Celebrate Elite's Ruby Anniversary!

The catch here is that the £3.00 paint jobs back in 2014 were a pack of five, so the individual paints (not that you could buy them individually back then) cost about £0.60 at that point.

The move to ARX in 2019 then priced those basic paints individually generally at about 1600 ARX, or about £1.00 - so a doubling or so of the price per paint, but equal or cheaper if you only wanted 1-3 colours (which was probably the more common case)

And now the same paints (where they're still available at all) are 5000 ARX or £3.00 each, so 400% inflation over the nominal 2014 price per paint, and >200% inflation from the actual 2019 price per paint.



Of course, the game itself has gone the other way - ED used to cost £35 to buy (£47 in 2024 pounds) and was rarely on sale, it now costs £15 (or £11 in 2014 pounds) and is often on sale on Steam for £4. Similarly Odyssey started at £35 in 2021 and is now £10. Inflation is more complicated than "everything gets more expensive", after all.

If you spent £60 in 2021 you'd get the game + Odyssey + about 8000 ARX (so 1-5 cosmetics depending on type)
If you spend those 2021 £60 - inflation-adjusted, so nearer to 2024 £70 - in 2024 you'd get the game + Odyssey + about 85000 ARX (so 4-15 cosmetics depending on type) assuming you didn't wait for a sale.

So broadly the position is:
- if you want to spend a small amount, you can get more than before even with the price rises
- if you want to spend a large amount (and aren't buying lots of alts with it), eventually you get less than before
Obviously most of the people on the forums are the sort who previously spent a larger amount. But also obviously the forums aren't all that representative of players in general.
Thanks for that, I was going to mention the fact that the base game and expansion have been reduced in price so overall the game is a much better value than it was before to actually get in and play, but that doesn't really mean much to all who have already purchased the game, as everyone here I presume has. Maybe the best value proposition for those who want to support Frontier but balk at cosmetic prices is to purchase an alt commander, if they haven't already bought four (@Rat Catcher 😁 ), or one for a friend etc..
 
Is anybody else experiencing issues logging into the gamestore?

I can log into the frontier store (https://www.frontierstore.net) without problems, but when I try to "buy" the ruby decal it presents me with a new authentication site and the log in information for I used for the frontier store results in a message saying "Unknown User".

I have purchased cosmetics in the past, so it did work, but now it pretends to not know me.

The frontier store "My Products" page even shows me the cosmetics I bought, but it doesn't show any of the cosmetics for sale (I guess because it isn't the arx based store, but the normal currency store).

Going to the Arx store is possible, but then I'm not logged in and logging in doesn't work.

Help!
 
Regardless, most of these paints are both solid colors and adaptions of existing material. The cost of producing them has not gone up, it's gone down. They are nearly pure profit (negligible variable costs, no marginal costs) and the prices will fall at whatever level results in the most revenue.
However that may be, it is entirely irrelevant. All value attributed to anything that is primarily artistic in nature is entirely calculated on perceived value. A plain white t-shirt by a certain designer might cost £1,000, pretty much the same thing by a consumer clothing company might be £10, off a market stall they might be five for a fiver. Who's right, who's wrong? At the end of the day it doesn't matter if there's a market for every price point.

Frontier has certainly been in a rough patch recently and is a relatively smaller company, but the major stakeholders, who stand to benefit most in the good times, aren't the ones suffering in the lean times. Managerial decisions, made under pressure from those shareholders, are the prime cause of this game's issues, and the solution for the only people that matter (the shareholders, of course) appears to be aggressive monetization to extract maximal revenue while they can.
I won't say it can't be true (mostly due to crony corporatism and the too big to fail mantra that has seen taxpayers foot the bill for some major losses in the past) but I don't think it's necessarily, or likely, true in this instance. Hypothetically speaking, though a plausible scenario comparable to a company the size of Frontier, if someone invests £1m into a company when it is valued at a certain price per share and it loses 90% of that value, never to be regained, then that investor just lost £900,000, which I daresay is a bit more than the inconvenience which any of us has experienced as a games player due to it.
 
I just called you a very unkind name...
As long as it wasn't Chris Roberts, then we're good :p

I also bought ED/O for a friend, who has never played as due to a mini-stroke!
That sucks, I hope they recover enough to play! I did a similar thing, they never got past the tutorial before giving up, though they did warn me that they were more into third person games, and I think it was just the base game when it was on sale..
I'm thinking of buying a 5th from FD, just to get my Epic one on the FD launcher... ;)
I have the free Epic one that gathers digital dust and a second one bought from Frontier which is supposed to be my out in the black CMDR, though I haven't got around to it. However, seeing the lower prices makes me think that having another alt to act as a multicrew companion might be worth considering down the line.
 
Happy birthday Elite!!!!! ...from somewhere on my way to Colonia...

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However that may be, it is entirely irrelevant. All value attributed to anything that is primarily artistic in nature is entirely calculated on perceived value. A plain white t-shirt by a certain designer might cost £1,000, pretty much the same thing by a consumer clothing company might be £10, off a market stall they might be five for a fiver. Who's right, who's wrong? At the end of the day it doesn't matter if there's a market for every price point.

