Odyssey Combat is bad.

[Elpapo]

Here we go again...

Cant help, but to "complain" (more about OP, than state of game) as well, when like I reading yet another, "Complains, then some of my suggestions" thread, wich not even single one, was actually never, even once implemented(and theres been tons of these)... by none other than DemiserofD, the complainer no.1 of these forums. Seriously, there is no one else who complains that much as OP, and ever since I am around these forums, no one else is even close. I feel like even oldschool Yamkis could learn from you, in regard of complaining about game.

By watching OP doing such for years by now (ever since he came to forums), I kind feel that OP does not enjoy elite at all. Everything is bad, this should be diffrent, that could be better, here my suggestion etc... but it is as it is, the game itself. Dude, it wont change. If you dont like this game, maybe its about time to move on, onto something else.

"Minimum viable product", sad as it is, but it is as it is. Here I agree with OP, elite always been a "mess"... but its less mess than SC for comparsion. There arent much other games like this one, but in its genre, elite feels most "polished", of anything else out there.

But I guess I got used to it, so I dont expect anything too much. After all these years, seeing how Fdevs doing things, thats how it always went.

Oddy cant be "fixed", that train is gone, the potential it had, is already lost. There might be some improvments, YEARS from now on, maybe thats it, and even when such time comes, it wont be significant.

Lastly, in my opinion, oddy wont gain much it it gets monetized, by ARX, to get new content for it, like adding new weps or suits for "early access" or whatever... it would only bring power creep, wich oddy, given its simplicity, its free of it.

 

[DemiserofD]

Here we go again...

Cant help, but to "complain" (more about OP, than state of game) as well, when like I reading yet another, "Complains, then some of my suggestions" thread, wich not even single one, was actually never, even once implemented(and theres been tons of these)... by none other than DemiserofD, the complainer no.1 of these forums. Seriously, there is no one else who complains that much as OP, and ever since I am around these forums, no one else is even close. I feel like even oldschool Yamkis could learn from you, in regard of complaining about game.

By watching OP doing such for years by now (ever since he came to forums), I kind feel that OP does not enjoy elite at all. Everything is bad, this should be diffrent, that could be better, here my suggestion etc... but it is as it is, the game itself. Dude, it wont change. If you dont like this game, maybe its about time to move on, onto something else.

"Minimum viable product", sad as it is, but it is as it is. Here I agree with OP, elite always been a "mess"... but its less mess than SC for comparsion. There arent much other games like this one, but in its genre, elite feels most "polished", of anything else out there.

But I guess I got used to it, so I dont expect anything too much. After all these years, seeing how Fdevs doing things, thats how it always went.

Oddy cant be "fixed", that train is gone, the potential it had, is already lost. There might be some improvments, YEARS from now on, maybe thats it, and even when such time comes, it wont be significant.

Lastly, in my opinion, oddy wont gain much it it gets monetized, by ARX, to get new content for it, like adding new weps or suits for "early access" or whatever... it would only bring power creep, wich oddy, given its simplicity, its free of it.

Honestly, it's actually the opposite. I love the game, so I care about it and want it to be the best it can be.

The point of suggestions isn't to be implemented 1:1; it's to provide other viewpoints and feedback to help the devs find what matters the most and hopefully help them to find solutions that fit THEIR ideas, THEIR passions. That's a big part of why I post my suggestions here; because when multiple people turn their minds to a single problem, it makes something greater than the sum of its parts. I don't just want to share my ideas, I want to improve them, evolve them, find out if they could work.

And honestly, you're wrong that things can't be fixed. Look at Powerplay 2.0! Sure it's got its issues, but it's MILES beyond the first iteration! Sure, it took years and hundreds or thousands of suggestions, but eventually it happened!

I could easily see the same happening to Odyssey. A few years down the line, a wholesale rework, bringing it ten steps closer to the original vision we can only barely taste.

