Piracy not encouraged but in the game?

[Cidcaldensfey]

Okay, a lot of people don't really seem to understand the point so I'll make it very simple for everyone:

What is the point of having piracy in a game if piracy is discouraged alongside lacking/devoid of mechanics to improve upon the concept to make it fair for both pirates/the pirated?

A lot of you who are posting in this thread seem to be missing the point and are posting with emotions. Stop, read what I just typed, and give a response which doesn't involve bias. The question is very straight forward yet for some reason people are posting 'pirates hate traders, get over it' or 'pvp in the game and pvp etc' which is not the point. The point is the game has PIRACY and it is lacking MECHANICS which would make it a FEATURE considering there are BOUNTY-HUNTER MECHANICS in play. In otherwords, the game favors one playstyle over the other even though the game includes both. It has nothing to do with fighting NPCs, players, whatever. This is more specifically about the mechanics of the game (or lack of).

I hope this makes it easier to understand what the topic is about. Lets focus on this and not go in other areas.

Thanks.

 

[Bigcheese]

For whatever reason, some players throw their hands up and quit when losing to another player. Sadly, ED seems to have attracted a lot of these players.

Not sure why some fear competitive play so much, but it's a shame such a dynamic and fun aspect is going to waste in ED.

Space truckers it is. They might want to consider changing the name though, Elite: Dangerous does not convey the in game experience very well at all. I suggest Efficient: Reliable because we are the best truckers in the universe.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Which mechanism do you think are lacking?

 

[Pheyes]

And what you will find when you do that is that the players you pirate will either a) put you on ignore so that your chance of meeting them again is minimal. b) make a run for it and force you to shoot them. c) turn to solo mode thereby reducing your or any other pirate's chance of ever seeing them again.

Edited to add: You will also gain huge fines and bounties (especially if you kill them) so it ends up COSTING you money.

Lol if they only pirate players at 6000cr a kill the 4 million I have in cash will go a long way don't you think??

 

[Caboose187]

Okay, a lot of people don't really seem to understand the point so I'll make it very simple for everyone:

What is the point of having piracy in a game if piracy is discouraged alongside lacking/devoid of mechanics to improve upon the concept to make it fair for both pirates/the pirated?

A lot of you who are posting in this thread seem to be missing the point and are posting with emotions. Stop, read what I just typed, and give a response which doesn't involve bias. The question is very straight forward yet for some reason people are posting 'pirates hate traders, get over it' or 'pvp in the game and pvp etc' which is not the point. The point is the game has PIRACY and it is lacking MECHANICS which would make it a FEATURE considering there are BOUNTY-HUNTER MECHANICS in play. In otherwords, the game favors one playstyle over the other even though the game includes both. It has nothing to do with fighting NPCs, players, whatever. This is more specifically about the mechanics of the game (or lack of).

I hope this makes it easier to understand what the topic is about. Lets focus on this and not go in other areas.

Thanks.

What are you talking about, you can get a cargo scanner to see if they have anything worth stealing then use the hatch break on them to open their cargo hatch and dump their load.

 

[aspiringexpatriate]

I wonder when player killers will finally understand that there is a REASON why traders are traders and not pirates or bountyhunters.
That reason is simply that most of them do NOT enjoy fighting other players. Some of them dont even enjoy fighting the AI.
Most traders i know would rather switch to solo then to be constantly harassed by what player killers think is fun gameplay.
So it will come to this: if pirates dont start to think about the way they follow their trade, they will be FORCED to pirate NPC simply because they are all blocked by the traders or the traders simply all went to solo and group.
There is a reason for Mobius already having 2000 Members, growing by about 100 every DAY.
Dear player killers, there is NOTHING you can do to force us into your way of playing. WE have all the options to avoid you, and you can cry and moan and about it all day long.
Adapt, or play the game your way...but alone.

