No Single Player offline Mode then?

[Hermit]

It is really hard to find the words now...

LOL! You did well enough in that post, mate. Have some rep from me

 

[cptzipzap]

there are 400 bn systems. lets say we have 200.000 explorers - that makes 2 m systems for every explorer.

if you take 1 minute to fly and cartograph each system - you would need ~1400 days constant gameplay until you would explore "someone elses system"... of course the chances are higher at the beginning, but lets say there are wormholes or other tricks and the explorers are spread out.. (the space is 3 dimensional) I tthink it will already be unrealistic after 10-20 jumps that you see aan already visitied system.. but you can calc that

this goal will never be reached. even if elite still runs in 10 years (and I hope so), there will still be unexplored systems.

 

[piotrr]

Oh well.

We will always have Pioneer.

http://pioneerspacesim.net/

 

[poet1960]

Ah, but it will have it's own unique seeded PG universe. Something which FD has somehow forgotten how to do with a single player game

Well yeah. The AI is getting pretty smart as well. Darn things might take over skynet.

 

[littleminxundr]

Thanks for pointing this out. Very clever how they covered themselves in this manner. Lesson learned, wont get fooled again.

Would you believe that I actually hesitated when I read the blurb. But I was like, "Meh. It has offline, there's an active and recent thread, replete with a Frontier-mod, positive that the offline is still in. I can buy this now and go offline upon release, the fed-rep will be awesome for when I do have online-access."

Yes, I actually factored the fed-rep in; when you have little access to online, anything that makes online life easier is a bonus. (It's also why I don't ask for a refund, I was planning to play the game online when able. I also never thought that I could take my offline profile online.)

What irks me bad is the fact that all this research was for naught. I could've just walzed in, press buy blindly and go 'oops' looking for the offline later on, lol!!

 

[piotrr]

there are 400 bn systems. lets say we have 200.000 explorers - that makes 2 m systems for every explorer.

if you take 1 minute to fly and cartograph each system - you would need ~1400 days constant gameplay.

this goal will never be reached. even if elite still runs in 10 years (and I hope so), there will still be unexplored systems.

Yes, there will be, at the far end of a long branch of easy to medium hyperspace jumps. The easy, short ones go first. You can't just go by the raw numbers, you must also think in terms of pedestrian paths of least resistance.

 

[Hermit]

Well yeah. The AI is getting pretty smart as well. Darn things might take over skynet.

Yep, he's doing a man's work is Josh Parnell I hope he eventually releases it on GOG, and shows the FD team how it really can be done!

 

[jamotide]

It would be perfectly possible for FD to provide a copy of the elite client with no DRM, maybe even have the tutorials offline, but in order to play the game you need to connect (and login to) the FD servers to get essential game data.

That is not enough, for it to be DRM free, we would need to be able to set up our own server OR the servers would be accessible without any athentication.

 

[-c-s-]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous

Seems like they are delivering just what they said, in terms of DRM and kickstarter.

Also from the FAQ

Will I need to connect to a server to play?
Update! The above is the intended single player experience. However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server.

Seems like they are NOT delivering just what they said in terms of always-on DRM and kickstarter

 

[Grumpy181155]

FD said I could not get a refund. I had bought the pre-release and beta access. I had originally asked for a refund of both which in hindsight was not really justified. I have asked them to reconsider refunding just the game.

If they decide to implement a single player offline mode then I will buy it again but I am not holding my breath based on the interviews I have heard.

 

[TheSpackman]

Of course if that was true, and if their explanation that whatever their server does couldn't possibly be done by the same server VM more or less running locally to the client PC is also true, which I don't believe for a moment, then they could remove the requirement to log on at all to play single user online. Just have the server respond to any ED client connecting to it. The server doesn't need to know the name of a user to service his or her client's requests, so make online solo play DRM free that way...

It'd be interesting to see FD's response to that suggestion, which would defuse jthe whole DRM issue at a stroke!

I'm pretty sure that'll never happen, though...

It's a nice point. I'd question how the game deals with a unique user without identifying them. It may be possible and a nice solution to kill the DRM conspiracies for sure. Devil in the detail.

 

[cptzipzap]

Yes, there will be, at the far end of a long branch of easy to medium hyperspace jumps. The easy, short ones go first. You can't just go by the raw numbers, you must also think in terms of pedestrian paths of least resistance.

you can calculate how many jumps you have to make until its fairly unrealistic that a system has already be discovered.


lets say each system is connected to 4 systems and the height of the gal. is? I dont really know.. but at least 100 systems i think and to the center on the plane its even more.. so its 4^100 (or more) - possibilities rise fast

I say it is pretty fast - the space is 3 d and even if the bubble only spreads out half in the direction of the center of the universe.. then take a 20 Ly Asp and there will be pretty much all possible paths

 

[jamotide]

Thanks for pointing this out. Very clever how they covered themselves in this manner. Lesson learned, wont get fooled again.

Nope, just because you "also" get something else, doesn't mean you didnt buy it as well.

 

[1500]

Also from the FAQ



Seems like they are NOT delivering just what they said in terms of always-on DRM and kickstarter

Incorrect, that is about offline, not DRM. I linked the section on DRM, the current ED follows that.

 

[Zuikaku]

That's true enough. However, us kickstarter folks were asked to pay up front, to trust in FD to produce what they told us they would. If EVERYONE had played it safe... No game.

