Immersion breakers...Carriers are the weakest link.

[Aashenfox]

Personally, I'm the very first one to say 'fun over realism', if it's a fantasy setting, like the far future, make it fun, not overly dystopian or overly realistic to the point of depression, a line that ED has walked right on top of for many years.

Many complain about supercruise times and autopilots, I don't. Though I do think every ship should come included with a SC assist.
Many complain about the disconnect of what was originally supposed to be telepresence, turned into real presence, and yet somehow we survive blowing up in a spaceship.
Many complain about teleportation of people and ships.
Many complain about the acceleration, you would be a stain on the back of your ships bulkhead if you could accelerate as we do. Same with ramming other ships at a combined speed of 1000+mps.
Many complain that crime is not realistic and too easy.
There are many others, many have their own pet peeves.

I accept all of these things as either 'makes it better' or 'necessary evil to preserve some immersion', or 'not worth addressing' with the caveat that I would change some of them, but also understanding that it wouldn't be economical for the dev team to do so, at least not individually.

Having said all that, last night, I had the worst immersion breaker I've ever experienced in the whole game, and it brings up a salient point about carriers... DO I OWN IT OR NOT?

MY OWN CARRIER killed me for defending myself. Yes, I was with my carrier in a hostile powerplay jurisdiction, I understand mechanically WHY this happened, but it's completely stupid and should be easy to fix. I took off, I was scanned by a powerplay NPC idiot (another problem that needs addressing, there is never a single second without combat happening outside ANY station or carrier now, it's completely ridiculous) in an anaconda, and of course they immediately opened fire, IN THE NO FIRE ZONE, AT THE OWNER OF THE CARRIER. This should be suicide!? Of course I fired back, and of course my carrier killed me instantly.

I paid 10Bn for that carrier. I pay the wages of everyone inside. They are all pledged to Delaine, because I pay them and my carrier is an island. Why on Jupiter would they kill me? Can you imagine a US aircraft carrier that allows the commander to take it to a hostile jurisdiction, but if they attack the enemy, the aircraft carrier shoots the US planes down as they come in to land, because 'hey we're in the enemy's waters, we have to enforce their laws!'. Give me a break.

Please, make it make sense. For me this is one of the most urgent things that must be changed, my carrier should defend me against ANY threats, even local law enforcement (even if it incurs bounties for me),

Carriers have NO immersion. They don't greet you any differently than they do any other commander, even a 'welcome home commander' for the owner of a carrier would be a massive difference.

Many stations have their own jurisdictions, don't even think about telling me that making carriers their own jurisdiction, or even making the jurisdiction the same as the PP faction of the owner, is not easy, or not functionally in the game, cos it is! You can have every station in a system in a different jurisdiction with no issues, this happens now (I admit not power play, that is always system wide, but still, at least all carriers could be lawless to prevent idiotic consequences). Please FD, have a look at this. My carrier is my home, I love it, and when it destroys me, that makes ZERO sense.

 

[Shurimal]

Yeah, either make carriers a neutral zone where Powerplay rules don't apply (that is, an opforce pledge shooting you at your carrier parked in their territory still commits a crime and is treated as such), or make them part of the owner's power territory (that is you can shoot opforce pledges without bounties around your carrier if parked in hostile territory).

As it is, if I can't park in my own power's territory, I highly prefer to park my carrier in a nearby uninhabited or at least non-PP system.

 

[Aashenfox]

Yeah, either make carriers a neutral zone where Powerplay rules don't apply (that is, an opforce pledge shooting you at your carrier parked in their territory still commits a crime and is treated as such), or make them part of the owner's power territory (that is you can shoot opforce pledges without bounties around your carrier if parked in hostile territory).

As it is, if I can't park in my own power's territory, I highly prefer to park my carrier in a nearby uninhabited or at least non-PP system.

Tbh, I come and go so quickly it never happened to me before, I have never once considered the jurisdiction I park my carrier in. That's why it was such a shock

 

[HRDiagram]

I've been destroyed by my carrier before.
It's terribly annoying and makes little sense indeed in the majority of situations.
I got closure, however, by changing all the personnel operating it.
In my head canon, my CMDR personally escorted them to the nearest airlock and spaced them.

 

[Shurimal]

I got closure, however, by changing all the personnel operating it.
In my head canon, my CMDR personally escorted them to the nearest airlock and spaced them.

Ah, the good ol' Stalin approach: "If in doubt, purge!"

 

[PilotB]

Turn off the security forces when in hostile territory. You asked for system security to cover the carrier.

 

[Shurimal]

Turn off the security forces when in hostile territory.

You can do that?

 

[Aashenfox]

Turn off the security forces when in hostile territory. You asked for system security to cover the carrier.

It still doesn't make sense that my own employee fired the lasers that killed me, come on man.

But you've piqued my interest, is this yet another feature I've never seen? How do I change my carrier's security status?

 

[Rubbernuke]

I took off, I was scanned by a powerplay NPC idiot (within 2 mins of logging in, another problem that needs addressing, there is never a single second without combat happening outside ANY station or carrier now, it's completely ridiculous) in an anaconda, and of course they immediately opened fire, IN THE NO FIRE ZONE, AT THE OWNER OF THE CARRIER. This should be suicide!? Of course I fired back, and of course my carrier killed me instantly.