 

[gbjbaanb]

The problem of course is who wants to cross several km of jagged terrain (on-foot or in SRV, doesn't matter) to get to the settlement? Also, how does the station defence know whether you're at the settlement to pick up some Water for your colonization project or to commit mass murder?

1. SRVs make that easy, but it wasn;t an actual game suggestion - the game works fine as is.
2. You ask nicely to land and dock. Like at stations.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I wouldn't expect FD to ever return to it to make any significant overhauls, I think they more of less consider it done and dusted. They are now focusing on other things.

Never seen that before in this game.

 

[JustKneller]

Oddy cant be "fixed", that train is gone, the potential it had, is already lost. There might be some improvments, YEARS from now on, maybe thats it, and even when such time comes, it wont be significant.

I'm not so sure about this. I'm late to the party here and only joined when the buy in was cheap. It's definitely rough around the edges (particularly the on foot content, the flight is great, though), but I don't regret the pittance I've spent on it.

This game appears to be still in some kind of development, though. They have a roadmap, at least. Nothing on it appears to address polishing up the current content issues and it seems to just add more ships and other stuff that doesn't interest me. But, it ain't dead yet.

It sounds like most people have the same perspective but a different response. Nobody seems to be talking about it being that great. Instead, it's just "On Foot isn't good and I want to complain about it" and "On Foot isn't good but let's shut up about it already".

I really respect that they kept Horizons intact, though. That's a winning move in my book. A lot of Odyssey isn't for me. I'm planning to dabble more with exobiology (to see if it stays interesting) and stealth (to see if I can make something serviceable out of it). But if that doesn't pan out, it's nice to know I can just go back to Horizons and trim the fat.

 

[Rat Catcher]

But if that doesn't pan out, it's nice to know I can just go back to Horizons and trim the fat.

Unless you are going to Legacy, the code for Horizons (Live) and Odyssey is the same, you just don't get the EDO specifics unlocked in Horizons.

 

[JustKneller]

Unless you are going to Legacy, the code for Horizons (Live) and Odyssey is the same, you just don't get the EDO specifics unlocked in Horizons.

I am actually tempted to do this. However, I can't seem to find a good breakdown to the differences between Legacy and Horizons Live. I'm curious to know what the differences are.

 

[Frankymole]

That completed, the remainder SHOULD be possible to do, especially if it's monetized along the way. New suit ARX early access, for instance, each time paired with new content and such. Like, they rework exobiology AND release a new exobio suit for cave delving or something, to go along with the new caves they add. They rework settlement defenses and release a new stealth suit, perhaps. Etc, etc.

Not sure where you get caves from. That would require a huge ground-up reworking of planet surfaces are generated (height maps) that would make the last major change to them (that came with the repetitive tiling) look like child's play.

 

[Frankymole]

I am actually tempted to do this. However, I can't seem to find a good breakdown to the differences between Legacy and Horizons Live. I'm curious to know what the differences are.

Isn't it mainly the shared universe - the Legacy version is cut off from the developing galaxy (hence no colonised worlds). Whereas live is obviously the shared "current" BGS, Powerplay 2 and expanding Bubble etc.

 

[Shurimal]

Not sure where you get caves from. That would require a huge ground-up reworking of planet surfaces are generated (height maps) that would make the last major change to them (that came with the repetitive tiling) look like child's play.

Plenty of games that use heightmaps for their terrain, yet have caves, stone arches, overhanging cliffs etc. Even E: D already has caves: Thargoid surface sites.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

legacy had essentially a different game engine and the way the planets were made was different. over all the new version probably looks better (from memory) but at the same time it is much more homogenised without the often v interesting extremes in the old version. also I don't think the old version used tiling anywhere near as much which once you see in ody can be hard to unsee.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I am actually tempted to do this. However, I can't seem to find a good breakdown to the differences between Legacy and Horizons Live. I'm curious to know what the differences are.

