Slaves: No Freedom!

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'll grant you, it's just a game. But then this is how we pass on prejudices to younger generations.

Let's not make fun of it, let's abolish it.

Sorry but I have to disagree with that... Dont get me wrong I agree with the rest of the thread and said myself numerous times it is nuts we have to let slaves die the cold death of space

but Elite HAS slavery in, it always has, its part of the DNA of the game.... and ingame slavery is as likely to pass on prejudices to our kids as much as shooting people, and am sure you would not want that taking out of the game.

Censorship of videogames is a slippery slope and one which I think we as gamers need to push back against

just my 2p.

 

[Jenner]

Some systems will buy slaves specifically to free them.

Michael

These systems should be high on the priority list for Imperial conquest.

 

[Helfar]

Sweet! Nice to see one of my threads may have some use for once.

I'd like an option to just free them, maybe even at a cost for new id's/food and what not. Obviously with some rep gain somewhere or other.

Edit: Maybe even tied in with a system for handing in stolen goods for rep.

Woohoo making your own story

 

[Angus]

thank you!

I know it's just bits and pixels. But either venting them into space or reselling them into slavery sooo rubs me the wrong way.

Completely agree - we should be able to blaze our own trail and free these guys!

 

[xDreadnoughtx]

There should be an option to free slaves. I was doing my rounds when I get intercepted, it's an anarchy system so I submit and attack. Before the ship is blown to pieces it drops a couple of canisters of slaves.

It's a conundrum, I don't want to deal in stolen goods, but I can't just leave people floating around in space, even if they are packed up into canisters. So I picked them up and sold them on the black market, but I would have prefered to set them free.

I'm now a criminal for saving lives...

Yes. 100%. I really want to be able to make that choice outside of the mission options.

Have some rep.

 

[Vander Mey jr.]

I guess there are two words we should change now.

A bit touchy, are we? But shooting at each other, or getting killed for pad loitering, is OK?

What else is out there? FarCry? Call of Duty? World of Tanks? War Thunder? All things considered, Elite is a positively tame game. And getting touchy about wordings like this when there's Narcotics, Personal Weapons or Progenitor Cells to be traded...

 

[ankhorion]

I know what you mean but there are missions for liberating slaves from certain factions.

It is not the same, it feels artificial, you can not choose to just hunt slavedrivers,steal their cargo and set them free.

 

[ankhorion]

When I hear the word "slave" I hear another derogatory word in it's place (I won't mention the word here).

When I hear the word "stolen" I hear another word, "thief". No matter the context or excuse.

Well not everyone is interested how others hear words. Slave is a word where people lose their freedom, be they black, white, yellow
of skin. Slavery was ones common in many places, although sometimes under different rules. I know about the many dicussions and how they are sometimes misused to give a part of the world that special glow of, look at me I am politically correct, and you are not. So I have seceral isues with these discussions, and I think they should be held outside the game discussions. Unless valid in the game itself ofcourse.

Now for freeing slaves, I would like that in the game, also to hunt down slaverunners who sell slaves, free the slaves. Like many pirates did, and they let them join the crew of the ship.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

No, not really. In one case, it's personally insulting to me and a race of people, in the other it questions my personal integrity.

I don't play combat in Elite, never have. I don't even carry guns on my ships and defensive equipment only, just trade and explore. I

believe the game claims I can play like I want to. But I don't think we should allow a corporate venture we backed to denigrate a race of people for fun.

So, there you have it.

Race of people? I genuinely do not see how a generic term "slaves" in a fictional future world is, or can be seen as racist.
I loath racism, and in the real world I do not agree with slavery either (tho limited forced work for long term unemployed to "earn" their dole money would be an interesting discussion for another thread and *could* be seen as the 1st step towards imperial slavery)

but I dont think censoring a videogame does anything to help in the education of such topics and neither is asking for such censorship a realistic demand/ expectation imo

 

[SmileyMan]

When I hear the word "slave" I hear another derogatory word in it's place (I won't mention the word here).

When I hear the word "stolen" I hear another word, "thief". No matter the context or excuse.

That must make reading a history book awfully confusing?

 

[IceSerpent]

That must make reading a history book awfully confusing?

