Police Brutality

[mormomboy]

I can not tell you how many times I will be fighting with a wanted fugitive and while I am shooting him down a Fed will fly right between me and my quarry. He takes one shot slaps me with a 100CR bounty. Bam his anaconda buddy opens up with all he has. I have been able to escape (barely) every time so far.
My buddy was not so lucky. I was watching him shoot down a wanted NPC when a Fed flies right into the other NPC and takes two shots from my buddies Multi-Cannon. Slaps him with a 200CR Bounty. Anaconda shoots him out of the sky. He has to pay 30,000CR to rebuild ship and looses 200,000CR in bounties (local and other factions) just because the cop flew infront of him.



We came up with a system I think would work much better.

Target a cop and hit him with your guns slaps wanted and 5K bounty and up.
Hit a cop with your weapons and deal 5-10% damage Wanted and 5k bounty.
Kill a cop 20k bounty each and wanted.

Any other amount of damage should hit me with a reasonable fine to go pay off.
I was fine with owing 200CR for accidentally hitting stupid cop. Its when they slap a wanted sign on us and try and kill us that it is a problem.


Even more so, I should be able to pay these fines remotely, and/or have them taken from my available bounties. Currently you have to make it to a station and dock with a giant red sign on your back that says KILL ME in order to pay your debt to society.



What do you guys think?
Obviously exact numbers are not important, but some solution needs to be implemented. This is a little ridiculous.

 

[Telnets]

So this will come off as insulting but its really not meant to be.. however, learn to control your fire and become more situationaly aware. I 100% agree with you that the feds can and do get in the way, but, it adds to the fun.. I cant tell you the number of times im lining up with someone to send a nice rocket barrage thier way, and a fed pops into view and I simply have to hold off on the CHANCE that the stupid Fed npc decides to pull up into my line of fire... while id LIKE to just continue with my action, i have to weigh the consequence of continuing on my course.. sure he SHOULDNT have gotten in my way in the first place, but I like that it adds to the "strategy" of the kill.. because of the fed, now i have to not only extend the fight, but change my direction and plan to get the fed out of view..

its also forced me to be a better combat pilot.. having them around and interrupting my plans here and there has make me look at my radar more and around the screen more.. im constantly looking up and right/left while chasing a guy down in front of me to see whats around me.. its gotten me out of the "tunnel vision" mode when you focus only on your target..

BUT, heres the compliment part..

i do apreciate you didnt just come on here and about it like others.. I like you put some thought into a solution that seems relatively thought out and not just "change the AI Frontier!!"..

I go agree with you that "wanted" status is a little much for not actually killing a fed ship.. a hefty fine eliminating any possible profit might be more reasonable indeed.

 

[Ghostile]

So this will come off as insulting but its really not meant to be.. however, learn to control your fire and become more situationaly aware.

No way to predict a police viper burning 400m/s into your line of fire FROM BEHIND YOU!

This is just broken AI and should be fixed.

 

[Steve O B Have]

I'd agree with you - the fine I have no issue with, getting bashed over the head for it... not so much...

 

[Ghostile]

I'd agree with you - the fine I have no issue with, getting bashed over the head for it... not so much...

Yeah, I too would be okay with a fine.
But bounty, wanted and missiles combined isn't something that should happen.

 

[mormomboy]

So this will come off as insulting but its really not meant to be.. however, learn to control your fire and become more situationaly aware. I 100% agree with you that the feds can and do get in the way, but, it adds to the fun.. I cant tell you the number of times im lining up with someone to send a nice rocket barrage thier way, and a fed pops into view and I simply have to hold off on the CHANCE that the stupid Fed npc decides to pull up into my line of fire... while id LIKE to just continue with my action, i have to weigh the consequence of continuing on my course.. sure he SHOULDNT have gotten in my way in the first place, but I like that it adds to the "strategy" of the kill.. because of the fed, now i have to not only extend the fight, but change my direction and plan to get the fed out of view..

