Make Trading less 17th Century....simple, easy, small change


Ahhh there it is, I was looking for that thread too :p

And the galaxy map DD opens with
  • Provide useful information to enable the player to make interesting decisions
  • Encourage the player to visit new locations

I just don't see the invalid / backwards information enabling interesting decisions and encouraging moving forward.
Such as: I am at an extraction economy, on my way to <distant star> there is a large population refinery economy en-route, maybe I should take <commodity> and sell it during my fuel stop.. only to find when you get there, they are selling their raw materials off for much more than you bought them.. you would have been better off taking them what they supposedly produce rather than what they should naturally require.
 
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Really not sure why people find it so difficult. Even i can understand it and make money at it... I have high tech, industrial, refinery, extraction and agricultural in my home systems and they all produce certain commodities that are required somewhere else for a profit. It may not always be a massive profit but its regular and pretty consistent. I dont have a spreadsheet or a notebook or any other memory aid. Im not really fussed whether i make mega bucks and i dont think the game balance is intended for this to happen now. Im sure 1k per unit trades are available but im not really concerned about that aspect as im too busy working the systems and building reputation
 
Really not sure why people find it so difficult. Even i can understand it and make money at it... I have high tech, industrial, refinery, extraction and agricultural in my home systems and they all produce certain commodities that are required somewhere else for a profit. It may not always be a massive profit but its regular and pretty consistent. I dont have a spreadsheet or a notebook or any other memory aid. Im not really fussed whether i make mega bucks and i dont think the game balance is intended for this to happen now. Im sure 1k per unit trades are available but im not really concerned about that aspect as im too busy working the systems and building reputation

Did I say it was difficult ? It's tedious, I already have a job (not that that requires me to manually input 30 values every 10 minutes).

You don't trade, but your sure its fine....and you guess the deficiencies in the trade computer are part of plan to achieve balance ?

And your not bothered about this aspect of the game anyway......

PS I think your faction improves by trading.

PPS And how are you going with knowing what effect any action you have has on your reputation and how you are progressing with it .... coz that part of the game is also somewhat underdone
 
Although this colour coding makes it easier to see "bargains" it doesn't do anything that your eyes can't do, and that is to compare the galactic average price and the current sale price.

And regarding the Cr for another system, where you would need to then choose whether you want the buy or sale price, I think there would have to be some inaccuracy here. In other words it would only display the prices as they were when you last visited or when you recently bought data for that system. If you hadn't been there in some time then that's the risk you take.
 
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Yes!

I've always thought this was sorely missing from other space sims that I've played. I'm not sure how this would break immersion more than having to write all that info down on paper. Would LOVE to see this feature implemented.
 
Yup. Beats the hell out of taking photos of the computer screen with my phone. Although I think I'd like the ability to click on a commodity and for it to take to me a new screen that gave me a list of the systems I'd been to and gave the buy price (if appropriate), the sell price and the system's distance from my current location (complete with the aforementioned colour coding for the age of the data)

Is this making trading too easy? I don't think so, it's just taking a lot of the faff out of the current system.
 
Sorry wall of text, and I seem to be picking on tailgunner :) you are the only one really presenting an arguement, although I don't agree with the op on the implementation of trade computer/data. Old news is old news and just that. Anecdotal nostalgic information, and nostalgia (pen and paper is half the problem!).

I am sorry, I do not agree with this idea. It defeats the whole concept of the game. It would take the risk out of trading, and result in players hanging around in a small area, trading goods that they know will bring them good profits.

Well that would be instantly sorted out by having dynamic prices in the universe. The more a commodity is traded, the lower the price becomes? Stay in Eranin or wherever when what your trading rock bottoms out, the rest of us will head off to other systems, seeking data to complement our sophisticated set of trading and route planning tools, which I sincerely hope are coming. This seems not only an obvious solution but it had better be in the game. Static prices are going to be far more immersion breaking than adding in something that should already be an optional upgradeable suite or removing/changing interdiction. Isn't this more or less the case? My trading never found high profit repeatable routes, just half decent (500+ per item) that were somewhat static. The prices do change but I don't know if that's us trading or just the game manipulating prices.

I do not trade much as I mostly run missions, I would like the idea of a 'courier' role, after working up reputations with various factions, allowing access to high value sensitive deliveries. But that aside, the idea of simply presenting information to the player that entirely, or for the most part removes the risk of trading would be wrong.

