[POLL] PvE, PvP, PvAll - What is the playstyle you want in ED?
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I have always played on PVE servers in online games, I tried Eve for a few months but the soon got fed up with the ganking.
I dont mind the odd bit of PVP but I want the choice, I dont want to log on for a quiet bit of play, maybe doing some mining only to end up being ganked and to use an old term from Everquest having to do a corpse run and find the last hours game time has been wasted.
People who gank tend to be of a similar mindset, and seem to thrive on it, I have heard them rabbit on in chat and if the victims of the ganking complain they feel that they have achieved extra brownie points for the day especially if it ends in a swearing match.
I realise its a diffcult balance for the Dev team but in a game like ED if I fly into an Anarchy system I expect to be ganked from time to time but what I would hope is that if im in a civilized system the penalties for ganking are such that the gankers are forced out to the fringes by the boys in Blue Vipers
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I dont mind the odd bit of PVP but I want the choice, I dont want to log on for a quiet bit of play, maybe doing some mining only to end up being ganked and to use an old term from Everquest having to do a corpse run and find the last hours game time has been wasted.
People who gank tend to be of a similar mindset, and seem to thrive on it, I have heard them rabbit on in chat and if the victims of the ganking complain they feel that they have achieved extra brownie points for the day especially if it ends in a swearing match.
I realise its a diffcult balance for the Dev team but in a game like ED if I fly into an Anarchy system I expect to be ganked from time to time but what I would hope is that if im in a civilized system the penalties for ganking are such that the gankers are forced out to the fringes by the boys in Blue Vipers
H
I agree the penalties and response time in core systems must be severe and quick, like the difference in police response times in the developed countries versus a developing country.
Maybe in the core systems there can be police buoys or satellites to act like big brother and keep an eye on potential crims
Everything, a good mix of PvE and PvP with as little restrictions as possible. It would be superb if we can have all.
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The poll is missing an option!
I agree and the survey is missing this option!
I've been playing online games before there were PC's and been ganked (interesting word never saw it before today - guess my age is showing LOL) and lost everything - it isn't fun... and I've quit playing games because of it. I have also seen what should have been really great games ruined because of it!
If these types are allowed to exist they should be kept in their own little part of the 'Verse and have it clearly marked with appropriate warnings for those foolish enough to enter. There should also be serious and rapid enforcement/penalties for those who try to play that type of game outside of that area!
I enjoy playing against real people AND well designed AI, so a mix would be great - but those who will be jerks have to be contained or controlled in such a way as to keep the game fun for everyone - otherwise they will kill it...
I agree and the survey is missing this option!
I've been playing online games before there were PC's and been ganked (interesting word never saw it before today - guess my age is showing LOL) and lost everything - it isn't fun... and I've quit playing games because of it. I have also seen what should have been really great games ruined because of it!
If these types are allowed to exist they should be kept in their own little part of the 'Verse and have it clearly marked with appropriate warnings for those foolish enough to enter. There should also be serious and rapid enforcement/penalties for those who try to play that type of game outside of that area!
I enjoy playing against real people AND well designed AI, so a mix would be great - but those who will be jerks have to be contained or controlled in such a way as to keep the game fun for everyone - otherwise they will kill it...
Key word "little" here. Don't make it like Eve where all the interesting part of the universe is in gank central and you can't do anything useful in "safe"-ish zones. Make the PvP lawless areas available for those who want to partake, but make it optional to go there, not essential for any reason other than to PvP. i.e. don't make a PvP area and then put a load of juicy PvE missions or the "best" profitable trade routes in the same area - otherwise the PvP isn't optional, it's required if you want to make the most of the rest (non-PvP) parts of the game.
Basically, the PvP should exist for those who want it, but be completely optional for those who don't, with no "progress" penalty accompanying avoiding PvP.
risk vs. reward, never heard about it huh?
It's that little thing which has gone missing in MMOs for the last decade because devs catered to the safety double net crowd with restrictions and artificial barriers everywhere.
You want some small pirate space where everyone is a pirate so they can pirate each other and can't harm you? Go play the offline version or on a private server with likeminded people.
People like you always cause a gamey, watered down experience for the majority, will this be a online persistent universe or not? If so, the safe zone needs to be in some core systems, if you travel out into the wild where everything can happen, the rewards needs to be A LOT higher for the folks going there, taking a risk than for the ones only sailing around in little carebear land.