Your argument was that inflation substantially justifies the new cosmetics prices. I'm pointing out that inflation has nothing do do with their costs because they have almost no costs for these items. Surely there is overhead elsewhere that has increased in cost (or maybe not, if they've been firing people and buying cheaper AWS packages), but the perceived value of the final product is neither here nor there.

Frontier trying to increase revenue on assets that have near zero marginal cost would ultimately follow the same pattern irrespective of inflation...increase prices until total revenue starts to taper off. This is what's happening now. As long as prices increase faster than the number of people willing to pays them drops off, it's a sound decision (at least in the short term, which might be the only term). Even if the majority think the prices are absurd, a minority willing to pay any price can justify setting a price that will alienate most customers.

I won't say it can't be true (mostly due to crony corporatism and the too big to fail mantra that has seen taxpayers foot the bill for some major losses in the past) but I don't think it's necessarily, or likely, true in this instance. Hypothetically speaking, though a plausible scenario comparable to a company the size of Frontier, if someone invests £1m into a company when it is valued at a certain price per share and it loses 90% of that value, never to be regained, then that investor just lost £900,000, which I daresay is a bit more than the inconvenience which any of us has experienced as a games player due to it.

If you can afford to neglect a million GBP high-risk investment while it loses 90% of it's value (e.g. can't even be bothered to setup a stop-loss order), that loss probably isn't going to bother you anywhere near as much as having a worse gaming experience is going to bother someone who spends any meaningful portion of their free time time playing said game.

Few individual investors, and pretty much no institutional investors, are investing money they can't afford to lose. One-off sensational stories about morons taking out second mortgages to pay for Dogecoin or Blockbuster stock aside, almost no one is putting all their eggs in one stupid basket.

Capital losses, in quite a few tax codes, can offset income elsewhere. A few bad investments are rarely even inconveniences to larger investors; they'll just write it off and pay less on their gains. Upper management is probably being compensated in ways other than stock and/or have been selling stock all along. Institutional investors can often manipulate markets enough to profit even as businesses they've invested in go under and have options like bankruptcy they can leverage in order to hedge their losses, frequently while still retaining valuable assets (like IP). It's regular employees, small time/emotional investors, and non-corporate tax payers that loose here.

If Frontier implodes, it's not Tencent, WCP, IB, or even Braben who are going to feel it most.
 
Your argument was that inflation substantially justifies the new cosmetics prices. I'm pointing out that inflation has nothing do do with their costs because they have almost no costs for these items. Surely there is overhead elsewhere that has increased in cost (or maybe not, if they've been firing people and buying cheaper AWS packages), but the perceived value of the final product is neither here nor there.
I'm not justifying anything. Just pointing out the facts of the matter. What you say in response is still irrelevant, and incorrect even if it was. Inflation causes wages to rise as employees try to keep up with it, this puts pressure on the price points a company charges to counter that. The price point of an artistic piece is arbitrarily set, but that doesn't mean it isn't calculated to bring in x amount of profit per sale. As inflation goes up, profit goes down, therefore the calculation needs to be adjusted.

If your argument is that the skins are expensive due to your assertion of the minimal effort required to make them, then that applies at every point in time they have been on sale.

Frontier trying to increase revenue on assets that have near zero marginal cost would ultimately follow the same pattern irrespective of inflation...
It's not near zero marginal cost though, it's not they're some guy in a bedroom knocking these up in their spare time. And whether someone in their bedroom could knock them up in their spare time or not is also irrelevant. The overhead of being a company is a factor that you are neglecting to apply to the equation.

increase prices until total revenue starts to taper off. This is what's happening now. As long as prices increase faster than the number of people willing to pays them drops off, it's a sound decision (at least in the short term, which might be the only term). Even if the majority think the prices are absurd, a minority willing to pay any price can justify setting a price that will alienate most customers.
That is an equation formula that none of us are privy to, so any assertion about whether it is working for Frontier or not is entirely baseless.

If you can afford to neglect a million GBP high-risk investment while it loses 90% of it's value (e.g. can't even be bothered to setup a stop-loss order), that loss probably isn't going to bother you anywhere near as much as having a worse gaming experience is going to bother someone who spends any meaningful portion of their free time time playing said game.
You know you're doing the equivalent of saying 'ackshually' here, right? I don't believe any of this negates my point at all but rather serves to counter because you don't want to concede the point. A stop-loss order is a way to minimize losses, but a one percent loss on a million dollar investment still works out to be $10,000. Still far less than anything an Elite player has to reckon with. Though tragically not so if we're talking about Star Citizen players, unfortunately.

As an aside, try having an honest conversation about this in relation to Star Citizen over on Spectrum, where paint jobs are $10 and ships can be priced in the hundreds of dollars, and see how far it goes before it gets nuked.

If Frontier implodes, it's not Tencent, WCP, IB, or even Braben who are going to feel it most.
It would be a blip for Tencent IMO, but even so, I don't see how suggesting that having a company valued at $1bn being reduced to a value of $100m is somehow nothing is based in any sort of reality. I mean, in a general sense, at some point once you pass a certain amount of wealth, say $1bn, adding another one or two billion on top isn't going to drastically alter one's personal day to day life, but that doesn't equate it to a being of meaningless value. It's still an extra billion dollars (or two). Though it might be rationalized to be meaningless by an envious person, I guess.
 
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