Worrying trend...

[JeffRyan]

I haven't posted much over the weekend. But when I have, the posts have more often than not had an anger behind them I don't usually have. What's making me angry is the attack on the game, the forums and the tone of them (which, obviously now I'm not helping).

We all know the game has issues. Part of the problem I'm feeling is that I no longer feel I can discuss them. Not actually because of the issues, downsides or whatever, but because I feel that every problem the game has has already been attacked, disected and pointed at as the reason the game will fail.

It feels like everyone posting a positive comment is attacked as a blind fanboi, anyone pointing at the cool things is swatted as being an ignorant buffoon for his obvious gullibility. Everyone who says this is the foundation of the game as it should be is shouted down because it doesn't meet the MMO expectations of those raised on WoW-clones and EVE and any other way of doing things is obviously wrong.

There are a lot of things I don't like in the game, a few things I'm disappointed in that aren't here for launch. But I no longer feel I can discuss them as I'd just be attacking something that really doesn't need to be attacked anymore. The tone of the forums has taken a nosedive, there are no longer discussions. Just shouting matches.

 

[Rykzon]

The main problem with many of those posts you are talking about is, we've all been there. I was blown away by the sheer scale of the game aswell in the first few hours I played. But as that faded away I started to look into all the systems that make the game run(trading/bounties/piracy). Thats when you have to realize there is much work to do still to make this game working as it deserves. I could say the same about everyone coming to the games defense when you try to start a thread discussing the games problems. They come out without having even properly explored the areas of the game you talk about and claim "its all good, you just have to learn how to play the game, its not as easy as other games".

 

[jpinard]

I haven't posted much over the weekend. But when I have, the posts have more often than not had an anger behind them I don't usually have. What's making me angry is the attack on the game, the forums and the tone of them (which, obviously now I'm not helping).

We all know the game has issues. Part of the problem I'm feeling is that I no longer feel I can discuss them. Not actually because of the issues, downsides or whatever, but because I feel that every problem the game has has already been attacked, disected and pointed at as the reason the game will fail.

It feels like everyone posting a positive comment is attacked as a blind fanboi, anyone pointing at the cool things is swatted as being an ignorant buffoon for his obvious gullibility. Everyone who says this is the foundation of the game as it should be is shouted down because it doesn't meet the MMO expectations of those raised on WoW-clones and EVE and any other way of doing things is obviously wrong.

There are a lot of things I don't like in the game, a few things I'm disappointed in that aren't here for launch. But I no longer feel I can discuss them as I'd just be attacking something that really doesn't need to be attacked anymore. The tone of the forums has taken a nosedive, there are no longer discussions. Just shouting matches.

I could not agree more hence: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68094

 

[kilvenny]

Classic problem of early access - you end up playing many hours and nothing is fresh any more. So instead of viewing it as a new game you see all the warts and imperfections. For ED this is made worse because its not styled as a classic MMO and most people like to pigeon hole games in order to make comparisons. The more people highlight the warts, the quicker new players see them. I also think that release is seen as "complete" release whereas its simply a launch pad with more development to come.

Dont see a solution and I have certainly reduced my posting.

 

[Cmdr Cupcake]

Maybe people are passionate in their discussions because they really care about this game and want it to succeed? ED shows so much potential, I just hope it gets the traction to allow an ongoing development. God, just look how much money SC is raking in. It would be a dream if ED could get anywhere near that level of funding.
Another thing that worries me a bit: Right now, I feel ED is a hardcore game for loners. Gameplay has moved on in the last decades. Remember when wiggling your joystick like crazy accounted for gameplay in those early sports games? On a similar note, most people don't value spreadsheet calculations as game experience. I really hope Frontier gets the chance to flesh out those barebone systems, to build on the great foundation they established. I'll keep my fingers crossed...

 

[Zephyr]

I had similar feelings to yours, but I eventually stopped caring. Elite;Dangerous will never be the game I envisioned it to be and no number of threads, constructive or otherwise is going to change that. My energy and anger is better spent elsewhere. Oh well, maybe Star Citizen will be good when it comes out in a few years.

 

[Tyr07]

Part of the problem is I've seen posts that are to deliberately say something positive about the game, in direct response to someones negative response. It also seems that a lot of the time people aren't able to just post something they found cool, but that they need to slip in an insult and slight those who are concerned about some of the designs that are not favorable at this time.

You're not alone, people on both sides, the reasonable more cool headed ones want to post their opinions, but even the people discussing issues they have with the game get slapped in the face 500 times with the word BUT ITS GAMMA.