I have literally been rammed by them before. I was stationary tracking the enemy and he rammed right into me and flipped my ship. Then he tried to kill me for damaging him.
I have only ever hit them with my gimbled Multi-Cannon. Like one of the other posters stated, I can't predict them when they fly through from behind me.


I am glad to see most people like my proposal. If they implemented something similar I would not mind the broken AI (as much).

 

[Telnets]

No way to predict a police viper burning 400m/s into your line of fire FROM BEHIND YOU!

This is just broken AI and should be fixed.

Actually there are 3 very easy ways..

1) Knowing there is a fed in the instance with you.. and watching for him visually..
2) Knowing there is a fed in the instance with you... and keeping an eye on the radar to know where he is at all times.. (yes, radar works behind you too!)
3) stop shooting when you hear "RRRRRRAAAAAAWWWWWWWWRRRRRR" above your head knowing the viper in your instance is as you say "burning 400m/s into your line of fire FROM BEHIND YOU"..

again, all goes back to situational awareness..


OP: to be fair you did not mention in your post your being fined after being physically rear-ended by the fed ship.. You said he came between you and your target..

so again, in THIS scenario, i would agree with you, that if the NPC physically hits your ship in game, and its not weapon fire, then yes, being tagged as wanted and being shot at as a threat is unaccounted

 

[FoxTwo]

Yeah slapping a fine for hitting the cops would be enough.

Either that or bring back the old 1984 statuses - Clean, Offender, Fugitive (Wanted). Then when you accidentally shoot a cop you get "Offender" status if you don't keep firing at it. You get a fine of some amount (200 to 500cr seems reasonable) and nobody gets shot until they're "Fugitive" in which case he's fair game for everybody.

 

[Arktac13]

Agreed, its a single shot to their shields in most occasions. If authorities are in combat with other pilots they should give you a warning. And if you do it again then you might as well not be using your weapons anyways cuz your a terrible shot
- My turreted multi-cannons hit the fed ships on a daily basis... I'm not gonna retract my hardpoints every time a cop flies in front of me

 

[ShadowGar]

I would actually love to see police enter anarchy systems and just shoot anything that moved. That is what I call anarchy.

 

[Rall]

I would actually love to see police enter anarchy systems and just shoot anything that moved. That is what I call anarchy.

Or interdict you for no reason "Tail lights busted, drop some cargo and lets call it even." with the comms channel.

 

[DraigUK]

I'd be ok with getting a fine for "accidental" shots on COPS ONLY.

200cr for the first, 400cr for the 2nd, and 800cr for a third.

Any more than that and you get a 2000cr Bounty and go Wanted.

This only applies to cops though, who are used to tearing it up, they should have decent shields anyway to take the odd stray shot from players and other NPC's.
If that is the case I'd be ok with it as it makes sense from a gameplay point of view and a lore/universe point of view.

Also saves a lot of new coding going in.

 

[Cryonics]

No way to predict a police viper burning 400m/s into your line of fire FROM BEHIND YOU!

This is just broken AI and should be fixed.

There certainly is. It's called radar and this may sound insulting but that's because it's meant to be. Go back to EVE and hang out near Jita all day. You won't even be playing ELIte in a month from now so why even bother with the tears.

 

[mormomboy]

OP: to be fair you did not mention in your post your being fined after being physically rear-ended by the fed ship.. You said he came between you and your target..

so again, in THIS scenario, i would agree with you, that if the NPC physically hits your ship in game, and its not weapon fire, then yes, being tagged as wanted and being shot at as a threat is unaccounted

Its true, I neglected to mention being physically rammed by the cop in my original post. It has indeed happened though, and was quite annoying.

The worst part is that I was stationary when it happened.

Glad to see I am not the only one who thinks 1-2 bullets hitting a cop and getting wanted is a little ridiculous.