I somehow doubt that cmdr Incryptx is into reading history books, otherwise (s)he would be well aware that slavery in general has nothing to do with any specific race.

 

[TannakaObi]

There was once, a long time ago, a sport called American baseball. We named the teams with derogatory names which inflamed the Native American Indians, and eventually the names went away. Just because we were insensitive to a race and a culture and then blamed it on our ignorance, does not mean we should continue just because it was acceptable culture at the time, or part of the games DNA. Not good enough sir.


When I hear the word "slave" I hear another derogatory word in it's place (I won't mention the word here).

When I hear the word "stolen" I hear another word, "thief". No matter the context or excuse.

So, we acknowledge one race and delete the derogatory words from our vocabulary and games, but we exclude all others?

There is a wider audience here than you realize.

Political correctness changes like the wind, for example in the 80's it was deemed PC to use the word coloured instead of black and now it's the opposite.

In the bible, slaves are not only common, but it actually tells you how they should and should not be treated, as if the question whether slavery is right or wrong is not even considered.

There is no need for such discussions in a game like this though as the main point of the game is 'choice' and 'freedom'. That's the choice and freedom to play the game the way you choose, as in evil over good or vise versa. Things like criminality are all part of the game, if you remove them then you have no game. If you don't like that then don't play, and I don't mean that as an insult. I would not let my six year old son play games like GTA for the same reason.

Comparing it too American baseball is silly as that is not a role-play game. I don't know the history of American baseball names so I won't comment, but I can imagine, but it's a very different thing to the portrayal of human behavior. Everything in Elite is 'real' there IS slavery in the world, hiding it won't change that.

EDIT: One thing should be very clear, the criminal representation in Elite has nothing to do with race.

 

[IceSerpent]

Good point - we'll take a look at this.

Michael

Michael, I think it would be a good idea to do this for all stolen goods - something along the lines of a choice between selling goods on a black market and returning those goods to local authorities.

 

[Tronicus]

I have seen the Board missions to free slaves. It would be nice to have the option to free canisters of slaves even if you don't have the mission. Hopefully Micheal will get the DEVs to tweak the cargo for slave cannisters when they are recovered in space.

 

[TannakaObi]

Michael, I think it would be a good idea to do this for all stolen goods - something along the lines of a choice between selling goods on a black market and returning those goods to local authorities.

I was thinking about how this could be done. One way would be to have the option to tag it when you first pick it up, effectively opening a new mission where you have a time limit to hand it over. Failure could lead to the items becoming stolen or a fine.

 

[Mars]

These systems should be high on the priority list for Imperial conquest.

Too right, such brazen disregard for the honorable institution of slavery, they deserve to see the business end of a imperial cruiser.

 

[Mysturji]

Some systems will buy slaves specifically to free them.

Michael

Which ones? A certain faction(s)? Or do you need a mission?

 

[IceSerpent]

I was thinking about how this could be done. One way would be to have the option to tag it when you first pick it up, effectively opening a new mission where you have a time limit to hand it over. Failure could lead to the items becoming stolen or a fine.

Maybe it could be something like this:

- goods taken from a clean ship are always "stolen", like they are now (same mechanic)
- goods taken from a wanted ship or found floating in space are "found" and those items are legal to haul around with an option to either sell on black market or give to authorities under "contacts" tab for a rep increase and reward that is smaller than black market price.

 

[TannakaObi]

Maybe it could be something like this:

- goods taken from a clean ship are always "stolen", like they are now (same mechanic)
- goods taken from a wanted ship or found floating in space are "found" and those items are legal to haul around with an option to either sell on black market or give to authorities under "contacts" tab for a rep increase and reward that is smaller than black market price.

The only problem with that is it works on the assumption that all 'clean' ships are flown (is that the right word?) by non criminals. In my original post the ship that interdicted me was 'clean' which would mean the slaves would still be 'stolen'. I attacked because it was an anarchy system and I was in a rush, that and he was about to fire at me.

 

[Julio Montega]

I happened to run across a slave trader today aswell, liberated 'em into my hold and took off to a station.
I found a philanthropy mission there, saying they will free them, however they do not accept stolen "goods",
as posted before.

It should be changed to accept slaves be them legit or not.