The trading screen would display a news ticker along the top of the screen, displaying brief summaries of events in systems local to the starport that the player is located at. These might go along the lines of "Eranin: War and food shortages has led to riots in the streets of the capitol", "Freeport: the discovery of new resources has lead to a 'gold rush' at the station", "Aulin: A major company releases a new product that revolutionises robotics" These sort of news items might lead the trader to consider moving food, personal and non-lethal weapons to Eranin. Mineral extractors and HE suits to Freeport and superconductors, polymers and metals to Aulin. This adds to the living galaxy without the hand-holding the the OP's idea provides.

This news ticker is a good idea but only as an enriching component to the game, probably the whole game. It sounds like it could give people an incentive to move out and try new systems just for the hell of it rather than because my silvers now worth very little where I was. But I don't think in any way that is a substitute for a purchasable trading suite that would add another tab to the flight computers and give different information based on the price and quality of the suite. Cheap ones will indicate the stations selling/buying silver within 10Ly while more expensive suites, or upgrades to the suite will give prices (accurate to within x credits, how much was your suite?!) and increase the range. Total universe range would be silly.

If you want the tables, and spreadsheets, then by all means create them. I personally enjoy the challenge, surprise and frustration that trading provides, when I do it.

Well, maybe when you do it, when you have a cargo hold that will earn more credits than even one of those ~200k hunting missions, and you end up flying from station to system to system looking for somewhere to unload because someone in the 34th century didn't build the equivalent of a modem into space stations to allow communications of data you will turn to your outdated collection of paper excel scraps and lose 100cr per item because it's out of date. Immersing.

No one would be forcing you to use it if you want to use paper because nostalgia is more important than progression. You will get to the same credit balance as you wanted to get to, you might get lucky on a mooch or whatever but apparently it's not the destination that counts. Where as we are all forced to wing it as it stands.

That is not what the game is about.

No, apparently the game is about trading or so I thought, or at least that is a more than crucial component of it. Now you mention it I really like the idea of people buying large amounts of stock and deliberately manipulating markets. You talk about risk. How about we risk some 500 million credits stashing palladium away somewhere and the plan doesnt work? Thats substantially more risk and effort than anything I think any of us have pulled off so far. Corruption is clearly part of the lore here and dodgy traders? I'm quite liking it.

As i said, build your spreadsheets, collate your tables, as you wish, but you put the effort in, to obtain the reward.

Again, there is risk. The risk of flying a half decent cargo hold ship (lets forget the hauler!) and the cost of the goods inside. There are still interdictions to give us 'risk'

I don't agree with the op (sorry!) that a trading computer feature should be restricted to old data from past visits. I think that in this day and age (2014), given I can shop around for internet stock trading software for variety of commodities with slightly different refresh rates of data right now. If I want the best trading software for commodities I had better get my hand in my pocket and buy one, see where I'm going? That flight computer should be remembering an awful lot more than it does for 3300.

I also do not want to see whatever trading extensions we are permitted to have being limited to a tablet device. Shocking I know, I don't own one. So I need to shell out another £70 + whatever FD may or may not charge for the app to get the most out of my game? When there is a flight computer to my right and a flight computer to my left. Anything requiring a peripheral device like that should be strictly optional.
 
I also do not want to see whatever trading extensions we are permitted to have being limited to a tablet device. Shocking I know, I don't own one. So I need to shell out another £70 + whatever FD may or may not charge for the app to get the most out of my game? When there is a flight computer to my right and a flight computer to my left. Anything requiring a peripheral device like that should be strictly optional.

My original post was intended to change NOTHING (so as to make it easy, none lore breaking, non immersion breaking) other than the CHORE of having to manually type in (I personally obviously have a hired clerk...but others may well need to blot the paper themselves).

In a better case, I would expect a mix of my idea in the OP (obviously prettier) and the stuff in the DDR...with tickers telling us local events that effect prices, and as you say probably a list of prices AT LEAST from that 'system and its neighbours/local fashion) that are as upto date as communications tech. could explain. With the odd exceptions for pirates/other factions/secret bases blah blah.

So my OP is a STOP-GAP until we get the real deal. I would even be happy to buy with in-game cred an updated more powah trading comp.

I am ok with second screen app's as an ADDITION but not as a unique functional benefit.

