"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

[Kzak]

I'm wary of putting things down, since I mucked up my original station placements. I'll just have to make do with a less than optimal start. Good thing I'm not way out on the fringe. It's still possible for me to source things within sixty light-years.

I'll probably be starting construction in a new system myself, as it seems multi-economy stations significantly reduce the output, especially in the case of refineries. Pure economies for each planet will be my go-to rule from now on.

Ah, right, in that sense.

(Could you send the Journal "Docked" event for that station, please? That's probably needed to fully answer the question by determining the exact proportions of both market types)

Will do after I get home from work.

 

[Tyrrel]

I think with the right build-up it should be possible to produce everything except Emergency Power Cells locally.

Ceramics, CMM and Muon Imager might well be a case of "keep building up a system until its surface ports start producing that, then never touch it again just in case"

I have an experiment waiting for Thursday to test for the Emergency Power Cells, High Tech/Refinery T1 surface port. If they don't generate then it's looking like deep-space bubbles will require jumps back to the bubble in order to build up settlements which isn't ideal...

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I have an experiment waiting for Thursday to test for the Emergency Power Cells, High Tech/Refinery T1 surface port. If they don't generate then it's looking like deep-space bubbles will require jumps back to the bubble in order to build up settlements which isn't ideal...

It would be interesting to see if a HT/Refinery station in a colonised system close enough to the defined regional production centre started generating EPCs too.

Probably no practical use, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Tyrrel]

It would be interesting to see if a HT/Refinery station in a colonised system close enough to the defined regional production centre started generating EPCs too.

Probably no practical use, but interesting nonetheless.

I don't relish the coming gold rush of carriers stocking only emergency power cells to sit in supply bubbles and sell at extortionate prices.

 

[Kzak]

Ah, right, in that sense.

(Could you send the Journal "Docked" event for that station, please? That's probably needed to fully answer the question by determining the exact proportions of both market types)

In a concrete rather than RP sense, it's not the industrial settlement itself that's doing the consuming in this case - it's the industrial component of the Coriolis' own economy, as set by the settlement's influence, which is doing it.

This is going to get into the details of station specialisation

Trade specialisation

Steel seems to have production generally higher than consumption for equivalent-sized markets - but there is a wider range on the steel consumption with a very high peak, so you could have that be consumed.
(Copper is surprising that you're getting exports for - though there is scope to get lucky and have a low-consumption market for it on the industrial side)

Here's the 'Docked' event:

{ "timestamp":"2025-03-25T15:41:46Z", "event":"Docked", "StationName":"Boll City", "StationType":"Coriolis", "Taxi":false, "Multicrew":false, "StarSystem":"Col 285 Sector UA-D c13-1", "SystemAddress":358663394042, "MarketID":4208428035, "StationFaction":{ "Name":"The Lab ADM" }, "StationGovernment":"$government_Anarchy;", "StationGovernment_Localised":"Anarchy", "StationServices":[ "dock", "autodock", "blackmarket", "commodities", "contacts", "missions", "outfitting", "crewlounge", "rearm", "refuel", "repair", "shipyard", "engineer", "missionsgenerated", "facilitator", "flightcontroller", "stationoperations", "powerplay", "stationMenu", "shop", "livery", "socialspace", "registeringcolonisation" ], "StationEconomy":"$economy_Refinery;", "StationEconomy_Localised":"Refinery", "StationEconomies":[ { "Name":"$economy_Refinery;", "Name_Localised":"Refinery", "Proportion":0.900000 }, { "Name":"$economy_Industrial;", "Name_Localised":"Industrial", "Proportion":0.450000 } ], "DistFromStarLS":268.883185, "LandingPads":{ "Small":17, "Medium":18, "Large":9 } }

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I don't relish the coming gold rush of carriers stocking only emergency power cells to sit in supply bubbles and sell at extortionate prices.

It'll probably not be a great way to make money, given how slowly they get used. A single full carrier of EPCs can do about 100 T3 planetary ports and probably five times that in smaller mixed constructions.

If someone's selling at an extortionate price then that's just a time to come in and undercut them by half. The fair price (in terms of the time involved in shipping a carrier full of EPCs out there) is probably something like a 30-100k per tonne markup, at plausible "long ranges" from the bubble, and you probably would only charge that as part of an agreement with some of the local architects that they'd actually use the service rather than fetching their own, given that any long-range colonisation project probably has access to several of its own carriers.

(And sure, that is a lot more per tonne than you'd pay for them in the bubble, but for the amount of effort required to get a carrier out there full of them it's not an unreasonable payment for not having to do that yourself)

 

[Danieros]

I don't relish the coming gold rush of carriers stocking only emergency power cells to sit in supply bubbles and sell at extortionate prices.

Well, at least they barely get used. A FC of EPC can supply hundreds of constructions.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Here's the 'Docked' event:

Thanks. Refinery 0.9 from three hubs, Industrial 0.45 from one settlement.

