It's really dumb that a cop can shoot you, and then your NPC controlling your fighter can shoot them, and YOU get a bounty.

[DemiserofD]

Did they change the fighter operation since the last time I ran one? Used to be that you could give the fighter commands like that - hold fire, attack my target, return to the ship and so on. Defend/fire at will was usually just the simplest option. Actually similar to turreted guns, which used to able to fire at the selected target or anything hostile in range.

Unfortunately, crossfire usually happens in the middle of battle, and fighters default to defend once the current target dies. So the cop shoots you, the target dies, the NPC reverts to defend and immediately turns and shoots the cop. Nothing you can do if you want the NPC to actually be fighting at all.

Shirley the default for a friendly firing on you is for you to decide hostility. Sec ships should be assumed to be friendlies to Clean commanders. Non Sec ships, sure Hostile away.

Security ships already do this by having a threshold & conditions before they start attacking you. Why is the game deciding my threshold for me?

This seems like the obvious answer to me. Unless you deliberately target and shoot a cop, they should always be considered friendly on your scanners.

Really, we should have a way to control who is considered friendly and hostile, as well. It's annoying you can be in a big group instance and have to wake out to reset someone who accidentally shot you to friendly.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Game or what you think would happen in RL? I don't want to discuss RL (I don't think it would be as easy as you think, but it would mainly depend where in the world it would happen

I am just talking logically when in a scenario where we have perfect recording of what happened like we do on our ship. either the ship should not make the target go red meaning the police are untouchable and can do what they want even against a person without a criminal record.
(this would make sense sort of and would be simple to code, and just let a bit of friendly fire go)

or the police should have the same friendly fire rules as everyone else which would also make sense. (and we know - so long as we do not turn off report crimes against me turned off) that the ship is capable of recording and broadcasting all crimes committed against a pilot.

but either way the OP is correct it makes no sense for our wingmate to open fire on a police ship IF we are without a bounty but gonna get a bounty for attacking the police even in self defence

 

[DemiserofD]

Really, if you have crimes against me turned off, someone shooting you shouldn't turn red unless they have a bounty or you intentionally shoot them, first. They're not doing anything wrong, legally.

That said, I did have crimes turned on.

 

[Florenus]

I am just talking logically when in a scenario where we have perfect recording of what happened like we do on our ship. either the ship should not make the target go red meaning the police are untouchable and can do what they want even against a person without a criminal record.
(this would make sense sort of and would be simple to code, and just let a bit of friendly fire go)

or the police should have the same friendly fire rules as everyone else which would also make sense. (and we know - so long as we do not turn off report crimes against me turned off) that the ship is capable of recording and broadcasting all crimes committed against a pilot.

but either way the OP is correct it makes no sense for our wingmate to open fire on a police ship IF we are without a bounty but gonna get a bounty for attacking the police even in self defence

Ok, I'm going to go against what I said previously and give you RL example:
Imagine you're driving in your car and on some street you encounter policemen exchanging fire with some thugs. An officer gets few shots into your car in the heat of the encounter and then you draw your weapon and shoot at the police officer.
I really, really doubt any court would take your side if you would live through the thing.

Anyway, what I was mainly trying to say was that it doesn't matter whether you personally opened fire or your NPC crew in SLF did, because to the game SLF is your weapon. And that's what OP was mainly complaining about - that he got the bounty even if it was NPC shooting. To which I say - it makes sense, because to the game SLF is the same as freely floating turret. It's your weapon that you control (deploy and give fire commands to).

 

[Kira Goto]

police are untouchable and can do what they want even against a person without a criminal record.

This is literally the case already. Security that goes hostile to you for no reason (even if they did not accidentally hit you, or you did not hit them) cannot be retaliated or defended against, regardless of whether crime reports is active.

Considerably annoying to deal with when you have a good instance in a high res site (usually if no hazardous are available) instead of one that spawns 500 million boring Eagles and Vipers with only occasionally a medium.