When in reality they should be concerned, as many other developers have left things unsaid or undone until moment before release and said 'Too bad'.
Consumers are not doormats, gamers less so than others. We do not appreciate being treated as a group of people who will buy any garbage thrown out (Not implying that ED is).

People should continue to voice their concerns, the whole, it was said once, everyone let it go concept isn't acceptable. Letting something go is akin to calling it resolved, or delt with, or answered.

It doesn't always work to just stick your head down. If you're not doing something someone wants done, sometimes they only get results by pushing you constantly so you understand how much of a concern this is to them.

I think in the end you're entitled to your opinion. If there is something you're not happy with, you have a right to express it, if there is something you thought was cool, you also have a right to express it.
All your post really says is 'Okay stop it, it's been said'

The general response from people with issues with the game are more likely going to be 'Okay fine, refund me then or fix it.'

 

[SharkH]

I had similar feelings to yours, but I eventually stopped caring. Elite;Dangerous will never be the game I envisioned it to be and no number of threads, constructive or otherwise is going to change that. My energy and anger is better spent elsewhere. Oh well, maybe Star Citizen will be good when it comes out in a few years.

For me its the opposite I was a subsciber for the SC newletter from the "beggining" and I had been following its developement and haven't heard of Eliteangerous before but I found it browsing the forums there and other sites about SC. And now its seems that SC might won't become a game I was looking for but ED may will. There is too much hype about SC they aim it for a much wider audience and they will have to make a lot of compromises because of that. I felt it like SC had been started to develop as a real flight simulator but will end up as an arcade mouse shooter with "planes" I still hope I am wrong but usually thats the genre what the "mainstream market" goes for.

Edit: Sorry My opinion about the OP that I partly agree but I still can find decent discussions about some issue and I have seen well written constructive criticism in the past few weeks too. Its just that there are more "Rant" thread made recently and there are a lot of new members with maybe too high expectation and maybe with lack of lots of information about this game. And thats where their frustration comes from. Beside a lot of these post I have read have been written in mind like the game developement would be stopped on the 16th of December. Ahh and one more thing... FD shouldn't had to advertise this game as MMO because a lot of people will not see that as a technical term but as the rule based on their past experiences about what content and features/mechanics an MMO game "must" have.

 

[Nauht]

It swings both ways OP.

Real constructive criticisms have been met with exactly the same tone you say. We all know the somewhat cliched responses now by both sides.

Both sides are guilty.

 

[littleminxundr]

I haven't posted much over the weekend. But when I have, the posts have more often than not had an anger behind them I don't usually have. What's making me angry is the attack on the game, the forums and the tone of them (which, obviously now I'm not helping).

We all know the game has issues. Part of the problem I'm feeling is that I no longer feel I can discuss them. Not actually because of the issues, downsides or whatever, but because I feel that every problem the game has has already been attacked, disected and pointed at as the reason the game will fail.

It feels like everyone posting a positive comment is attacked as a blind fanboi, anyone pointing at the cool things is swatted as being an ignorant buffoon for his obvious gullibility. Everyone who says this is the foundation of the game as it should be is shouted down because it doesn't meet the MMO expectations of those raised on WoW-clones and EVE and any other way of doing things is obviously wrong.

There are a lot of things I don't like in the game, a few things I'm disappointed in that aren't here for launch. But I no longer feel I can discuss them as I'd just be attacking something that really doesn't need to be attacked anymore. The tone of the forums has taken a nosedive, there are no longer discussions. Just shouting matches.

I don't really agree. The problem is that both sides are pushing their vision as the truth and that has nothing to do with the game. It's just the Internet at work; one can be a terribad so one is a terribad. That easy.
All the negative posts have basis to them; ED is simply not all that. Those complaints usually get countered with 'it'll get better after launch, some expansions and a handfull of DLC'.

Sadly, a lot of players, including me, aren't buying a game five years into the future, we're buying a game now. We already played the techdemos, didn't we?

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

For me its the opposite I was a subsciber for the SC newletter from the "beggining" and I had been following its developement and haven't heard of Eliteangerous before but I found it browsing the forums there and other sites about SC. And now its seems that SC might won't become a game I was looking for but ED may will. There is too much hype about SC they aim it for a much wider audience and they will have to make a lot of compromises because of that. I felt it like SC had been started to develop as a real flight simulator but will end up as an arcade mouse shooter with "planes" I still hope I am wrong but usually thats the genre what the "mainstream market" goes for.

If you think or thought SC was going to be a sim style game, you should do some research into Mr Roberts' history (especially the interactive movie stuff).