I am generally against commuity build databases as A) they can be manipulated b) they could be commercialised and c) they may break rules of the game from a lore/immersion perspective
 
I want this...I'm buying trade data so GIVE ME TRADE DATA!!!
Also if I visit a station why can't I save the trade data in my ship computer for
reference later?
Nothing overpowered or immersion breaking about this.

Edit: This post should be in the Gameplay and Features sub though.

Right! I find it amusing to have to take photos with my iphone of the trade data of another station :D
 
I wasn't going to post again, in this thread, as I have had my say, however I do not feel picked on, I stated my opinion, that I disagree with the idea of historical/real time data. If it is implemented in game via virtual notepads/logs then fine. I rely upon my imperfect memory, as to where I might make a good trade, and some basic rules of thumb. At present I have a Cobra, with 34 tonnes of cargo space, beam lasers and a few upgrades. 500,000 approx. credits in the bank. I used only the ingame tools and missions to gather this. Sometimes I get lucky and pick up a mission to find SuperConductors, profit 100,000 Credits, sometimes not, bought gold at a refinery, turned out the price was wrong, sold it a few stations later for a small loss. I am in no great hurry, and will continue to navigate the material continuum in search of profit with my wits, a small ship and credits to trade with.

208th Rule of Acquisition: Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer.
 
@tailgunner... with you on this one and rep. 32t cobra, full exploration kit and upgrades, 600k in the bank and all through skill and brain cells. not too concerned about the best mega trade ever, just steady profit and few mistakes. and not a spreadheet or a notebook or screenshot neede. what is the problem?
 
Guys, why waving your e-wallet and superior brain cells :D ? I am a lazy rich s and I want to record the price in each station I visit, maybe FD will find a way to please both type of players ^^
 
I am sorry, I do not agree with this idea. It defeats the whole concept of the game. It would take the risk out of trading, and result in players hanging around in a small area, trading goods that they know will bring them good profits.

.....right, that's why we don't share stock data worldwide - defeats the risk factor, right? Oh, wait....

I already hang around small areas (say no more than 5 or 6 systems apart) while I take advantage of the highest trade in that area, which usually goes along with cargo missions. Once it dwindles, I move on.

I'd be more inclined to take more risk if I knew just a few jumps further would result in a worthy trade. Instead as I build CR, I want to take as little risk as possible, while maximizing profits....wait, I think that's the point of trade, right?
 
The problem is that you will have information at your fingertips that removes a substantial amount of the risk in buying stock to sell elsewhere. The markets do not move much in a 24 hour period. The current model falls within the concept of the game, that trading information is closely guarded by the factions that control the markets.

As I said, you can create the tables yourself with a small input of effort, is your play not worth that little effort.

I like it the way it is, me a ship, a few credits and my wits.

If markets do not move much in 24 hours, then the risk is unchanged, REGARDLESS of whether you memorise the data, write in on paper, photograph it on i-phone or get the game to do that for.

The true 'risk', if any, is that somebody else gets there before you and changes the market value.

Your argument that it reduces risk is therefore spurious at best.
 
I want this...I'm buying trade data so GIVE ME TRADE DATA!!!
Also if I visit a station why can't I save the trade data in my ship computer for
reference later?
Nothing overpowered or immersion breaking about this.

Edit: This post should be in the Gameplay and Features sub though.

+infinite

I bought trading data and got - nothing (just a imports/exports comment). WTH?

The ship's computer definitely has some capacities left to store commodities markets' data from where I have been to already. Add the timestamp (so I know how outdated it could probably be) and I'm fine. And let me trade that data (if there should be any need - I mean I can "buy" trading data (what data? - the system data already tells me, what every station imports, exports, prohibits)).
 
+1 op.

Alot more information tracking is necessary in the game. People make fun of eve for being "excel in space" but at least you're not manually doing data entry or jotting notes all day. I can go on my computer now in 2014 and get prices for anything in the world instantly. In the far future im sure simple communication would be possible: after all the bounties communicate instantly so the technology must be there.

I feel like the developers are stuck in the mindset of the past, still envisioning the future of the 1980s.

If you dont make the game more user friendly and less tedious (especially where it doesnt add to the challenge of gameplay) then many won't play and the game wont build up a population
 
Trade data is guarded jealously by individual star systems. To leave with trade data would be breaking the law and result in a bounty on your head.
 
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