After all these years I would have been happy with a single player experience and to be honest that is how am probably going to spend most of my time.
The opportunity to play with my close friends is great however and something I want to at least try out.
My only concern with PvP is due to current online 'competitive' games simply descend into p***ing contests, I much prefer co-operative play.
The opportunity to play with my close friends is great however and something I want to at least try out.
My only concern with PvP is due to current online 'competitive' games simply descend into p***ing contests, I much prefer co-operative play.
Sorry, with an attitude coming across like that, is it any surprise people don't want to inhabit an open-PvP galaxy with you? I could make a cheap shot about your nick and how appropriate it seems to be, but that'd be, well, cheap. Oh darn, I just made it, never mind.
Is it really such a big deal if a PvEer can get the same ingame "stuff" (worthless bits and bytes) as you if they never had to shoot another player to get it? Why is PvP somehow "better" and must be rewarded "higher" than PvE? This isn't a competitive e-peen-sport, it's a space game... it's supposed to be fun, for everyone.
You do realise, anyway, that your competitive ego will have to deal with PvEers having the same fancy ships as yourself, as they'll get stuff solo-online then parade it around Lave in multiplayer. I'd just much rather play in a big open Galaxy with people, not solo, and not against people - cooperative rather than competitive. If that makes me a softy carebear liberal treehugging hippy, great, I'd rather be that than the alternative.
You're concerned about splitting the user base by having separate PvP vs PvE servers / groups / whatever; but you also think that "most" players love to PvP. Isn't that a bit inconsistent? Surely if you're confident that most players would choose to PvP then you've nothing to worry about from having separate PvE servers - right? It's not like you gain anything "forcing" PvE players into a PvP-centric game; they just won't come in the first place and FD will lose the players entirely.
Seriously, let's all stop personalising the argument. Some people like PvP. Some don't. Let people play the game they want to play, whilst you play the one you want. We can all have it all, PvPers can PvP, PvEers can PvE, where's the issue? It's a GAME. Fun. Relaxation. Doing what you want to do and not what you don't. Don't go comparing and worrying about how the player next door got his whizzy ship and how it's not fair because you walked uphill twice backwards to get yours 'cos you're hardcore; who cares?
A good mix of PvP and PvE for me. Not believe that the majority of real players will be there just to play of the laser. The majority will not want to get shot and take care of their own affairs. PvP will bring the reality and the unforeseen in the game. PvE we will make appreciate the work of Frontier for social exchanges and fights with npc.
Ideally I'd like to not be able to tell the difference between a human commander and an AI commander - which would kinda make the whole argument irrelevant, as I wouldn't be able to tell which is occurring anyway. I'll be treating both the same whatever, and if some wacky commander decides to shoot me I'll shoot back.
I'm tempted to bring out my paper here, but...
Risk vs. reward is something that's always been "missing" from MMOs, simply because it's something that doesn't work in multiplayer.
It works on an individual level, where riskier tasks give greater rewards, but applying it to multiplayer situations just magnifies any differences in skill level. Someone who's slightly better at the game will consistently get better rewards, so will have a significant advantage, which is precisely the opposite of what you want to do in order to maximise enjoyment in the game.
Alternatively, if you're going to apply risk vs. reward to a multiplayer scenario, you have to take each players' skill level into account too - for someone who's useless at combat, attacking someone is MUCH riskier than it is for someone who's good at combat, so clearly it should yield much higher rewards.
Games necessarily have to be balanced in order to be fun, and if combat becomes that dominating in the game then those who aren't good at it cease to enjoy it (additionally people who are TOO GOOD at it also cease to enjoy it - it becomes a trivial exercise). Rather than say, "tough, don't play the game" in a game where you're supposed to be able to do a whole range of things, not just combat, giving players the option to reduce that part of the game can only be a positive.
Hopefully the bounty system will sort out that aspect, but we'll have to see...
I'm tempted to bring out my paper here, but...
Risk vs. reward is something that's always been "missing" from MMOs, simply because it's something that doesn't work in multiplayer.
It works on an individual level, where riskier tasks give greater rewards, but applying it to multiplayer situations just magnifies any differences in skill level. Someone who's slightly better at the game will consistently get better rewards, so will have a significant advantage, which is precisely the opposite of what you want to do in order to maximise enjoyment in the game.