 

[DemiserofD]

Ok, I'm going to go against what I said previously and give you RL example:
Imagine you're driving in your car and on some street you encounter policemen exchanging fire with some thugs. An officer gets few shots into your car in the heat of the encounter and then you draw your weapon and shoot at the police officer.
I really, really doubt any court would take your side if you would live through the thing.

Anyway, what I was mainly trying to say was that it doesn't matter whether you personally opened fire or your NPC crew in SLF did, because to the game SLF is your weapon. And that's what OP was mainly complaining about - that he got the bounty even if it was NPC shooting. To which I say - it makes sense, because to the game SLF is the same as freely floating turret. It's your weapon that you control (deploy and give fire commands to).

That assumes intent. You got shot, failed to assess the situation, and blindly shot back.

In this situation, there is no intent. It's like if a cop accidentally shot your car's gas tank, and the gasoline burst out and lit them on fire, so they give you a bounty for murder.

 

[Florenus]

That assumes intent. You got shot, failed to assess the situation, and blindly shot back.

In this situation, there is no intent. It's like if a cop accidentally shot your car's gas tank, and the gasoline burst out and lit them on fire, so they give you a bounty for murder.

There was no intent on your part, that's true, but I don't see it as you've described it. You were having your weapon platform flying around and you failed to control it, so it shot at the police, assuming it was hostile. The fact that you didn't want it to happen is irrelevant. You allowed it to happen, so you are the one responsible in their eyes. Maybe you would be able to prove it was an accident in the court, but in Elite law enforcing is harsh and straightforward. After all they'll gladly kill you for loitering.

 

[DemiserofD]

There was no intent on your part, that's true, but I don't see it as you've described it. You were having your weapon platform flying around and you failed to control it, so it shot at the police, assuming it was hostile. The fact that you didn't want it to happen is irrelevant. You allowed it to happen, so you are the one responsible in their eyes. Maybe you would be able to prove it was an accident in the court, but in Elite law enforcing is harsh and straightforward. After all they'll gladly kill you for loitering.

In other words, it's stupid and unfun?

No matter how you word it, it's a bad gameplay mechanic that needlessly punishes using features as intended.

If we wanted realism, we'd be slaves, not flying spaceships.

 

[Florenus]

In other words, it's stupid and unfun?

No matter how you word it, it's a bad gameplay mechanic that needlessly punishes using features as intended.

If we wanted realism, we'd be slaves, not flying spaceships.

You just need to take special care when around police, because they are touchy. I understand that it can be annoying sometimes, but I actually like the fact that players need to take that into account instead of being able to completely ignore them. That you can do when you choose to become criminal.

 

[GroG79]

After all they'll gladly kill you for (pad) loitering

Exactly this. What are we even talking about? Your NPC Your Ship Your problem.

Obviously you can make fun of your NPC in the bar all you want this month. Without HR complaining.

 

[DemiserofD]

You just need to take special care when around police, because they are touchy. I understand that it can be annoying sometimes, but I actually like the fact that players need to take that into account instead of being able to completely ignore them. That you can do when you choose to become criminal.

How could I be careful here?

 

[Florenus]

How could I be careful here?

Don't use weapons you have problem controlling near them maybe?
I mean, you just experienced certain scenario. Now you know the risks. Figure it out.

 

[DemiserofD]

Don't use weapons you have problem controlling near them maybe?
I mean, you just experienced certain scenario. Now you know the risks. Figure it out.

There are very few places in the game where cops or friendlies are completely nonexistent. In practice, you're basically saying to just never use turrets or SLFs, which is not really a tenable solution.

 

[GroG79]

Target-Only is the correct setting you need to use when there are Cops around.

As for SLF:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/58q7cv/everything_you_need_to_know_about_ship_launched

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/58q7cv/everything_you_need_to_know_about_ship_launched/

 

[zeta]

Just had this happen. A trigger-happy cop shot me by accident, doing enough damage to make him turn red to me. Then, my NPC immediately shot back, gaining me a bounty, and ruining the instance I was running.

