Fall DLC 2023 Speculation

[SuzieSky]

To be fair, it definitely felt like that at the time the arid pack was announced. People were heavily dumping on it, with ire I have yet to see in such amounts on this forum.

And most interesting, I remember I did check the posts of the most vocal haters of the arid pack. There was a lot of intersection between vocal haters of the arid pack and staunch defenders of the Twilight pack, despite both packs having the same complaint of over focusing on a single group and region, and not living to the potential of their title. In addition, many of the arid pack haters were vocal supporters of stuff like the ABB, EBB, wisent, eurasian wolf, while actively dumping on the first pack to touch a largely empty region in the game because it is of no interest to them*.

So yes, it definitely felt like regional bias and entitlement, at least from some specific users.

*not saying anyone who wants more european or american animals is entitled, just pointing out the double standard that was prevalent when the arid pack came out.

I personally loved both packs. I said the Arid pack was my 4th favorite, and I would say twilight is about 8th. Maybe it will be 9th after Oceania? If I were recommending packs for new players, though, I would not recommend either pack for the valid criticism people were giving.

Twilight did not have enough requested animals, and it seemed a bit too heavy on the North American end. If that's for you, great, but I understand some people not being happy about it. I think my regional bias let me love the skunk, but it also made me hate the raccoon. I'd say they balance each other out. I'm happy we got a pack that featured plenty of small mammals. That was a hole in the base game roster.

The main reason why I would not recommend the Arid animal pack is because it doesn't offer as much gameplay-wise as other packs. It includes 4 mid-sized ungulates from arid regions of Africa, which is already covered with some choices for variety in the base game. Also, non-caprine, mid-sized ungulates tend to have pretty simple enclosures. I was actually very happy North Africa got some representation, and I did think it was lacking. It does add an African rhino for those who haven't gotten one yet, and the sand cat and porcupine are cool and different. I love having these animals as choices for African sections. They are pretty common in zoos and important conservation species. I love it.

The Oceania pack's main draw for me is similar to Twilight's; it has a lot of unique small critters. None of these animals were in my personal top 25, and I'm still a bit sad about the missing tree roo and echidna. I still like the pack though, and I'm really happy Oceania, and especially New Zealand, got some much needed stuff. I'm also happy for all of the people that wanted the devil, and seeing the community happy makes me happy. It looks like a fun set of animals to build for. Yay, more critters!

 

[ElectricMonk]

Bactriab camels live in central asia, dromedaries live in MENA.

Regarding the flamingo, that is something we haven't discussed a lot in the forum because we don't have flying birds (rip ), but flamingos are migratory.
View attachment 367308

As the map shows, they only cross MENA in very specific locations in very specific times of the year, and are not permanent or even breeding residents of the area (except for apparently 3 recent breeding sites in very specific locations in the UAE).

There are permanent flamingo populations elsewhere in their range, but not in MENA.

So the question is how do we consider the ranges of migratory birds, from which we currently only have 2 (flaningo amd crane).

Either way, they are not permanent residents of MENA or animals adapted to living in the region in any meaningful way. So you can count them if you wajt but they don't really represent the region should you make a middle east section.

Can i ask how you're defining MENA?...

European badger, red fox, grey wolf, red deer are all found in Iraq. Fallow deer could be arguably included too.

In any case, even under your definition (whatever it is), Nutrit said only until the Arid Pack, so 3 still isn't correct - you noted NA: 4(3), ME: 2(3), so double what they said (excluding exhibits).

 

[SuzieSky]

Twilight did not have enough requested animals, and it seemed a bit too heavy on the North American end. If that's for you, great, but I understand some people not being happy about it. I think my regional bias let me love the skunk, but it also made me hate the raccoon.

Also, side note about the red fox, if anyone is interested:

While NA did have a population for thousands of years, it was only a taiga animal until it started appearing in temperate zones in colonial times. Formerly, the only temperate fox was the grey fox. The assumption for hundreds of years was that European settlers brought red foxes here for the fur trade and they subsequently took over. I grew up learning about them as invasive species in my region. There were even programs to help people identify "European" red foxes and sadly exterminate them.

Molecular genetics has only very recently disproved this theory. They were North American foxes the entire time, and they just thrived better near colonial and modern settlements. I was confused about this way back when we were discussing possibilities for a woodlands pack, and thought of them as an invasive species in my region but a good pick for Europe and color morphs. Plenty of maps with their ranges listed them as an invasive species for at least parts of North America. I didn't hear about the study until more recently. This might be a reason some people were against it.