Legacy is the 'original' ED, is around 20 GB, compared to 53 GB for Live. It is considerably less resource hungry (hence 'faster') than Live and has better AA and lighting.
Legacy is in true Maintenance mode with only critical bug fixes likely, atmo bodies are not landable, no on-foot content of any kind, no new ships etc. Progress in Legacy is not carried over to Live (& vice versa) although Arx may be earned as normal (it is possible to earn 800 Arx/week by playing both versions, apparently)

Legacy is the only version Console players have natively, which probably explains why FD are 'keeping the lights on' for it.

 

[Elpapo]

Honestly, it's actually the opposite. I love the game, so I care about it and want it to be the best it can be.

The point of suggestions isn't to be implemented 1:1; it's to provide other viewpoints and feedback to help the devs find what matters the most and hopefully help them to find solutions that fit THEIR ideas, THEIR passions. That's a big part of why I post my suggestions here; because when multiple people turn their minds to a single problem, it makes something greater than the sum of its parts. I don't just want to share my ideas, I want to improve them, evolve them, find out if they could work.
And honestly, you're wrong that things can't be fixed. Look at Powerplay 2.0! Sure it's got its issues, but it's MILES beyond the first iteration! Sure, it took years and hundreds or thousands of suggestions, but eventually it happened!

I could easily see the same happening to Odyssey. A few years down the line, a wholesale rework, bringing it ten steps closer to the original vision we can only barely taste.

Well, it would be nicer from Fdevs, to actually listen to some of these suggestions (wich some of em, aint half bad)... as they never did, and they doing things at thier own leasiure, wich you rightly pointed out. It takes too much time, I guess, and thats the thing.

As for oddy, it seems its kind of like "completed" loopholed feature as itself, wich covers almost all aspects to usual space based gameplay, but oddy in itself wich already is past of time for "fixes"(I mean here: with every update, there is always period when following updates fixes bugs related with said update, but that only last until new feature is added), with following general dissapointment of its last significant oddy-based "addons", wich would be thargoid spires and thargoid onfoot combat additions, while it atleast was on par with on-going lore when it was that time... Yet, many players actually expected thargoid themselfs in flesh, to finnaly make an appear, but we where given only a drones, wich awfully felt like cheap "copy & paste" existing mechanic with sentry drones, wich are around since horizons.

Recent thargoid war, wich already ended was more than perfect occasion to implement something better for AX gameplay than it did, so its further unlikely to see "expanded" or "overhauled" thargoid content for oddy, unless a new war emerges, but thats is unlikely, for atleast next 2 years.

Like mentioned at first, since its "completed"(by Fdevs eyes), by how it is, other than small QoL changes, its very unlikely to see anything new in oddy, in any near future. Weapons selection is poor, but cuz that there is valid reason for it. Balancing. Yep, since its MMO, so it needs both balance checks PVP and PVE, by internal Fdevs standards in that regard. Too many weapon types, would bring problems with balancing, but with existing weapon selection and thier mods, yet it feels they nailed it preety nicely, and there is quite diffrence between apex PVE and PVP setups.

New suits... unless entirely new loophole mechanics for onfoot is added, there is no need for new suits. Oddy have 3 major activities, wich are scavenging, exploration, and combat, and there are suits dedicated for each of activity, and cosmetics make them "diverse" enough, I guess, despite being only 3 types.

Surely, they could add new weapons and suits, for ARX, wich are better than existing ones, but other than power creep, it would not bring anything new.
Speaking about power creep and onfoot, its not quite same as with ships, so I dont think those would sell as good, like ships did. I rather would want have another ship for ARX, than new weapon or suits for oddy, if anything, unless oddy gets new loopholes.

My problem with it is, why I would need/want spend ARX for new shiny weapon/suit in first place, since Ive long time ago done everything that can be done in oddy (maxed out suits/weapons in great numbers and all engineers unlocked), to the point, where I dont leave my ship for months, as there is nothing else to do in oddy for Me. I doubt that new weapon would me make go back to speedrunning settlements for mats, I kinda burned myself with THAT grind, to max my all gear, where doing oddy stuff is not enjoyable anymore. Similary to ships, PVP is what could keep me intrested, but problem with PVP in oddy, that unless there is CG with ground based CZ's, finding PVP otherwise is... just rare, too rare to spend hours just to find cmdr or two.

