Don't we just wait until after the live stream and then read about what it said in the forum?They haven't posted about the livestreams on this forum for ages and I have no expectation of that changing. It's the last Wednesday of each month.
New ship: Panther Clipper
- Thread starter Rubbernuke
- Start date
Most other games don't even have a segment at all in most of the streams, so if "all things were equal" then we'd maybe get three segments this year. Sure, they might then be the first item on the stream sometimes.
Sure, but consider the relative gains in capability involved.
- the Mandalay has a maximum jump range only a few percent higher than the Anaconda and maybe 10% above the DBX depending on build, while not being a clear upgrade on other exploration-related properties
- combat has much less dependence on a single key value than exploration, but the P2 is not obviously more capable overall than a FDL (except at "getting to the fight in the first place", of course)
So if the Panther Clipper has a cargo capacity of 800-850t for a similar level of "power creep", sure, probably no big deal in terms of outcomes...
Even an (apparently disappointing...) 1000t would be ~25% better than the best previous ship, on a profession which has a much stronger dependency on a single ship property than combat or even than exploration.
I'm not saying they won't give it 1000t or more, just that it would be an extremely large jump in capabilities for a new ship if they did.
(Not as large as the jump between the original T-9 design and the Cutter, admittedly, but that's why they gave the T-9 an extra size 8 internal. If they replicated that sort of margin the Panther would carry ~1200t; more than that would be genuinely unprecedented even going back over ten years to the Cutter's release)
Not me. I haven't found anything they've had to say interesting for a while now.Don't we just wait until after the live stream and then read about what it said in the forum?
Surprise, surprise, that applies to any game's audience if the only segment that interests them is the one about their game. I imagine fixed time blocks per game could cure that, as everyone would know when to tune in. But I get it, there's not the same amount of news per game to fit a fixed timeframe. It's also far less economical to have separate streams on different days. And last not least you can't completely rule out some viewers to become interested in one of the other games eventually. The last one however would get the least chance of that, so actually flipping the rotation some times could help with that. But I guess there are also a lot of ED players that put the stream on mute and afk for the drops, then drop out and view the recaps that will be up within minutes of the stream ending.
I would be happy "already" if the 4 cargo container-like stacks that are visible from the top in the U-shape of the Panther will be new Class 9 Cargo Racks for 4x 512 tons of cargo capacity. If they are only class 8 slots (or not reflected in the internals at all), I would also be quite disappointed.
The design, both the whole wild cat theme with the moving landing gear "limbs" and the claws along with the visible cargo container stacks, is fantastic - and I do hope the internals reflect it
Looks like 4 separate class 9 Cargo racks
(would amount to the same amount of cargo space)
And then they troll us, and it's actually 4x size 7.Looks like 4 separate class 9 Cargo racks
(would amount to the same amount of cargo space)
Well yes but unlike other professions, FDEV released an unprecedented need for large-scale hauling with Colonization. A total paradigm shift. What we thought was a "good enough" hauling ship was rendered pathetically impotent overnight. Everything is different now, so must be our thinking.
They've painted themselves into a corner here, by invoking the legendary Panther Clipper soon after the release of Trailblazers. Which brought with it the most mind-numbing and truly jaw-dropping tonnage requirements to engage meaningfully in Colonizing systems. People are naturally going to be expecting legendary capabilities that equal it's legendary history as THE must-have ship in Elite.
yeah, silly me.
That's hardly "painted into a corner".
If they want to allow us to colonise systems twice as fast as we are doing (doesn't seem all that likely to me, but sure, they might feel it's not going "fast enough") but also don't want the Panther to outclass the existing ships by more than 25%, then they can:
- give the Panther Clipper 960t of cargo capacity so it's still substantially better than existing bulk freighters
- also announce that they're halving colonisation tonnage requirements across the board
Much easier to balance than considering the impacts of more than doubling optimal hauling rates (for everything, not just colonisation) overnight, and for that matter balancing the Panther's laden vs unladen performance (if it has a laden jump range that's usable at all, it probably comes close to the Mandalay when empty)
5,000+ is mine...
So My arx is safe at a guess...