In that position with space to keep building I'd probably experiment and build a fourth refinery hub, and see where it ended up after that. (Refinery 1.2, Refinery 1.0, and Refinery 0.98 are I think the most likely possibilities)

 

[Dormant account - pls delete]

I don't relish the coming gold rush of carriers stocking only emergency power cells to sit in supply bubbles and sell at extortionate prices.

I think this is now one of those where we all sit around saying "well it's not really a very good model of an economy" but then it turns out it does all the exact things real-world economies do

 

[_Flin_]

I don't relish the coming gold rush of carriers stocking only emergency power cells to sit in supply bubbles and sell at extortionate prices.

Tbh, at first i did not like the situation.
But now i actually do. This is a player generated economy with opportunities to be solved from player side and possibilities for interactive play.

Same with insulating membranes and CMM.

Edit: Nevertheless there should be a possibility to actually produce them. Make it hard, like Tech Level 150, but make it possible.

 

[_Flin_]

Thanks. Refinery 0.9 from three hubs, Industrial 0.45 from one settlement.

In that position with space to keep building I'd probably experiment and build a fourth refinery hub, and see where it ended up after that. (Refinery 1.2, Refinery 1.0, and Refinery 0.98 are I think the most likely possibilities)

We have 1.6 from 4 Refineries with a Coriolis.
So apparently these are not equal, but depend on other things as well.

Edit: that is on a imho terraformable HMC planet, last time i checked it was 1.6 with 4 refineries and 0.5 from a L Extraction settlement.

Edit2: or they have economies of scale... Phew... More test cases.

 

[baronjutter]

We have 1.6 from 4 Refineries with a Coriolis.
So apparently these are not equal, but depend on other things as well.

Edit: that is on a imho terraformable HMC planet, last time i checked it was 1.6 with 4 refineries and 0.5 from a L Extraction settlement.

Edit2: or they have economies of scale... Phew... More test cases.

Does increasing the percentage of an economy type do anything? Like does a 160% refinery produce more than a 100% refinery?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

We have 1.6 from 4 Refineries with a Coriolis.

Wild theory given those numbers: 1.6 from 4 and 0.9 from 3 might imply hubs have effectiveness equal to a tenth of their number squared?

(Unlikely, but thought I'd mention it)

Does increasing the percentage of an economy type do anything? Like does a 160% refinery produce more than a 100% refinery?

It should, based on how NPC economies work. But it'd be difficult to isolate the effect from the general effect that the extra refinery hubs also have on Dev Level, etc.

 

[_Flin_]

Does increasing the percentage of an economy type do anything? Like does a 160% refinery produce more than a 100% refinery?

I'd love to answer this, but the hamster was shot last Thursday.

 

[_Flin_]

Wild theory given those numbers: 1.6 from 4 and 0.9 from 3 might imply hubs have effectiveness equal to a tenth of their number squared?

(Unlikely, but thought I'd mention it).

Yep. Economies of scale. Would support the "single economy" hypothesis. But needs to be tested.

Edit: would lead to some ludicrous economies with 7-8 same economy buildings on a planet. 7 would be 4.9 and 8 6.4.

 

[vicwarrior]

Hmm, interesting, could an industrial outpost (or other port with predetermined economy) have its economy type further boosted by filling the slots it interacts with further boosters of its own type? If i give my industrial outpost 3 large industrial settlements below, would it produce harder afterwards than i would get by placing the large industrial settlements elsewhere (to compensate for system stat boost)?

In that case, colonisation meta might be trying to get planets with lots of slots to boost a big station overhead, then i guess everything else to raise system stats.

Would consider experimenting with this, if i wasn't completly done with hauling, hopefully stream today has good news regarding that, or i will be going into copium withdrawal

 

[_Flin_]

Hmm, interesting, could an industrial outpost (or other port with predetermined economy) have its economy type further boosted by filling the slots it interacts with further boosters of its own type?

We don't know. The economies of scale effect is just a theory that needs to be tested.

The difference in effect for the Refinery Hub might also come from the planet it is built on.

 

[_Flin_]

Another interesting thing happened.

We finished another Coriolis, a primary station, and it has a shipyard from the get go.
The other Coriolis we built lately does not have a shipyard.
Only conceivable difference: not a primary starport.

 

[Tifu]

We finished another Coriolis, a primary station, and it has a shipyard from the get go.
The other Coriolis we built lately does not have a shipyard.
Only conceivable difference: not a primary starport.

I think the primary starport, no matter what it is, gets a boost. Even my science outpost has been quite productive from the get go, and all it lacks is shipyard & outfitting (which outposts don't get).

 

[hutandrei]

Is it possible that the systems have some kind of "hidden stats"?
That probably would explain why in some cases the primary port has a Shipyard, and in other similar cases it doesn't...