So exactly where should PP NPCs attack you? This is good that NPCs in a hostile area are actually attacking you. FD switched off a lot of roving PP NPCs and we need more of them, not less patrolling and causing aggro.

I fully agree with carriers being on your side though- however we rent them and Brewer (IIRC lore wise) are a neutral third party and act as such.

 

[Shurimal]

So exactly where should PP NPCs attack you?

Around the stations, nav beacons and especially installations (I think relay, comms, government etc installations would be really important for Powers and they wouldn't want a random opforce agent messing around them, especially since causing trouble is the only reason for a random pilot to be there at all—so we need opportunities for making trouble at these, too), at signal sources, random interdict-and-scans while travelling. Frequency should be dependent on system PP level, ongoing undermining activity and BGS states. As it is now, it's inconsistent, too random and too infrequent. About the only places you actually get active resistance now is at power wreckage and weapons fire signals, but even there it's too inconsistent.

 

[galahad2069]

So exactly where should PP NPCs attack you?

I think his problem was his own carrier's reaction, not the place where NPCs could attack him.

 

[Shir]

My carrier killed me once. I then fired all of the old crew (which have been with the carrier since carriers were introduced to the game) and got new guys..

 

[CMDR Nathan Atterlein]

Using the carrier illegally while acquiring bounties is quite the idea. I'd love if it could actually be used offensively, which would likely up the already existing "hull maintenance" mechanic.

Imagine if there were actual pp attacks on systems via carriers...

It would also give an extra utility for credits!

 

[Rubbernuke]

Around the stations, nav beacons and especially installations (I think relay, comms, government etc installations would be really important for Powers and they wouldn't want a random opforce agent messing around them, especially since causing trouble is the only reason for a random pilot to be there at all—so we need opportunities for making trouble at these, too), at signal sources, random interdict-and-scans while travelling. Frequency should be dependent on system PP level, ongoing undermining activity and BGS states. As it is now, it's inconsistent, too random and too infrequent. About the only places you actually get active resistance now is at power wreckage and weapons fire signals, but even there it's too inconsistent.

And why not around a carrier though? If one is a rival PP pledge and intruding its logical hostile PP NPCs (just as BGS security reflects your standing with that faction with a carrier).

I think his problem was his own carrier's reaction, not the place where NPCs could attack him.

Its this point I agree with the OP- it is illogical, but the problem lies in a player owning a moving station and if you were backed up by a carrier you could easily farm BGS security. But saying that one aspect that is (or was, never tested since) was that ATR are persistent around a carrier once you have them...however FCs can't damage them and ATR can't damage the FC IIRC.

 

[Shurimal]

And why not around a carrier though? If one is a rival PP pledge and intruding its logical hostile PP NPCs (just as BGS security reflects your standing with that faction with a carrier).

They could. But they shouldn't get away with it and should be reduced to space dust by my crew at the carrier So, they shouldn't be programmed to attack me at my carrier just to give them some semblance of intelligence

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

I fully agree with carriers being on your side though- however we rent them and Brewer (IIRC lore wise) are a neutral third party and act as such.

That is the point here. These things aren't our carriers. We have paid a lease to brewer for the right to use the things and the expanded services and pay the wages for their employees weekly.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

Ah, the good ol' Stalin approach: "If in doubt, purge!"

Fun fact: this mindset cost Stalin his life.

He was a murderous one, constantly suspicious, quick to turn on anybody, even his own family. One day, however, someone betrayed him, somebody he could not have shot (not without dire consequences): his own body.

He suffered a stroke, fell down, and was found by his aide, prone on the carpet. The aide supposedly did a double-take and ran out to call somebody else. Finally, somebody thought of getting his personal physician. A smart man, who knew Stalin rather well, and had no doubts that, having seen THE MAN OF IRON being utterly helpless, he, the doctor, would receive his compensation for helping . . . in the shape of a bullet to the back of the head.

So, the physician refused to treat him, everybody else went along with the physician, and Stalin passed away, unmourned.

If you have to be absolutely ruthless, be it only to your enemies, treat your own friends and allies well. Otherwise, prepare to go like the Man of Iron...

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

That is the point here. These things aren't our carriers. We have paid a lease to brewer for the right to use the things and the expanded services and pay the wages for their employees weekly.

Good point, with one flaw: the crew ARE being PAID by the COMMANDERS, NOT Brewer Corp. Surely that should incite some loyalty? The CARRIERS are an entirely different kettle of fish.

Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking, but the explanation that the carriers are leased, not owned, isn't sufficient -- unless the crews are Brewer's, in which case, they can bloody well pay them, haha...

 

[Aashenfox]

And why not around a carrier though? If one is a rival PP pledge and intruding its logical hostile PP NPCs (just as BGS security reflects your standing with that faction with a carrier).

Its this point I agree with the OP- it is illogical, but the problem lies in a player owning a moving station and if you were backed up by a carrier you could easily farm BGS security. But saying that one aspect that is (or was, never tested since) was that ATR are persistent around a carrier once you have them...however FCs can't damage them and ATR can't damage the FC IIRC.

You're not wrong. I still want it changed. <3

 

[Walter2]

And the system ships that patrol the space round the FC are there to protect the FC, not you.