I'm not so sure about this. I'm late to the party here and only joined when the buy in was cheap. It's definitely rough around the edges (particularly the on foot content, the flight is great, though), but I don't regret the pittance I've spent on it.
This game appears to be still in some kind of development, though. They have a roadmap, at least. Nothing on it appears to address polishing up the current content issues and it seems to just add more ships and other stuff that doesn't interest me. But, it ain't dead yet.

Dead is not, thats for sure. Neither I ever felt any regret with this game, since day 1, back in 2014.
But thats not it, and My point was that once an given feature is implemented, its take a lot of time, to actually see any "improvments". It takes years, usually. Seen that firsthand. Problem is (and point of my ealier post is) that frequency of major updates, wich are so spread, that it take literally years to fix some problems, or to revamp existing features, wich is on-going right now. There are new features coming up, new ships, but all of that makes that oddysey turn for overhaul aint is yet, and its not near horizon yet, as there is bunch of features in line, similary waiting for overhauls.

 

[Frankymole]

Plenty of games that use heightmaps for their terrain, yet have caves, stone arches, overhanging cliffs etc. Even E: D already has caves: Thargoid surface sites.

They're handcrafted though.
Unlikely among trillions of procedurally-generated planets.

 

[Shurimal]

They're handcrafted though.
Unlikely among trillions of procedurally-generated planets.

What you need is what's already in E: D. That is, ability to modify the heightmap after the fact in an arbitrary place, and then plop a hand-crafted asset on that modified plot. That's how Guardian and Thargoid sites and settlements are placed on planet surfaces (a lot of them procedurally!). Thargoid sites already have what are essentially caves.

If you want to do caves like in Space Engineers or Minecraft, then yes, heightmap based terrain gen cannot do that, you need voxels. But you can have hand-crafted cave assets procedurally dropped onto/into height map modifications. Yes, there will be obviously repeating assets, but even the procedural height map generation has obvious "archetypes" or "rudiments" that a sharp eye will notice (my favourite is the "shark fin" mountain that is absolutely everywhere).

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

They're handcrafted though.
Unlikely among trillions of procedurally-generated planets.

if it were an underground cavern i guess only the entrance would need to be placed. anything internal could be separate i would expect (spoken as someone who isnt a developer !)

 

[JustKneller]

Isn't it mainly the shared universe - the Legacy version is cut off from the developing galaxy (hence no colonised worlds). Whereas live is obviously the shared "current" BGS, Powerplay 2 and expanding Bubble etc.

Nowhere really breaks it down, though. I'm also wondering what ships are off the menu, what does an SRV matter in Legacy Horizons, how the day-to-day is affected, stuff like that.

Legacy is the 'original' ED, is around 20 GB, compared to 53 GB for Live. It is considerably less resource hungry (hence 'faster') than Live and has better AA and lighting.
Legacy is in true Maintenance mode with only critical bug fixes likely, atmo bodies are not landable, no on-foot content of any kind, no new ships etc. Progress in Legacy is not carried over to Live (& vice versa) although Arx may be earned as normal (it is possible to earn 800 Arx/week by playing both versions, apparently)

Legacy is the only version Console players have natively, which probably explains why FD are 'keeping the lights on' for it.

I did install it yesterday and have been tinkering around with it. It definitely has better AA and lighting, which alone might sell me on it. You mentioned no new ships, but where's the cut off? What current ships would be off the menu? I assume the Mandalay and Corsair, and probably others? And, without Odyssey, what use does the SRV have? My guess is hacking missions and trawling for materials? And, is it live? I didn't see an option for Solo mode when I was in there.