In what world is it fair that you can do literally nothing wrong and still get a bounty and need to waste ten minutes going to an interstellar factor?

Your NPC pilot should get the bounty, though you as the employer may be on the hook for the money, it is a grey area.

On the other hand the cop should be able to sue you, the employer, for emotional damage suffered by their pet cat.

Probably the behavior should be influenced by bgs/faction/power/security state.

You should also have the opportunity to 'pay now' in the instance, and in certain states the cop would demand more.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Don't use weapons you have problem controlling near them maybe?
I mean, you just experienced certain scenario. Now you know the risks. Figure it out.

I know technically from a coding POV you may be correct but our wingmates are not a weapon, they are not a turret...... from an in game role play perspective they are a pilot, or an employee.
Forgetting whether it makes sense for police to be tagged as a viable target by our scanner but not allowed to react to them shooting us.

If I hire a bodyguard and they cross the line I would not automatically be responsible for their crimes

 

[Florenus]

I know technically from a coding POV you may be correct but our wingmates are not a weapon, they are not a turret...... from an in game role play perspective they are a pilot, or an employee.
Forgetting whether it makes sense for police to be tagged as a viable target by our scanner but not allowed to react to them shooting us.

If I hire a bodyguard and they cross the line I would not automatically be responsible for their crimes

They did what they were paid to do. They did what they were told to do. You have all kinds of commands at your disposal. They were told to attack any hostile ship, so they did. They would be doing that even if you were a criminal, intentionally attacking police force. That's why they are such a useful tool. They don't question your commands.
Sure, it would be great if NPC pilots would have working personalities and were able to refuse commands they don't agree with. But as it stands, they don't, so they do everything they are told to do, getting paid for it, shrugging off responsibility on to you. Maybe that's not entirely realistic, but it's a simplification due to game mechanic that assumes SLF with or without NPC crew operating it is your weapon. We must take it and all we can do is to try to make up some in game explanation of why that is instead of comparing it to something that might happen in our life.
Also, right now you can't put them in a situation where they commit crimes and take the blame, while you just take advantage of the situation.

The fact that stray police shot can make them appear hostile to your ship computer and make your life difficult is another matter. Good or bad, we must take that into account and be careful around them.

 

[DemiserofD]

You could fly with Report Crimes off. You could ping an order to your fighter as soon as its target is destroyed. You could order your fighter to only attack your target. You could order your fighter to defend you…

If you don’t control your fighter, that’s on you, think of it like a dog. Your dog attacks someone, you get in trouble.

Flying with report crimes off doesn't change this. They still turn red, your NPC will still shoot them, and you will still get a bounty.

Target-Only is the correct setting you need to use when there are Cops around.

As for SLF:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/58q7cv/everything_you_need_to_know_about_ship_launched

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/58q7cv/everything_you_need_to_know_about_ship_launched/



View attachment 417300

Attack my target only will not fix this. When the target dies, it will swap back to defensive automatically, and then will automatically shoot anything that has shot you recently. Which includes if the police shoot you by accident.

 

[Shadowsnog]

There is still hold fire, hold position (and hold formation iirc)
This happened to me once as well. It was 100% my fault because i was lazy to control my slf pilot, and it is such an inconsequential thing that being outraged about it is ridiculous, despite it being partly games flaw. Akin to the slf pilot crying that you are shooting at him when its the slf that flew through your beams (or w/e).
You control the buttons you press.
Whats next? Npcs made rude faces at you when you punched them?

 

[DemiserofD]

There is still hold fire, hold position (and hold formation iirc)
This happened to me once as well. It was 100% my fault because i was lazy to control my slf pilot, and it is such an inconsequential thing that being outraged about it is ridiculous, despite it being partly games flaw. Akin to the slf pilot crying that you are shooting at him when its the slf that flew through your beams (or w/e).
You control the buttons you press.
Whats next? Npcs made rude faces at you when you punched them?

It's my fault that the cop shot me and became hostile on my scanner?