Shield Cells OP

[fergal]

Here you go.

Found another elite anaconda for an assassination mission. This one was very strange, there was another NPC in the USS that started attacking it which made it really really easy.

That aside, I used 2 shield cells, at about 2:10 and 5:20

0 skill to kill NPC anaconda right now, I didn't bother doing anything, and went as close as I would like.

[video=youtube;a9nQAppznVk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9nQAppznVk[/video]

 

[Morbad]

If you are evenly matched, is the number off chaff charges you have left a deciding factor?

If your opponent is using gimbaled or turreted weapons, absolutely.

The number of heatsinks?

Dumping a heatsink can let you fire weapons that would otherwise have overheated, and thus directly increases the amount of damage one is able to deliver to a target over a given period of time.

Also, there are silent running combat loadouts that depend heavily on heatsinks.

The amount of main tank fuel?

I have had to disengage from engagements with other CMDRs since I was risking running out of fuel, and I've killed plenty of CMDRs because their ships were full of useless gadgets that made their ship considerably heavier than mine.

Fuel is weight, and too much weight is very bad for combat, so I typically run a 2T tank in my Viper and a 4T tank in my Cobra (so I don't have to avoid topping off when scooping).

It's good that you have been in a fight where the enemy had SCB's and you won.

SCB's are shield potions for your starship and I think yhis should change.

I don't see any problem with them.

They can't be used in rapid succession, one needs to stop charging before you can pop another one.

The smaller SCB don't fully recharge shields and don't contain many charges.

The larger SCBs are often prohibitively heavy.

Anything Cobra size or smaller can have the best shields it's capable of mounting dropped by weapons a Cobra or Viper can carry in less than two seconds, provided hits are landed, of course.

 

[Defacto]

If your opponent is using gimbaled or turreted weapons, absolutely.



Dumping a heatsink can let you fire weapons that would otherwise have overheated, and thus directly increases the amount of damage one is able to deliver to a target over a given period of time.

Also, there are silent running combat loadouts that depend heavily on heatsinks.



I have had to disengage from engagements with other CMDRs since I was risking running out of fuel, and I've killed plenty of CMDRs because their ships were full of useless gadgets that made their ship considerably heavier than mine.

Fuel is weight, and too much weight is very bad for combat, so I typically run a 2T tank in my Viper and a 4T tank in my Cobra (so I don't have to avoid topping off when scooping).



I don't see any problem with them.

They can't be used in rapid succession, one needs to stop charging before you can pop another one.

The smaller SCB don't fully recharge shields and don't contain many charges.

The larger SCBs are often prohibitively heavy.

Anything Cobra size or smaller can have the best shields it's capable of mounting dropped by weapons a Cobra or Viper can carry in less than two seconds, provided hits are landed, of course.

Those examples are not the same thing, right?

My shield cell bank weighs 4 tonnes, out of the around 250 tonnes of my ship. I have 5 cells and they refill my shields in 4 seconds.
They are shield potions, I find that they cheapen combat, and they are really, really boring.

 

[mitchman]

If anything, the class 5 shield cells should be boosted to contain double the amount of charges. Now they have 11 or so, while a class 3 has 6. So boost class 5 and nerf class 3. They should also be boosted to refill the shield even when shields are down.

 

[defekt]

I very much dislike the inclusion of shield potions; cheapens the combat almost no end. Bad form.

To be honest I had no idea they had charges, I thought they were one-hit wonders. As one-hit wonders they have a place, they can get you out of one sticky situation, but repeated and cheap use just renders combat trivial and somewhat silly.

They need to go.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

I very much dislike the inclusion of shield potions; cheapens the combat almost no end. Bad form.

To be honest I had no idea they had charges, I thought they were one-hit wonders. As one-hit wonders they have a place, they can get you out of one sticky situation, but repeated and cheap use just renders combat trivial and somewhat silly.

They need to go.

That would actually be pretty good, they could make it recharge after a certain amount of time, 40-120 seconds depending on grade.

You mean just like real-life? Its not a PvP shooter - balance isn't part of the equation.

You want to "balance" a Sidewinder vs an Anaconda next?

Shields cells mean that sidewinder pilot has a chance to get away from an instant boiling.

Equip an eagle with 2 shield cell banks and then tell me how much better an anaconda is. I've done it and won easily. Having unlimited shields for as long as you have shield cell ammo left isn't good game play. Why bother buying an anaconda when for .01% of the price you can have the same amount of shield hit points as one.

 

[fergal]

I very much dislike the inclusion of shield potions; cheapens the combat almost no end. Bad form.

To be honest I had no idea they had charges, I thought they were one-hit wonders. As one-hit wonders they have a place, they can get you out of one sticky situation, but repeated and cheap use just renders combat trivial and somewhat silly.

They need to go.

They are in the game, I'm sure they won't be removed.

After using them a little bit I think they are another needed part of your loadout if you are doing some PvP.

This means anyone without a dedicated combat build or a small ship is at an even bigger disadvantage.

A lot of traders fly without shields, I certainly did, can't imagine many of them will want to use 2 slots that aren't cargo bays.

Same will probably go for people with fighter / trader loadouts.

Some of the talk on this thread is that up front (or alpha) damage negates shield cells. That might be true, but what about people running pulse or burst lasers? Are these weapons just considered obsolete and you would be wise to get rid of them?