And that trust have been broken...

 

[piotrr]

I say it is pretty fast - the space is 3 d and even if the bubble only spreads out half in the direction of the center of the universe.. then take a 20 Ly Asp and there will be pretty much all possible paths

By "center", you did consider that the galaxy is a disc rather than a sphere, and not too thick a disc either - right?

 

[slipperysquid]

I know this will probably have been said a couple of hundred pages back but with the offline part of the game gone then you're completely at the mercy of the
servers.
How many times have you come home from work etc to play a game and the servers are down or your internet has thrown a fit... Or my favourite, they pull the

servers because they have the sequel coming out. Tis a bit pants to be honest.

 

[kwh]

So give the solo game away?
-
just because a piece of software requires an online service to run (say twitter) doesn't mean it has DRM.
-
It would be perfectly possible for FD to provide a copy of the elite client with no DRM, maybe even have the tutorials offline, but in order to play the game you need to connect (and login to) the FD servers to get essential game data.

They claim you need to connect to the shared universe. They don't need you to login. They want you to login, sure - that's DRM. In an offline game you could hack your commander file to give yourself a billion credits if you wanted to, and why not, you are only affecting yourself. Why can't you do the same with solo online? Have the server just take your client's word for what ship you are in, where you are & how many credits you have? It's solo play, so if you want to cheat your way to a fully loaded Anaconda, who should care apart from you? In an offline game, nobody. In solo online, nobody _should_ care, but I bet your 'save file' is actually held on ED's servers and thus can't be hacked...

 

[Erna Jedermann]

this issue has escalated and FDs are doing everything to ruin their reputation.

phase 1:
-FDs : support us , we are planning multiplayer along with offline experience

phase 2:
-FDs : thanks for the support, multiplayer experience is really cool and exciting

phase 3:
-FDs : game is soon to be released. BTW, we scrapped offline mode but multiplayer experience is really cool and exciting

phase 4:
- offline community: Why? You have promised us offline mode, we have paid for it!
-FDs : offline is not good for you and is not making us happy. It was so "tough" decision for us but we have to cut something out and multiplayer experience is so exciting. Why are you not excited?!
- online community: We got what we wanted, so shut up

phase 5:
- offline community: we feel betrayed and can not enjoy the multiplayer for various reasons. Can we get the explanation and refund
-FDs : we'll pretend nothing is happening
- online community: Take the refund and shut up! You are ruining the game!

phase 6:
- offline community: can we get some answers on refunding and why offline mode was abandoned?
-FDs : It was a tough decision. But details are very secret. What is done is done! anyway, offline mode might work if we want it to work... maybe when servers are not going to be profitable any more. ofcourse, we'll give you a refund. Now, let's talk about new anaconda skins and how exciting multiplayer is!
- online community: lets build a stake and burn the offliners, they want to destroy everything

phase 7:
- offline community: hey, all refund requests have been denied
- FDs: let's pretend we did the right thing...
- online community: see, you like the game, so shut up!

Ofcourse, that is somewhat simplified.

anyway, the saddest thing is that FDs managed to split community in two. the ones that got what they wanted for their money. And the others , who feel let down, betrayed and basically decived. Some that have paid for the game will not be able to play it at all. The others are getting something they didn't want or backed at all.

but the most tragic thing is that FDs are not doing anything to live up to the reputation they have been carefully building all this time in with this wonderfull fan base. and some of the attacks and hate expressed by some comunity members toward the people that feel dissapointed and let down are particularly disturbing.

all of us wanted what we have paid for. Offline mode was promised to be integral part of the game. Those of you who are enjoying multiplayer, try to understand. for some of the players, your fellow Elite fans, multiplayer and online mods are either not enjoyable or not playable for various reasons. And just as you enjoy multiplayer we enjoy single player. we gave money for single player offline we planned to enjoy. Now with offline singleplayer gone, we have really got something we didn't wanted. Refunds, without any tricks and law excuses would be the least FDs could do, a sign of goodwill, to try to keep their reputation within community. And that is not about someone trying to destroy the game. It is about good customer service and support. That makes the difference between developers we coul'd trust and the ones we coul'd not. The fact that you got promised multiplayer and some other guys did not get promised single player does not entitle you to attack them or hate them. We have all supported the FDs for the things they have promised us. And nobody can tell me that single player offline mode is just a minor feature, cause it's not!

the whole thing about FDs promising single player offline ,then forcing players to like multiplayer, then finally scrapping single player offline before release and after fundraising is over, then wondering why people want single player and forcing fans again to like multiplayer with words and limiting their choices leaves a really bad taste in the mouth. and we even didn't mentioned refunds requests being refused.

FDs, what have happened to you?! the last 2 years I have been pointing you out as an example of how developers shoul'd work and treat their players. It is really hard to find the words now...

See JughedJones....that is what I want to say...and the reason while I wrote this gibberish.....to all the White Knights with the VISION.
If you stop to be emphatless and sarcastic I will it too...but where are White Knights there must be black one too.
Stop praising...start thinking...and lets work together.

 

[jamotide]

Incorrect, that is about offline, not DRM. I linked the section on DRM, the current ED follows that.

What you linked specifically says that you don't have to connect anywhere, unless you want to update or do multiplayer. (WHEN) That is NOT the current ED.