No it doesn't. You don't need to put a label on something in order to appreciate it. The genre is only there to give people a very vague idea of what to expect.
Lovely review, really felt for the guy
- Thread starter Jason S
- Start date
No it doesn't. You don't need to put a label on something in order to appreciate it. The genre is only there to give people a very vague idea of what to expect.
Mike Evans and Sandro Sammarco have stated a dozen of times that ED is not a realistic simulator of space flight but a WW2 style atmospheric space combat game to allow for fun dogfights ala Star Wars. So i guess they are both wrong then ...
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We know it's not a realistic simulator of space flight (the game would be awful if it were) but the galaxy is as realistic as you'll find in any game so put both together and it's quite ok to call the game a "simulator" imo.
If you check Steam's "simulation" genre you'll see all sorts like the X-series in there as well. I think it's a bit harsh to dismiss the entire review out of hand because it isn't Falcon or something else though (note I'm not saying I agree with the review btw). For me ED *is* a simulator, but it's a galaxy simulator more than a game right now.
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Well I thought the reviewer expressed well the fondness that many have for the game and that the latest version still has elements that continue the spirit and does it very very well. So although it may get bad review due to low content after the 16th I think we will see some great reviews as well due to what there is actually being very very well done.
At this stage probably ED is like marmite.
And this talk of simulation or not argument is a bit perdantic.
At this stage probably ED is like marmite.
And this talk of simulation or not argument is a bit perdantic.
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I'd like it to be captivating and exciting (i.e. fun) to people other than nerdy anoraks, personally. I don't want to go through a 20 minute checklist before every take off. Your mileage may vary. The fact is that it's a game first and foremost, and the devs have said at every turn that fun always trumps realism when they are making design decisions. The decision about what constitutes fun is theirs to make, as it should be; we decided to back a game that they were tasked to envisage and implement, after all.
If you are after realism based upon our current understanding of science, Orbiter is already available to play.
If we're going to be making stuff up, however, what differentiates "real" made up stuff from "fake" made up stuff? We're both just staring at clouds here, but you're getting angry because someone else sees a fish where you see a bear.
Captain Zoe E Summers
Banned
Very, very, very wrong.
It's neither a 'fun' model of space combat, nor is it ANYTHING LIKE an 'atmospheric space combat game with fun dogfights like Star Wars'.
You know what star was had? BANKED TURNS.
You know why? Because George Lucas took it almost shot for shot from a couple of WW2 movies he had cut in before the special effects were even designed. It's the way he demoed it to Spielberg.
And you know why he didn't do 'spaceflight' type combat? So the knuckle dragging cinema going noobs could relate it to something they might have some clue about because they'd seen the same dogfighting movies.
And that's the same poor decision that Mike and Sandro have made except they went even further and broke the flight model...just 'because'.
Unlike Star wars that does do banked turns (with yaw) here we can't do them at all - despite the two videos showing you can.
So the broke their own design... and instead of listening to those of us that know about this stuff and have been telling them since early Alpha, all the Beta cheapskates that joined in later just shout about and blow smoke up their exhaust pipes about how wonderful it is...
And do you know why 'dogfighting' is the way it is? Lift, Drag, Gravity and Thrust. In a knife-fight, all those four things, plus the skill of the pilot, the weight of the aircraft, the weapons systems and the characteristics of the aircraft all come into play.
The enemy has a faster turning circle, so you don't want it to be a turning fight, so you try and go vertical. If you're 'above' them, you have the advantage due to the potential energy involved.
All this is what makes dogfighting 'fun', challenging and ultimately skill based rewarding.
You try and do that in space without some kind of appreciate and respect for the medium you're flying in and the differences it has then you're going to screw up - big time.
You know, just like ED has.
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Nice trolling attempt, but you had months of unobstructed time to convince the devs otherwise and you failed. Perhaps your arguments were weak? Perhaps your chosen flight model was just lousy for gameplay? Feel free to draw your own conclusions. I have.
Early videos and comments from FD suggest that they tried out a few ideas in internal playtests and decided upon this flight model, so it's not like they had preconceived ideas and weren't willing to try anything else.
Anyway, can someone please show me another game that demonstrates why Elite: Tokyo Drift is better, and would work better/be more accessible and more fun to play, given the multiplayer constraints, for the majority of players? I've been asking various people on here for months, and no dice yet. If it exists, I'd like to play it, I will display no loyalty whatsoever if a better game is introduced to me. (Bear in mind that singleplayer games are not being considered.)
I set up a thread in the Other Games subforum for a multiplayer game, in the vein of Elite, featuring a fully-Newtonian flight model. That project seems to have died pretty quickly. Perhaps once the folks "who know about this stuff" were challenged to put their coding skills to the test, they decided that it wasn't worth the bother? Or perhaps they didn't really "know about this stuff" like they claimed? Again, feel free to draw your own conclusions. I have...
I think the ''Space sim'' term is generally used very loosely... more loosely than other sims. I don't really like it, but a lot of people refer to ED and SC as ''space sims'' so eh... it does raise the question: If this is a space sim, then what is Orbiter? Or even KSP?
And don't you dare begin that yaw discussion... we already have a thread for that!
And don't you dare begin that yaw discussion... we already have a thread for that!
I'm a really big fan of science, and things working how they're supposed to. I'm also a Kerbal player, and I really enjoy the realism and difficulty of that game. That being said, I like to relax and zoom around and have fun in ED too. Sure, there's a decent amount of hand-wavium going on, and things aren't 100% realistic. I accept that in the same way that I accept that hobbits and magic don't really exist when I'm watching one of the LOTR movies. It's called "suspension of disbelief". Everyone who consumes fiction (including video games) utilizes this concept to a certain extent.