 

[yoav_r]

Can i ask how you're defining MENA?...

European badger, red fox, grey wolf, red deer are all found in Iraq. Fallow deer could be arguably included too.

In any case, even under your definition (whatever it is), Nutrit said only until the Arid Pack, so 3 still isn't correct - you noted NA: 4(3), ME: 2(3), so double what they said (excluding exhibits).

Was specifically talking about the desert regions of MENA, from a biogeographical perspective. Biogeographically the temperate regions of MENA are in the same regions as europe, even if geopolitical maps say otherwise.

 

[Chuditch]

The complaints on paper were very similar:

• Not living up to the name - people expected full on nocturnal features and animals from Twilight, and a more global coverage of arid regions from Arid
• Too much focus on one group and region - north american carnivorans for Twilight, african ungulates for Arid
• From said group, too similar species - large flat habitats for arid ungulates, small forest habitats for twilight carnivorans
• One standout animal that took a lot of effort to model and animate - bat, porcupine
• One cute oddball - wombat, sand cat

So a very symmetrical situation.

I agree that the Twilight Pack and Arid Animal Pack share a lot of similarities, and I expressed my mixed feelings in regards to both - Twilight was too heavy on small omnivorous carnivorans that occur in North America, and the Arid Animal Pack was too heavy on ungulates that occur in/adjacent to North Africa (although at least they were more varied in niche than the Twilight Pack carnivorans). If I appeared to be less harsh on the Twilight Pack, that'd only be because it had my new favourite habitat animal (wombat) and my new favourite exhibit animal (fruit bat), although of course this is no longer the case for either:

To be clear, North Africa and the Middle East getting a dedicated expansion is not my main issue with the pack. It's not the most important region for me personally but I think how well it was fleshed out was great! My main issues are just that it presented itself as a biome pack rather than a regional pack and failed to live up to that, and that I would have rathered seeing more diverse representation in the form of animals like the Hamadryas baboon, African spurred tortoise and rock hyrax rather than it being dominated by ungulates.

In any case, I'm pretty tired of talking about the Arid Animal Pack, as I'm sure most of us are. It's definitely not my least favourite pack, there's some things I really like in it (dromedary and porcupine my beloved), and I'm more than ready to just move on and stop having to repeat the same points over and over.

 

[ElectricMonk]

Was specifically talking about the desert regions of MENA, from a biogeographical perspective. Biogeographically the temperate regions of MENA are in the same regions as europe, even if geopolitical maps say otherwise.

Fair enough, but, if that's the defintion (Desert regions of MENA only), then the appropriate comparison isn't with other regions (e.g., Oceania) as whole units, its with each of the bioregions of each of those regions. On that basis, Arid MENA was better represented than Arid areas of many other regions prior to the Arid pack.

Edit: To clarify, all of this is in response to Nutrit's claim that

"North Africa and the Middle East literally had representation of only 3 species before the Arid pack so it was the most underrepresented region in the game."

which is just wrong.

 

[CharlieXGaming]

Also I'd just like to say the name of this thread is "Fall DLC 2023 Speculation" make of that what you will.

 

[YesIndeed]

Can i ask how you're defining MENA?...

European badger, red fox, grey wolf, red deer are all found in Iraq. Fallow deer could be arguably included too.

In any case, even under your definition (whatever it is), Nutrit said only until the Arid Pack, so 3 still isn't correct - you noted NA: 4(3), ME: 2(3), so double what they said (excluding exhibits).

I have actually made a red deer and flamingo shared habitat in my zoos Arabian section before lol.

 

[becks474]

I still do not understand some of the frequently repeated problems some people do have with the Twilight Pack. The pack gave us 4 (Out of 5, Red Fox was the only "Clone" and even it became a good tratement by various variants and also a unique walking animation) unique looking animals, a new feature and even two animals within the Top 20 (Wombat, Red Fox). I also do not really understand the NA complaints. There were 2 out 5 animals which I personally locate primarily in NA. The Red Fox is as Well an European and Asian and even North African animal as it is North American. And as I live in Europe I think mainly of Europe regarding the Red Fox. The Conservation Pack for example also gave us 3 animals from Asia.
Do not get me wrong. It is surely okay not to like the animal selection of the pack in general. I can understand when people say animals were to niche or that we only got smaller animals or to much Carnivorans. But for me it is not really a NA 2.0 pack and the animal selection was more unique than it was with a lot of other packs.