I can't speak for large ship battles, python vs anaconda, since I own neither. It's possible that their large weapons can strip each others shields quickly and shield cells are an interesting addition for large ship battles.

 

[ParaB]

Shield cell banks are OP, no doubt about that.

I'd like to see them reduced to single-use, with a cooldown of some 10 minutes or so.

I currently have one installed in my Cobra, 6 charges, and it increases my defensive power FAR too much.

 

[jgm]

Equip an eagle with 2 shield cell banks and then tell me how much better an anaconda is.

An NPC Anaconda? Totally depends on what the AI feels like but you'd probably be fine.

A PC Anaconda? Might prolong things but you'd still lose pretty quick.

 

[Mephane]

Ah the first big post-release nerf thread. Though we had this debate before. I hope FD does not yield, for I, as a primarily PvE player (I engage in PvP when it happens, but never seek it), I consider shield cells banks quite fine the way they are.

 

[Antigonos]

Ah the first big post-release nerf thread. Though we had this debate before. I hope FD does not yield, for I, as a primarily PvE player (I engage in PvP when it happens, but never seek it), I consider shield cells banks quite fine the way they are.

wait untill NPC can complain in forums! it will happen!

 

[fergal]

wait untill NPC can complain in forums! it will happen!

wait until NPCs use them

 

[Miimis Maks]

Ah the first big post-release nerf thread. Though we had this debate before. I hope FD does not yield, for I, as a primarily PvE player (I engage in PvP when it happens, but never seek it), I consider shield cells banks quite fine the way they are.

Dont you want a challange? It dumbs down combat as you can float in space with zero speed and just spam shield cells. You consider not how deadly combat or enemy ship can be, but how much shield cells left. Npc dont know how to handle shield cells user, thats a problem. Even 15 sec cooldown would be better than nothing.
Seems shield cells is so important no1 win tactic that no pilot would survive combat with little cooldown. Thats only proves how OP in PvE, i repeat, PvE they are. Its a must in combat or you just silly not using them.

It makes so much difderence that without it even single anaconda can be big problem, even death. WIth shield cells, its no problem even kill 5 one after another until you run out of shield cells. Again. PVE! It ruins it.

 

[bassman]

Ah the first big post-release nerf thread. Though we had this debate before. I hope FD does not yield, for I, as a primarily PvE player (I engage in PvP when it happens, but never seek it), I consider shield cells banks quite fine the way they are.

Yes and no doubt you also considered gimbaled guns, rail guns and cannons all fine in their original over powered forms. All of these things caused similar controversy to shield cells and all have been toned down to improve the games PvP tactical variety admittedly probably against the wishes of the PvE players.

-- edit -- I seem to recall that the removal of the the FA-off boosted speed exploit was largely constested by PvE players, and they (thankfully) lost that argument as well

I understand your pov as a PvE player but the thing is that at the end of the day over powered stuff hurts PvP more than it benefits PvE. FD have demonstrated that they understand this and have rebalanced OP things significantly in the past, and hope they will continue to do so.

 

[remosito]

shield cells are the only way to "survive" in warzones for long. Survive as in not having to run back to a station and drop 100k on repairs after a few minutes.

 

[bassman]

shield cells are the only way to "survive" in warzones for long. Survive as in not having to run back to a station and drop 100k on repairs after a few minutes.

Until such time as most of the other ships in the warzone also pack cells in which case your no better off and every kill just takes that much longer.

All these arguments along the lines of "it helps me survive against xyz" seem to be predicated on the idea that xyz wont have cells as well, which is unlikely, in which case you are back to square one.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

wait until NPCs use them

Npcs do have and occasionally use shield cells. They just aren't good with them. They'll use maybe 1 and very rarely 2 a fight.

 

[Antigonos]

Until such time as most of the other ships in the warzone also pack cells in which case your no better off and every kill just takes that much longer.

All these arguments along the lines of "it helps me survive against xyz" seem to be predicated on the idea that xyz wont have cells as well, which is unlikely, in which case you are back to square one.

stop with the logic, it causes me headaches!

 

[Julio Montega]

shield cells are the only way to "survive" in warzones for long. Survive as in not having to run back to a station and drop 100k on repairs after a few minutes.

I disagree,
you can always disengage combat and go into stealth to shake pursuers.
Or fly erratically and reduce the times being hit by your pursuers
while firing back.

A shield cell just gives you another advantage
and might eliminate the need of maneuvering at all,
given you have a good shield and enough cells.

It is a very versatile module,
yet the only downside is the internal slot you have to sacrifice.
I wonder why the shield generator power lanes
are not damaged by inducing extra juice.
Also there is 0 heat generated,
although i picture you putting higher strain on your mains
by inducing the battery.

 

[Miimis Maks]

Everything is good that prevents standing in front of other ship, spamming shield cells and taking all damage like you dont care. Using shield cell generates heat and lets player prolong fights at warzones etc. It is a valid option. Prevents spam of it and makes player think about then it is a right time to use.

And yes. Shield cell eliminates the need of maneuvering. Well said.

I will repeat myself again. Was speaking of PvE where biggest problems lies with NPC who dont know how to fight against shield cells users and makes combat risk free as long as you buy shield cell bank. Makes everything 10x easier.