Alternatively, if you're going to apply risk vs. reward to a multiplayer scenario, you have to take each players' skill level into account too - for someone who's useless at combat, attacking someone is MUCH riskier than it is for someone who's good at combat, so clearly it should yield much higher rewards.
Games necessarily have to be balanced in order to be fun, and if combat becomes that dominating in the game then those who aren't good at it cease to enjoy it (additionally people who are TOO GOOD at it also cease to enjoy it - it becomes a trivial exercise). Rather than say, "tough, don't play the game" in a game where you're supposed to be able to do a whole range of things, not just combat, giving players the option to reduce that part of the game can only be a positive.
Hopefully the bounty system will sort out that aspect, but we'll have to see...
I like having the option to PvP if I want too, not at the discretion of another player.
PvP and PvE realms don't seemingly co-exist too well as you have to have a pre-defined area for each which on one side breaks the immersion but offers players the sanctuary for being non-PvP focused.
The PvE'er has as much right to expect to not have to PvP in a game as a PvP'er has a right to not have to PvE all the time.
Saying one form of gaming style is worse and detrimental than the other as it doesn't fit what you like gives less credence & validity to your argument OP.
Both game styles will be in the game but marrying them together so that both can be played to a near equal enjoyment will be both hard and to some an impossible task, as you can't please everyone.
PvP and PvE realms don't seemingly co-exist too well as you have to have a pre-defined area for each which on one side breaks the immersion but offers players the sanctuary for being non-PvP focused.
The PvE'er has as much right to expect to not have to PvP in a game as a PvP'er has a right to not have to PvE all the time.
Saying one form of gaming style is worse and detrimental than the other as it doesn't fit what you like gives less credence & validity to your argument OP.
Both game styles will be in the game but marrying them together so that both can be played to a near equal enjoyment will be both hard and to some an impossible task, as you can't please everyone.
PvP is player vs player - it means two players can attack each other online
PvE is player vs environment - meaning you only fight computer generated opponents
So PvAll is player vs all - you can be attacked and attack everyone
I'd like to see PvAll but regulated by police. in the more lawful systems attacking another ship would see a quicker and stronger police response. That way pirating and pvp would be self restricted to the less policed and lawless systems.
And what would be result? That there would be plethora of empty areas where gankers hover hoping that someone strays there for first (and last) time.
And civilized space would be stuck with too much traffic because people do not enjoy getting ganked.
Better simply install a simple switch which makes PvP disappear for those who do not want to partake on it.
This way action spreads out into the universe.
There will simply be too many systems for this to happen though. I think there's another thread predicting a 1 in 10,000 chance of running into another online player judged on the amount of systems - this probably doesn't take into account that everyone will start in the same corner of the galaxy, but still...
And switching PvP off would basically kill Pirating and Bounty Hunting as careers.
As for the more lawless systems, well, as Fromhell said high risk high reward
If you want to benefit from the higher priced markets of the unsafer systems, you'll have to battle the pirates to get there. It was the way of the earlier games, don't see it changing for ED. If you don't want to fight the pirates, then perhaps staying to either the more lawful systems and/or the more remote systems would be a safer choice.Out of those 10 000 systems how many actually hold anything of any interest?
Also, when you hop into a system, you apparently also get placed in same instance as others if there are others present.
You can pirate and bountyhunt NPC characters. Making piracy and BH would be professions purely living off other players is bad idea. Very bad idea.
Let me explain this in simple terms. Vast majority of players do not enjoy having the fruits of their hard work destroyed by ******* griefers.
If they are forced into that, they quit.
EVE online has 500 000 subscriptions. It is pathetically little, as EVE has essentially entire spaceflight MMO-niche cornered.
They have practically 0 competition, and still only manage to scrounge up 500k subscriptions, of which unknown amount are in hands of same people.
WoW, which has competition all over (and has well populated PvE-servers), has millions of subscriptions.
As for the more lawless systems, well, as Fromhell said high risk high reward
Difference with earlier games was that you were not up against group of griefers who are set up to kill your ship. Comparison to AI is quite moot.
And Fromhell does not grasp, that there is no reward when griefers have systems locked up, as they WILL have if they are permitted. Effectively removing those systems from game, as well as any systems which can only be accessed through them.
Simply put, forced PvP is so horrible idea that it should be burned, trashed, buried to the ground and blown up with a nuke.