 

[JeffRyan]

I don't really agree. The problem is that both sides are pushing their vision as the truth and that has nothing to do with the game. It's just the Internet at work; one can be a terribad so one is a terribad. That easy.
All the negative posts have basis to them; ED is simply not all that. Those complaints usually get countered with 'it'll get better after launch, some expansions and a handfull of DLC'.

Sadly, a lot of players, including me, aren't buying a game five years into the future, we're buying a game now. We already played the techdemos, didn't we?

I don't think the game is bad. I think it needs more content and bug fixing. But it's not fundamentally flawed.

 

[SharkH]

If you think or thought SC was going to be a sim style game, you should do some research into Mr Roberts' history (especially the interactive movie stuff).

I don't think ... I did think after I have seen the first some interview with him about SC.

 

[SharkH]

Its the same with me, i first backed SC in the thought they make something more like an space-RPG-simulator and now it seems like they do what you just said.
I dont have much faith in SC but i am open to get surprised. I was never really impressed from the work of chris roberts but i always was impressed from Elite. Thats why i am here now and i really love ED while i also see its flaws.(pretty similar to the flaws of Evochron Mercenary)

Only time will tell which game i will enjoy more.
But in the end i am very very happy that after a long time, there are now two games in a genre which i thought was dead.

I am sure I will try SC also no matter what because I like Space and Sci-fi after Its released but I have no idea when that will happen.

 

[gamecat]

I had similar feelings to yours, but I eventually stopped caring. Elite;Dangerous will never be the game I envisioned it to be and no number of threads, constructive or otherwise is going to change that. My energy and anger is better spent elsewhere. Oh well, maybe Star Citizen will be good when it comes out in a few years.

Bye then, 1 more down...

 

[charognard]

Its the same with me, i first backed SC in the thought they make something more like an space-RPG-simulator and now it seems like they do what you just said.
I dont have much faith in SC but i am open to get surprised. I was never really impressed from the work of chris roberts but i always was impressed from Elite. Thats why i am here now and i really love ED while i also see its flaws.(pretty similar to the flaws of Evochron Mercenary)

Only time will tell which game i will enjoy more.
But in the end i am very very happy that after a long time, there are now two games in a genre which i thought was dead.

Evochron mercenaries the only and Best combat space sim ^^

 

[justintime]

I agree that things are not especially cordial here on the forums now a days... I think this is a symptom of a somewhat unhappy fan base. The overall happiness of the forum population is tied inexorably to the health and well being of the game as a whole. That is just the nature of things. The fact that the apparent schism of the population into the "this game is fine" and "this game is not fine", has to do with several factors. First, the somewhat unfinished nature of the game at the moment and second, the rapidly approaching release that many say may make or break the game financially.

My personal views aside, I think these feelings of unrest on the forums will largely go away once the release is safely at our backs. At this point, regardless of the game's reception, I'm sure that players will for the most part calm down. I really think most of this is simply a reaction to a fast approaching "deadline" where the game is going to be judged based on what is has and what it doesn't.

 

[ste]

I agree that things are not especially cordial here on the forums now a days... I think this is a symptom of a somewhat unhappy fan base. The overall happiness of the forum population is tied inexorably to the health and well being of the game as a whole. That is just the nature of things. The fact that the apparent schism of the population into the "this game is fine" and "this game is not fine", has to do with several factors. First, the somewhat unfinished nature of the game at the moment and second, the rapidly approaching release that many say may make or break the game financially.

My personal views aside, I think these feelings of unrest on the forums will largely go away once the release is safely at our backs. At this point, regardless of the game's reception, I'm sure that players will for the most part calm down. I really think most of this is simply a reaction to a fast approaching "deadline" where the game is going to be judged based on what is has and what it doesn't.

I think it will be even worse come release, cos alot of peoples expectations of what is possible by release is unrealistic.

People are expecting a finished game on the 16th and if its not finished we are stuck with it forever.

I think some people have never heard of a post release patch.

 

[gamecat]

I don't really agree. The problem is that both sides are pushing their vision as the truth and that has nothing to do with the game. It's just the Internet at work; one can be a terribad so one is a terribad. That easy.
All the negative posts have basis to them; ED is simply not all that. Those complaints usually get countered with 'it'll get better after launch, some expansions and a handfull of DLC'.

Sadly, a lot of players, including me, aren't buying a game five years into the future, we're buying a game now. We already played the techdemos, didn't we?

