Sounds like it would be something that could be remedied by a coder more than it sounds like something I can fix on my current hardware then.
Can we have a honest chat about on foot conflict zones whats your opinion on difficulty?
- Thread starter Muzz UK
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Sounds like it would be something that could be remedied by a coder more than it sounds like something I can fix on my current hardware then.
We can't do much of anything about the game's underlying issues. All we can do is make sure whatever hardware and software we have handles those issues as gracefully as possible. Along those lines, I'm pointing out that the game responds well to improved memory subsystem performance, and that we do have a fair bit of control over this (uncore/LLC clocks can be increased, and most main memory has significant room for tuning beyond the out of box SPD/XMP settings).
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So I've done some testing.
Low - Easy to win with pistol best score 820 to 0
Med - Bit harder did find the smaller bases made a bit of difference best score 660 - 0
High - AI seems to keep up initially in big bases but drops off after 3rd or 4th point capture in the smaller bases I died twice but I still won about 495 - 0.
Low - Easy to win with pistol best score 820 to 0
Med - Bit harder did find the smaller bases made a bit of difference best score 660 - 0
High - AI seems to keep up initially in big bases but drops off after 3rd or 4th point capture in the smaller bases I died twice but I still won about 495 - 0.
for more of a challenge go hi g hi intensity and fight shieldless
you have to move from cover to cover
you have to move from cover to cover
I’ve just started doing them to unlock Hero Ferrari so focussing on Low intensity ones (as I understand I need to do 10 low zones for the unlock), they’re very easy. I guess I’m a bit OP, G3 Dominator (night vision and extra battery capacity), G4 Aphelion (no mods) and G3 AR-50 with stability. Haven’t “died” once in them and usually win with around 500-600 tickets left.
I’m hoping the high intensity ones are a bit more of a challenge
I’m hoping the high intensity ones are a bit more of a challenge
it's guaranteed. high CZs have much tougher opponents with much better equipment. You have mid CZ level equipment, you really need g5 for high CZ to match NPCs.
They should be. They're not harder in and of themselves, but if you put yourself in the wrong position, the damage output from the NPCs will see to you in short order.
Also, epic necro, @STRONTIUM DOG .
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I always go for the HICZs - the opponents are a lot tougher, but I disagree that you need G5 kit for them.
It helps a lot if you don't care about dying once or twice !
Yeah, I'd say G3 is the "minimum" you would want for a high CZ, I managed to complete them... reasonably well, with some caution applied, with that gear. Might've even preferred it as opposed to just stomping on the poor NPCs with fully upgraded and (though less meaningful/gameplay changing in Odyssey combat) engineered gear, which has led to me being kind of bored of the FPS show in human CZs, so my merc rank's been stuck at Deadeye for a while, though I intend to get it as the fifth Elite rank eventually. (Also haven't bothered hunting down or upgrading a basic Dominator and some weapons to level 3/4 to that end of making the CZs less of a stomping experience - unlikely to encounter rival players where I do them, at that, and not in it for PvP.)
And yes, I am well aware this is a necro. Not the worst zombie I've seen, though...
As others have said, it's not particularly challenging. GCZs with G1 gear are the most difficult, but this is a design issue, and not one with an easy solution: How do you balance foot pew pew when there is such a wide range of experience, devices and in-game gear? This is really important from the perspective of a BGS-oriented player who wants to make the biggest impact for the least time-investment. In those terms, it's far more efficient to just suck up the deaths - especially in default gear - and win the CZ. It's also easily one of the most lucrative careers in the early game. You might die five times per CZ, but make ~7mcr each time (the overall value of the bonds cashed each tick is also important). I'm currently on 500 million credits, mostly gained by making The Charge of the Light Brigade a thing again after 1,500 years.....
If one is playing with a controller and is not experienced with FPS, it is extremely difficult to make that an enjoyable experience while also making it fun for mouse and keyboard players, especially those with extensive experience of the genre.
Last I heard, competitive-mode Halo players use controllers. My kids no longer play Apex Legends because controller with aim assist is more effective than MKB. This suggests that it is impossible to 'balance' such things to the extent that it is only one's dexterity that matters.
In terms of specific criticisms of Odyssey GCZs, The bots don't sprint, they don't jump, and they don't navigate well. They also do massively stupid things like bunch up in the airlocks, where a shield grenade followed immediately with a frag can easily kill three.
I think FD could learn a great deal about combat from the mission design of Helldivers 2.
If one is playing with a controller and is not experienced with FPS, it is extremely difficult to make that an enjoyable experience while also making it fun for mouse and keyboard players, especially those with extensive experience of the genre.
Last I heard, competitive-mode Halo players use controllers. My kids no longer play Apex Legends because controller with aim assist is more effective than MKB. This suggests that it is impossible to 'balance' such things to the extent that it is only one's dexterity that matters.
In terms of specific criticisms of Odyssey GCZs, The bots don't sprint, they don't jump, and they don't navigate well. They also do massively stupid things like bunch up in the airlocks, where a shield grenade followed immediately with a frag can easily kill three.
I think FD could learn a great deal about combat from the mission design of Helldivers 2.
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At risk of going on an off-topic tangent, I feel like game devs have also recently(last few years, maybe) started going far overboard with controller aim assist to the point where it can actually become intrusive and contrary to the player's intent. EG you're aiming at a stationary target but the game sees a moving one and decides to pull your reticle along said moving target when it is not what you were trying to shoot at.