I can accept that people with an extreme knowledge or passion for a subject will tense up and grind their teeth when the majority of the population uses words incorrectly. After ushima happened, I cringed whenever I heard people (including newscasters) claim that "radiation" from the incident was reaching certain locations miles away. (Technically, it's radioactive contamination...but that distinction is totally lost on most, and I understand that it sounds scarier). That being said, realize that perhaps Mac isn't writing reviews for the hard-core flight simmers out there...he's writing them for the average gamer that just wants to know what a game is about. When one of us common-folk mis-uses a word, you could either quietly sigh and roll your eyes, or you could go all pedantic and elitist (no pun intended).
If a little kid brings home an art project from school and holds it up to you and says "It's a cat!", do you:
1) Appreciate it for what it is, and what they mean it to be, or
2) Scoff and say "No it isn't, it's just construction paper and glue and pipe-cleaners"
While the latter is technically more honest, the former makes you sound like less of a jerk.
I can accept that people with an extreme knowledge or passion for a subject will tense up and grind their teeth when the majority of the population uses words incorrectly. After ushima happened, I cringed whenever I heard people (including newscasters) claim that "radiation" from the incident was reaching certain locations miles away. (Technically, it's radioactive contamination...but that distinction is totally lost on most, and I understand that it sounds scarier). That being said, realize that perhaps Mac isn't writing reviews for the hard-core flight simmers out there...he's writing them for the average gamer that just wants to know what a game is about. When one of us common-folk mis-uses a word, you could either quietly sigh and roll your eyes, or you could go all pedantic and elitist (no pun intended).
If a little kid brings home an art project from school and holds it up to you and says "It's a cat!", do you:
1) Appreciate it for what it is, and what they mean it to be, or
2) Scoff and say "No it isn't, it's just construction paper and glue and pipe-cleaners"
While the latter is technically more honest, the former makes you sound like less of a jerk.
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I think the ''Space sim'' term is generally used very loosely... more loosely than other sims. I don't really like it, but a lot of people refer to ED and SC as ''space sims'' so eh... it does raise the question: If this is a space sim, then what is Orbiter? Or even KSP?
And don't you dare begin that yaw discussion... we already have a thread for that!
They're still spacesims. Just different.
man he really likes to compare two games that so happen to be in space but have different play styles, storylines, and goals...
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Keep in mind you can never see all 400 billion random systems that won't offer much difference anyway...
However. That sets Frontier up with an unlimited (for all intents and purposes) canvas to expand the game which is pretty sweet. If they are able to hang in there and continue on (not that SC couldn't release game play area expansions...but it's still a feather in ED's cap).
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Keep in mind you can never see all 400 billion random systems that won't offer much difference anyway...
However. That sets Frontier up with an unlimited (for all intents and purposes) canvas to expand the game which is pretty sweet. If they are able to hang in there and continue on (not that SC couldn't release game play area expansions...but it's still a feather in ED's cap).
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What's happened to this forum?
Grabbing a coffee and dropping by for a read used to be a highlight of the day
Nowadays it is just a wingefest.People watch the "Worth a buy" video's to see a somewhat unique individuals personal view of the game. As mentioned already on this thread, his X-Rebirth review was a classic, and pretty well summed up the game experience, and why you should steer well clear
In that Elite "pre" review he was pretty open on how his attitude towards the franchise was coloured by the original game being an escape during a bad period in his childhood, it's personal view and refreshing.
Watched the review expecting yet another person who's butt-blasted about the game not being what he personally wanted. I was pleasantly surprised that he seemed to get what Elite was all about and for once we got the perspective of someone who's clearly the target audience of ED. Then I read the rest of the thread... Damn this forum has become a sad place. I don't understand why people who hate the game with such a passion spend so much time on the forums. Do you have nothing better to do than hate? How about you find a game you LIKE instead, and spend some time on their forums?
A few years back I pre-purchased a certain game that made a bunch of promises that made me very excited for it. The game was called "WarZ" and it was a game very similar to DayZ which I played a lot at the time. The game was released and it turned out to be absolute crap that didn't keep any of the promises they made.
You know what I did? I vowed to do more research before pre-purchasing games in the future, and then I went back to games I liked and uninstalled WarZ... Would my life have been better if I would have spent hours and hours on their forums whining about the things I didn't like?
This is not a great comparison because ED is already a great game that delivers on pretty much every promise they've made, but you get the idea.
Life's too short to be wasted on pointless hatred.
A few years back I pre-purchased a certain game that made a bunch of promises that made me very excited for it. The game was called "WarZ" and it was a game very similar to DayZ which I played a lot at the time. The game was released and it turned out to be absolute crap that didn't keep any of the promises they made.
You know what I did? I vowed to do more research before pre-purchasing games in the future, and then I went back to games I liked and uninstalled WarZ... Would my life have been better if I would have spent hours and hours on their forums whining about the things I didn't like?
This is not a great comparison because ED is already a great game that delivers on pretty much every promise they've made, but you get the idea.
Life's too short to be wasted on pointless hatred.
No it does not its part one. and will evolve as MMO do, for the next decade or so.
Simcady is right spot on. Because if your just want to have fun in space it doesn't matter. If you want hardcore simulation it matters.
But it is the norm to call anything in this genre a space sim. So a simcady space sim.
It larly depend what definition and bais you have.
To me simulation is Simulating a real job. For wannee be person or someone who need to train for that job.
this case you " simulating fictional job in fictional real scale galaxy with fictional ruleset
there is lot between double float of arcady 0 to 1 yes sim. So you can be as game more simmy or mild acady to totally abstract to ESA NASA trainer
Dude, I read through your post several times and I cannot for the life of me decipher what you're trying to say. Can someone translate?