 

[Chuditch]

We really are just going to cycle through every controversial pack in this thread aren’t we lol. I’d rather discuss the actual Fall 2023 DLC.

 

[DarthQuell]

We really are just going to cycle through every controversial pack in this thread aren’t we lol. I’d rather discuss the actual Fall 2023 DLC.

So, let's start with how controversial the base game was

No seriously, I don't know why we keep bringing up past packs instead of talking about the new Oceania DLC. Like, I'm personally curious if Tassie devils could climb trees and/or climbing structures

 

[CharlieXGaming]

We really are just going to cycle through every controversial pack in this thread aren’t we lol. I’d rather discuss the actual Fall 2023 DLC.

For God Sakes YES. We just got a new pack released two days ago and I've seen barely any comments about it when theres so much to talk about. A thread could even be made for anyone that can point out pieces we may have missed or just turn this thread into a fall DLC appreciation. Certainly a better topic to discuss than the one going on before.

 

[CharlieXGaming]

No seriously, I don't know why we keep bringing up past packs instead of talking about the new Oceania DLC. Like, I'm personally curious if Tassie devils could climb trees and/or climbing structures

I could see them using climbing structures, maybe not trees though.
Edit: Just looked up their climbing tree abilities, maybe they will be able to, idk I really don't know much about any of the new creatures.

 

[SuzieSky]

I want to see guests taking selfies with grinning quokkas through the habitat bubble. That is what I hope for most out of this pack.

 

[DarthQuell]

I could see them using climbing structures, maybe not trees though.
Edit: Just looked up their climbing tree abilities, maybe they will be able to, idk I really don't know much about any of the new creatures.

Well, the reason I ask is because I recall, when I was younger, a Wild Kratts episode about Tasmanian devils, and I remember the little baby Tassie devils (are they called joeys?) climbing up trees, so I was curious if they'd be able to also in-game and if adults could, also

 

[Chuditch]

Well, the reason I ask is because I recall, when I was younger, a Wild Kratts episode about Tasmanian devils, and I remember the little baby Tassie devils (are they called joeys?) climbing up trees, so I was curious if they'd be able to also in-game and if adults could, also

Young devils are good climbers, but adult devils aren’t. I imagine they’ll just be terrestrial in-game.

 

[CharlieXGaming]

Well, the reason I ask is because I recall, when I was younger, a Wild Kratts episode about Tasmanian devils, and I remember the little baby Tassie devils (are they called joeys?) climbing up trees, so I was curious if they'd be able to also in-game and if adults could, also

Ah yes Wild Kratts, the famous kids show that held together my appreciation for animals and wildlife. That show was the best.

 

[CharlieXGaming]

I also haven’t seen any appreciation for the music in the announce trailer. It’s flipping amazing! I love how they keep twisting the conservation pack music.

 

[DarthQuell]

Ah yes Wild Kratts, the famous kids show that held together my appreciation for animals and wildlife. That show was the best.

For an educational kids show, it's very entertaining, and this coming from somebody who dislikes most educational kids shows nowadays for being annoying and cringe.
As a young adult, I would totally rewatch Wild Kratts

 

[YesIndeed]

I agree that the Twilight Pack and Arid Animal Pack share a lot of similarities, and I expressed my mixed feelings in regards to both - Twilight was too heavy on small omnivorous carnivorans that occur in North America, and the Arid Animal Pack was too heavy on ungulates that occur in/adjacent to North Africa (although at least they were more varied in niche than the Twilight Pack carnivorans). If I appeared to be less harsh on the Twilight Pack, that'd only be because it had my new favourite habitat animal (wombat) and my new favourite exhibit animal (fruit bat), although of course this is no longer the case for either:

To be clear, North Africa and the Middle East getting a dedicated expansion is not my main issue with the pack. It's not the most important region for me personally but I think how well it was fleshed out was great! My main issues are just that it presented itself as a biome pack rather than a regional pack and failed to live up to that, and that I would have rathered seeing more diverse representation in the form of animals like the Hamadryas baboon, African spurred tortoise and rock hyrax rather than it being dominated by ungulates.

In any case, I'm pretty tired of talking about the Arid Animal Pack, as I'm sure most of us are. It's definitely not my least favourite pack, there's some things I really like in it (dromedary and porcupine my beloved), and I'm more than ready to just move on and stop having to repeat the same points over and over.

I wish some more niches were represented cause I don't expect us to get much more North african stuff after this. It really just annoys me that we have 7 ungulates for North africa and 6 for the whole of Asia.