... but those points about the Odyssey bots also apply. I only see them sprint sometimes, and roofs are also their eternal enemy, it seems. Also had times where I just walked right up to them without any attempt to be stealthy and they wouldn't react. Even when shot at.
I disagree that G5 gear is needed for High ground CZ.
My normal CZ/Combat gear is:
The complete extent of my Ody upgrades/modifications since Odyssey release (been playing since day 4 or 5 after Ody 's release):
- The DOM was purchased at G3 with CMS, I upgraded to G4 and added the EAC mod.
- The EXEC was purchased at G3 with GR, I upgraded to G4.
- I have done no other upgrades or mods to any on foot gear beyond those above
- In some ways I wish I had not upgraded the Dom and Exec to G4.
In Protect Missions I usually always die. Its challenging and difficult and I prefer to increase my skills vs. using overpowered gear.
I currently see no need to make further upgrades to any of my on foot gear and haven't in almost a year, IIRC.
For reference, the last FPS games I played on any kind of regular basis were Duke Nukem 3D, Quake and Quake 2 in the late 90s/early 2000s.
Anyone who is interested can check out my on foot videos at the YouTube link in my signature below (for those who can see it). No commentary, no discussion, no tips or pointers, just gameplay.
Yeah. Just leave it as it now. Because, with all due respect, FDEV doesn't have neither experience or competence to balance FPS part in the game.
Of course that part needs balance tweaks and, more importantly, new content, but now i don't see the way devs could do any of that without making it more grindy or boring in the long run.
Not all that epic the thread is only a couple of years old.
The biggest thing is making sure you don't get caught out with a couple of enforcers or sharpshooters as a couple of hits from either of them can send you back to the respawn screen in short order.
opinion on difficulty: it's easy, even in G1 gear
what should fdev do to improve AI?: nothing, the effort would be so great for so little gain at this point. ask any programmer, making 20+ AI agents aware of obstacles in 3d and able to take advantage of them like a human isn't reasonable today.
AI is coming along and in a few years we'll get what OP seems to be asking: a real challenge from AI.
OP mentioned one critical thing: "I grew up playing CS 1.6". Yes... what made that so great? for once the other players in the game world were as smart as you and man did
that ever make CS addictive. you never knew where people would be, how they would dodge, they used sound to figure out where you were going, they figured out where you must be by the fact they'd rushed A and no one was there, etc, etc.
brains... we have them, NPCs don't.
Making on-foot battles harder today would be the age-old way of making the NPCs stronger than us to compensate, in my opinion not better.
Either the NPCs have to become other players (so synchronising random players games together) or the NPCs have to git gud. Automatic match-making isn't realistic, given each person is supposed to be going their own way.
So, wait until AI taxis can drive off-road at sunset without hitting anything and Elite NPCs will be good enough to take cover and coordinate well enough to take us down
what should fdev do to improve AI?: nothing, the effort would be so great for so little gain at this point. ask any programmer, making 20+ AI agents aware of obstacles in 3d and able to take advantage of them like a human isn't reasonable today.
AI is coming along and in a few years we'll get what OP seems to be asking: a real challenge from AI.
OP mentioned one critical thing: "I grew up playing CS 1.6". Yes... what made that so great? for once the other players in the game world were as smart as you and man did
that ever make CS addictive. you never knew where people would be, how they would dodge, they used sound to figure out where you were going, they figured out where you must be by the fact they'd rushed A and no one was there, etc, etc.
brains... we have them, NPCs don't.
Making on-foot battles harder today would be the age-old way of making the NPCs stronger than us to compensate, in my opinion not better.
Either the NPCs have to become other players (so synchronising random players games together) or the NPCs have to git gud. Automatic match-making isn't realistic, given each person is supposed to be going their own way.
So, wait until AI taxis can drive off-road at sunset without hitting anything and Elite NPCs will be good enough to take cover and coordinate well enough to take us down
Even under the established constraints of video game AI, infantry NPCs in Odyssey could be a lot better. And they don't need to be as good as a human to be much better than they are now. Performance is already pretty rough in larger CZs though and those issues probably need to be addressed before more complex scripting would be practical.
I am reminded of the scene in Joe Kidd where he sends a ’red shirt’ across to the next cover and then says figured we were getting too close.
Ok ok ok.
Let’s be real here - if youve invested the time to max out suit upgrades and engineering, you’ve already more than burnt through the amount of time that you have any reasonable expectation to enjoy a little half COD match in space.
I just restarted playing this game, I’m probably 300-400 hours in. I made my first 100 million taking the Apex Taxi around and fighting in ground CZs because I wanted to try the Odyssey content and as a returning player I knew that small ships are not even worth flying.
So I like to think I’m fairly versed in the new player experience and the CZs.
The people saying they’re easy even at G1 gear are trolling or leaving out the part about how they were actually in a scarab the whole time. The people saying you should go back to the station are trying to sabotage the game mode.
If you spent 300 hours to fully upgrade and engineer ground gear, guess what - the CZs probably should be easy, because at G1 when it takes 3 full magazines to kill one guy, it’s pretty damn unfair.
The last thing FDev EVER needs is encouragement to make gameplay more difficult by scaling the numbers on the spreadsheet up to increase difficulty.
If you’re mad that at END GAME, the faux CoD match mini game isn’t hard enough, maybe you need to play an actual shooter - or better yet, throw on some G1 gear.