'Its not all that' !? I think it's statements like this that belittle what has already been achieved that can anger people. The peer to peer instancing is a technical feat, the procedural galaxy development is very impressive, the dogfighting is engaging and cleverly put together. ED is creating a niche game independently. If this was EA and was just a shoot up fest but ran perfectly and followed standard AAA title tropes with a great tutorial you'd be complaining it lacks depth or astronomical authenticity or some other lack. The relatively small budget but big vision the team has I expected something had to suffer a bit and I think the lack of rich content is fine as long as the base engine, mechanics and nuts and bolts work, which they do.

If the game is no different to Gamma when released I'm still happy. Eve was the same when it launched, but look at it now. I love the opening up of the universe and with layers of content and features added over time. I don't see a problem with this approach plus it's not a subscription model which is incredible.

People really need to go away and think seriously about who has achieved anywhere near what these guys have, then imagine a world before ED and tell me they preferred that with the money they spent back in their pockets and no decent space sim for another 5 years, because SC is no where near yet.

 

[Mephane]

I haven't posted much over the weekend. But when I have, the posts have more often than not had an anger behind them I don't usually have. What's making me angry is the attack on the game, the forums and the tone of them (which, obviously now I'm not helping).

We all know the game has issues. Part of the problem I'm feeling is that I no longer feel I can discuss them. Not actually because of the issues, downsides or whatever, but because I feel that every problem the game has has already been attacked, disected and pointed at as the reason the game will fail.

It feels like everyone posting a positive comment is attacked as a blind fanboi, anyone pointing at the cool things is swatted as being an ignorant buffoon for his obvious gullibility. Everyone who says this is the foundation of the game as it should be is shouted down because it doesn't meet the MMO expectations of those raised on WoW-clones and EVE and any other way of doing things is obviously wrong.

There are a lot of things I don't like in the game, a few things I'm disappointed in that aren't here for launch. But I no longer feel I can discuss them as I'd just be attacking something that really doesn't need to be attacked anymore. The tone of the forums has taken a nosedive, there are no longer discussions. Just shouting matches.

The game has entered the phase which in typical MMOs would be marketed as Open Beta. Even though access in this case is not free-for-all without previous beta access, it is the time when the game receives a lot of attention and people have a lot of anxiety about whether the game will deliver or not - far too many an MMO has disappointed either in performance, number of bugs, server issues, or simply the game being actually just bad. So many hype trains ultimately derailed, so many expectations failed to be met - a lot of people nowadays interpret anything not going 100% smooth as a sign of imminent demise.

Which is in fact ridiculous because even WoW's latest expansion release was troubled by massive technical problems and still the expansion sold well and the game has gained a significant amount of new and returning players - even severe bugs or servers issues do not automatically confer an inherently broken game.

And many who just had a first look yet, not being prepared for the kind of game that ED is (open world, no hand-holding, no theme park, no save-the-world-chosen-one story to follow etc.), or not even having played the game yet themselves but just preordered the Mercenary Edition - would see the many threads of imminent doom and get very afraid, possibly contributing further to that atmosphere.

Meanwhile, people who have both been with the game since at least the early beta phases and experience other MMO beta processes tend to be very complacent in the knowledge that ED is very much unlike the typical MMO in pretty much every aspect.

One simple and common example: it is almost expected that some of the bugs in a newly released MMO also affect the quests, and indeed there have been many cases of major quests necessary to advance the primary plot (often also necessary to access certain content or game features) being outright broken, and your game progress is effectively halted.

Now think about ED in comparison, let's say you would get into an utterly broken mission - you just abandon it, maybe pay a fine and dump/sell some now stolen cargo, and then go on with your business elsewhere. A star system that would cause the game client to crash before entry, as we had in the past - well there's plenty of others to fly to. An instance with too much lag - just supercruise out and go somewhere else.

The list goes on and one. The usual MMO equivalents for these kinds of issues (broken quests, crashing zones, server lag etc.) can be crippling or game halting, in ED you simply walk around most of them.

If ED would ship with the same severity of bugs as other MMOs usually do, we'd simply adapt our play style a bit until they are resolved.

And this is all while in fact right now in the Gamma phase, ED has fewer issues and bugs than pretty much any MMO at release I have experienced so far. Which is the reason why I remain very calm admist this ongoing storm - I have seen many bad MMO launches (my #1 prize for this goes to the Warhammer Online EU launch aka "codename 404" aka the "we g told you so" day), I can see the signs when they are there, and I can identify bad, boring or uninspiring game mechanics now after very little time (like, I got bored of Wildstar already after having used like half of the time on a guest pass), and you know what?

And I see none of this in ED.