Definitely optional: those who wish to play PvP should by all means have the right to do so, but the players who prefer a PvE type of game (and there's a lot of us) should have the possibility to go about their business without being harassed.
For me (and, I presume, for most casual gamers) a free for all PvP environment would mean that I would have to dedicate a lot more time to ED than I intend to in order to not get thrashed by hardcore gamers who play ten hours a day. Don't get me wrong, I've already bought a digital copy of the game, currently considering an upgrade to the boxed version, and I can't wait to try it, but I'm not going to detract time from my job or my girlfriend just so I can afford that extra dozen shield generators and a 100 MW laser to keep gankers at bay.
The "make core systems safe and outer systems lawless" option also seems very unappealing to me: one of the best aspects of ED's predecessors was the feeling of freedom given by the possibility to explore the galaxy. Being confined to the core systems out of fear of being blasted out of space by other players would greatly diminish that feeling of freedom and would thus result in me enjoying the game a lot less, as would anything that could hinder my possibility to go wherever I please.
In short: make it optional. When in doubt, always let the player choose.
For me (and, I presume, for most casual gamers) a free for all PvP environment would mean that I would have to dedicate a lot more time to ED than I intend to in order to not get thrashed by hardcore gamers who play ten hours a day. Don't get me wrong, I've already bought a digital copy of the game, currently considering an upgrade to the boxed version, and I can't wait to try it, but I'm not going to detract time from my job or my girlfriend just so I can afford that extra dozen shield generators and a 100 MW laser to keep gankers at bay.
The "make core systems safe and outer systems lawless" option also seems very unappealing to me: one of the best aspects of ED's predecessors was the feeling of freedom given by the possibility to explore the galaxy. Being confined to the core systems out of fear of being blasted out of space by other players would greatly diminish that feeling of freedom and would thus result in me enjoying the game a lot less, as would anything that could hinder my possibility to go wherever I please.
In short: make it optional. When in doubt, always let the player choose.
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Just on this "chance to encounter a player" note, I think the maths has gone wrong on that one because they're using "all the stars in the galaxy" as the area players are spread out over. It won't be (at all) like that, probably ever. The inhabited area will start out comparitively very very small and will only slowly expand.
I think from reading about FD's plans for explorers that you're only likely to be able to get a little way from inhabited systems before having to head back; there aren't going to be crazy people heading way out into the galaxy any time soon, just because of fuel and equipment durability limits.
I'm not a fan of this system myself - would prefer you could go as far out as you wanted, given time and fuel scoops - but it seems to be the approach FD are taking; probably to limit the thinning out of the population.
Anyway, I suspect the player concentration will be pretty high for the forseeable future, so you're likely to very often meet a player pirate in a frontier system given the way instances are going to work. And I imagine (again, to encourage "interaction" i.e. pirating) FD will tweak hyperspace emergence points so that you appear relatively close to wherever the other player(s) are.
Pirating is part of Elite. Let's be honest, I'm sure we've all dabbled in it whilst playing previous games. The difference now is that the Pirate could be a real person instead of an AI and this makes the Pirate more intimidating because s/he would be more intelligent and any loss you suffer is no longer to yourself but to someone else.
I hope systems are in place about actions and consequence but I hate the idea of being able to see other players and not being able to attack or be attacked by them. This is why I think there are options to have friends groups within the game. These groups would exist in the same Galaxy but never see or interact with each other - unless I've misunderstood this option.
Personally, I want that dry mouthed, wet crotched twitchy feeling when playing but I understand some people want a less extreme experience.
I want victory from the edge of death, grazed teeth from lucky escapes and a sense of achievement. I want money and I want glory. I'm a Bounty Hunter and I need Pirates like the Lion needs the Wildebeest.
Of course, I might change my mind after having my hide tanned repeatedly but we'll have to see.
I hope systems are in place about actions and consequence but I hate the idea of being able to see other players and not being able to attack or be attacked by them. This is why I think there are options to have friends groups within the game. These groups would exist in the same Galaxy but never see or interact with each other - unless I've misunderstood this option.
Personally, I want that dry mouthed, wet crotched twitchy feeling when playing but I understand some people want a less extreme experience.
I want victory from the edge of death, grazed teeth from lucky escapes and a sense of achievement. I want money and I want glory. I'm a Bounty Hunter and I need Pirates like the Lion needs the Wildebeest.
Of course, I might change my mind after having my hide tanned repeatedly but we'll have to see.
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