You're looking at this from strictly a balance perspective not a business one. Your two suggestions would certainly address the symptoms, yes. Yet it would destroy the demand for the Panther Clipper from a fiscal perspective.
The Panther Clipper will live or die on it's ability to outclass existing cargo ships significantly. That is where we, the consumer, are drawing the line. After all they could have announced this ship at ANY POINT over the last 11 years. Ask yourself why they waited until now?
That's nowhere near enough
Indeed, and we do have some previous data as an obvious point for comparison for how FDev feel about this. Without reposting the post where I did the exact numbers, the Type 8 was a 30+% increase on the Python for Medium pads.
A similar increase over the Cutter would put the Panther at a little over the 1000T mark, which seems super believable, and mathematically could work with the "Oh it needs to have 4 things the same because of that design", by having 4 Size 8 slots giving it 1024T, and only a few other smaller/middling slots for equipment aside from that. Rounding up to about 1200T min-maxed.
People saying that they wouldn't buy the Panther if it doesn't TRIPLE the Cutters capacity are only fooling themselves.
Triple is nowhere near enough.
And by saying I won't buy it (not for Arx at least!) unless it is 5000+ is factual, not fooling myself.
I am not a die-hard conservative wishing for incremental change for 'balance' or whatever nonsense, I play games for my amusement, so know what would amuse me...
ETA: I have bought each new ship released for Arx on release day, as they had to potential to be amusing, I strongly suspect that I won't be spending a single Arx on the PC, ever.
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My personal judging metric would be 1.5k at minimum - with the ability to still have some form of protection against pirates and/or to fight back instead of a paper hull - to justify an ARX purchase, but I'm not expecting it to be that high. 1k would still be "good" in the sense of it reducing trips by some 20-30ish % (so a T2 primary would take 70 runs instead of 90 or 100 as it currently takes with a either unshielded or shielded T9/Cutter)...
... what we actually get is what we get, though. Even if I don't have a clue what the ship will look like (in terms of internals), it serves to have a judging metric for which to say if you might spend or not spend on it.
Saying that, I'm still doubtful I'd immediately say 'Yes' for a ship that I'm only ever going to use for hauling [for colonization] and which frankly feels like a bit of a bandaid for how much it takes to build things in the current Trailblazers state.
... what we actually get is what we get, though. Even if I don't have a clue what the ship will look like (in terms of internals), it serves to have a judging metric for which to say if you might spend or not spend on it.
Saying that, I'm still doubtful I'd immediately say 'Yes' for a ship that I'm only ever going to use for hauling [for colonization] and which frankly feels like a bit of a bandaid for how much it takes to build things in the current Trailblazers state.
There are two uses for a large barge like that for me: one is colonization, yes. Building a T3 planetary port or an Orbis is an undertaking even if you have several dedicated people doing it; having a 1500t+ ship won't make it an afternoon venture. The other is carrier refueling. Being able to fill an empty carrier tank with just one trip and fill up the 15000 tons extra for long-range exploration journey in 10 trips or less would be "Shut up and take my money!" moment for me
Panther Clipper is a legendary ship and I think the MKII should live up to that reputation, not be just moderately better than T9 and Cutter. It needs to be radical. It should be massive, twice as expensive as the Cutter, have the biggest non-downsizeable core modules (life support, sensors, SCO drive) and 8A thrusters should be non-negotiable if you want it to move at all when fully loaded. It should be an awe-inspiring sight when it approaches you in the mailslot and ATC should announce it to all the traffic around the station when one comes in for a landing or takes off. It should be the An-225; the Seawise Giant; the Bagger 288 of the 34th century.
Hmm... sad that the new ships are Odyssey only, because the Panther Clipper would make an excellent spare fuel tank for my carrier... (with alt commander(s) on board...)
My prediction, based on the type-9s optionals and some logical upgrades to those, panther clipper will be about 1050t max cargo capacity
No it didn’t though it did shake things up.
Again no it didn’t as it turned out not to be significantly better than the top ships.
If it hauls twice as much or more than the existing top ships it is going to seriously mess up missions and CGs.
If bulk tax is still a thing I can see a lot of complaints about prices being nerfed by new owners of the PC.