Dead is not, thats for sure. Neither I ever felt any regret with this game, since day 1, back in 2014.
But thats not it, and My point was that once an given feature is implemented, its take a lot of time, to actually see any "improvments". It takes years, usually. Seen that firsthand. Problem is (and point of my ealier post is) that frequency of major updates, wich are so spread, that it take literally years to fix some problems, or to revamp existing features, wich is on-going right now. There are new features coming up, new ships, but all of that makes that oddysey turn for overhaul aint is yet, and its not near horizon yet, as there is bunch of features in line, similary waiting for overhauls.

Well, that I agree with. I think that's an industry practice in general. Releasing new stuff takes precedent over fixing what is there.

 

[Rat Catcher]

You mentioned no new ships, but where's the cut off?

The 5 new ships introduced into Odyssey, starting with the Python Mk 2 (and soon PCII) do not exist in Legacy.
FCs are in, I'm not sure about the Scorpion (I stopped playing what is now Legacy on release of EDO) but the Scarab exists and has uses for both Mat gathering and missions.
If you are also a VR player, Legacy is also better looking in VR than Live, and is useable even on a fairly modest PC.

All modes are available...

 

[aRJay]

Nowhere really breaks it down, though. I'm also wondering what ships are off the menu, what does an SRV matter in Legacy Horizons, how the day-to-day is affected, stuff like that.


I did install it yesterday and have been tinkering around with it. It definitely has better AA and lighting, which alone might sell me on it. You mentioned no new ships, but where's the cut off? What current ships would be off the menu? I assume the Mandalay and Corsair, and probably others? And, without Odyssey, what use does the SRV have? My guess is hacking missions and trawling for materials? And, is it live? I didn't see an option for Solo mode when I was in there.


Well, that I agree with. I think that's an industry practice in general. Releasing new stuff takes precedent over fixing what is there.

No Scorpion SRV that was part of Odyssey
No SCO FSDs so no Python II, Type 8, Mandalay, Cobra 5, Corsair, Panther Clipper II.
No Thargoid war mechanics so none of the later AX weapons.
No PP2
No Colonisation/Trailblazers
No new CGs though I think there were some simple ones being repeated possibly for console badge earning.

Basically nothing new since Odyssey launched on 19 May 2021.

All modes available.

 

[DemiserofD]

Surely, they could add new weapons and suits, for ARX, wich are better than existing ones, but other than power creep, it would not bring anything new.

Well, the trick here is you add new WAYS of playing, not just BETTER ways.

Did you ever play Mass Effect? They had a multiplayer mode and they added all sorts of options, essentially 'suit types', and while a few were probably OP, for the most part they did a remarkably good job of keeping things balanced because of the way they did the balancing.

Take the basic Human Soldier, for example(the equivalent of a Dominator suit). It could carry more weapons than normal, and it also had Adrenaline Rush, which boosted your damage and durability temporarily, as well as frag grenades and Concussive Shot, which could knock down or stagger enemies in a small radius, or detonate damage over time effects from your weapons. Simple, yes, but really fun because it made your weapons hit like a truck and let you tank enemy fire to do it.

Then you had the Turian Soldier; instead of Adrenaline Rush, they had Marksman, which boosted accuracy, fire rate, and reload speed, and instead of frag grenades they had proximity mines, which served a similar role but could be used to preemptively block doors and such.

See? You don't need to be TOO different or overpowered to be interestingly different.

Of course, you can go more and more interesting and unique too, as they did in ME3; You started with the basic differences, and then they released packs of new class variants, like the N7 Destroyer, which had Devastator Mode, a permanent mode which made you walk slowly but incredibly tanky and fire super fast. And it had an auto-firing rocket launcher on the shoulder that would synthesize and then fire a rocket at nearby enemies automatically. Or the Turian Havoc, which had stimpacks to give you on-demand super-healing paired with powerful melee abilities and high agility.

And that's all JUST inside the 'soldier' domain! You also had snipers and engineers just in the tech side of things, plus all the different biotic abilities that game had!