Just a few minutes ago I was flying back with my 200CR Bounty and as I was going into the docking bay doors they scanned me, opened fire... BOOM. 50,000CR lost in bounty and 26,000CR to rebuild ship...

 

[nosleepdemon]

I once had a fed shoot my canopy out for looking at him wrong, wasn't long before I couldn't breathe :/

 

[tomPhoenix]

Something should be done to be frank. "Watching your fire" and "situational awareness" is not really a good answer. It's truthfully the only answer at the moment =) But it is a bit of a trollololol.

Speaking of trolling...Just wait for when people in open play start intentionally flying in front of your fire to make you wanted. Oh what a fun time that'll be (if it already isn't going on).

This happened to me and my buddy the other night. He flew in front of my fire (he could see it, I'd say it was his fault) and I didn't have a chance. I was firing gimbled guns at the time! So even with those guns, be careful. 600cr bounty and wanted. HOWEVER, unlike the story here, there was a cop nearby and he did not immediately engage me. I was able to out run the po po in my awesome engine upgraded Eagle. Good thing too, it took FOREVER to super cruise for some reason (energy after the fight perhaps). Went to station and paid off the bounty no big deal.

But it truly is a problem that needs to be sorted out. I think the mechanic adds a bit of challenge to the game too which is really nice. So I think the ideas suggested are terrific. Only become wanted if you intentionally are shooting something (enough damage). So yea you might need to be careful with bigger guns...But this still provides for a little margin of error. Right now it's honestly too small of a margin and it'll only become more clear just how small once people start trolling others and intentionally flying in the line of fire at nav beacons, USS' and such.

Additionally, wings would be great. So when my friend and I are fighting NPCs together, friendly fire doesn't fine us because we're in the same wing. This also could present cool opportunities such as dogfights for fun. Of course we could also just go to anarchy I suppose.

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

One of the main things for any game is for players to be able to acknowledge their own shortcomings and not get mad at the game. If players willingly are opening fire on Feds, for instance, they should expect a counteraction from the NPCs. However, if the NPCs are flying in to LoS and hit due to their own fault, you cannot blame the player in this instance. Not only is it poor sportsmanship to tell someone l2p, but it also excusing the developer of being responsible for putting out quality content.

So stop defending something so blatantly obvious as being an issue. You could have something better than you currently have by simply stepping back, looking over the situation, and realizing that while some things are out of your control, something like this (when you are donig everything you can do on your part) should not be excused.

 

[Apec Valorian]

Ideas like this have been brought up earlier, but at the moment it seems it can't hurt to repeat them. I guess FD will ultimately get the message, and implement something to the effect that a stray hit on the cops (or any other "bystander" for that matter) will result in just a fine rather than a bounty.

 

[Ghostile]

3) stop shooting when you hear "RRRRRRAAAAAAWWWWWWWWRRRRRR" above your head knowing the viper in your instance is as

- stop shooting
- watch the bullet trail fly towards the enemy
- watch the NPC fly into the trail seconds after I lifted the trigger.
- Get shot at
- Run away


Why must it be the player that has to change his ways and why can't the AI code change "oh there's a ton of bullets/beam/laser, don't want to fly there!" or by letting a few hits slide.
Tho they have said they are looking into this and trying to find a way to solve this without it becoming exploitable.

 

[I_am_Jon]

I too have had problems with them colliding with me or running into my fire resulting in fines and attack. Annoying but I can live with it, would be nice if small fines didn't result in all out attack.

But even worse is they have a habit of turning on me when I have no fines, no bounty and no illegal cargo (status still clean). Have learned to be super careful while hunting pirates but security always turns on me eventually. Even though defiantly not hit them with stray fire, collided with them, shot without scanning etc... When I get back to the station I have no fines or bounty to pay off and the local security scan me and let me go.

Also noticed a few regular 'clean' NPC's attacking me for no reason, at least they normally have limited fire power compared to security. Although often tempted, I have never returned fire on security or clean NPC's even when they attack me without cause.