I understand where this comment is coming from, but surely you should point out that dedicated player traders who are aware of pirates out in the Void and make allowances in their cost effectiveness. Sure, NPC pirates can be evaded and jumped away from, or even destroyed if your "space truck" packs some serious guns, but if you face a member of the Pilots' Federation who is pirating you, surely the answer then is to drop a few canisters of something valuable and continue running. If they are pirates, they'll stop and pick up the cargo. You don't get any cargo from explosions.

Now, if what you're talking about is players who interdict only to kill, that's another matter entirely, and not about piracy at all.

Yes, Traders who don't like player interaction can play Solo. It is always an option. But Traders who refuse to give up cargo when another pilot/player demands cargo or death, well, they get dead if they can't get away.

Piracy is a valid gameplay choice, but if player traders are refusing to drop cargo to cover their tracks, then they don't really have anything to complain about when the pirate slowly kills them.

Also, OP, what mechanics are missing? Every system has Factions that are less than legal, almost every system has a black market, and there are dedicated Anarchy systems, some with lots of NPCs and players, where the bounty system does not come into play. What mechanics of piracy are missing at this point that aren't missing from other play styles? There are even Bulletin Board missions that ask you to kill Authority and Bounty Hunters. Hell, half of my alternate missions while hauling or bounty hunting are NPCs asking me to turn on the Authorities in question and live the life of a pirate.

I don't really see how piracy is frowned upon, other than, you know, by the people who are the pirate's main prey.

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

I think the main thing which is lacking are a few things. Mainly, pirates are not really loners. Theres no real system in place which could really allow pirates to have their own social circles. The game is about cooperation...this should apply to both sides. Other tools or mechanics which are missing are things such as ways for pirating players to offer or incentivize NPCs/players to be compliant without requiring any escalation. I don't want to necessarily kill people/NPCs. I just want their stuff/credits.

I just think the piracy aspect of the game is definitely something that needs more work. It should be more lucrative than formal ways of making money. The point of crime is the concept of fast money. High yield pay means high risk activities. Thats why most criminals die anyways...because their method of survival requires minimal committment/time versus tarditional methods of making money. The trade off is that it's harder to pull off and obviously a lot more risk/dangerous (bounty hunters, security forces, etc are out to get you).

Another main point which helps is that recently someone posted a recent poll regarding favored roles. The huge difference between the roles shows a lot about how much of an imbalance currently exists in the game:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=83105

The sample size is arguable but the preliminary data shows that there is definitely something off. The data can be construed in a multitude of ways, however I do believe it is also, in some way, due to the fact that the piracy style of gameplay currently available in Elite Dangerous is underdeveloped.

 

[Zomb Lee]

What are you talking about, you can get a cargo scanner to see if they have anything worth stealing then use the hatch break on them to open their cargo hatch and dump their load.

That's so cool. It's times like this that I wish I could have multiple different pilots, as so far I've specialized in Bounty Hunting, but it was a toss up between that and piracy. However, doesn't the cargo hatch override, only work on ships without shields?

 

[Lanatir]

Lol if they only pirate players at 6000cr a kill the 4 million I have in cash will go a long way don't you think??

4 million. how cute.

 

[Bigcheese]

Who knows ? Perhaps FD, contrary to popular belief, concluded PvP is not the pinnacle and evolutionary crown of online gaming. And maybe, just maybe, they're completely right.

If they have chosen to intentionally limit their game, that's their choice. Shame though, plenty of room for everyone and it's such a waste to ignore one of the most dynamic parts about games of this nature due to people too afraid to leave their comfort zone.

I wish some players would stop being so mentally weak when it comes to competition, but that's just my opinion. It's not a either/or type of situation (that's just bitter people trying to get what they are bad at removed) and again, they should change the name if this is the road they are taking. There is nothing elite or dangerous about what we do in the game currently.

 

[Zomb Lee]

Those poll results someone posted is absolutely horrible! Bounty Hunting is something I've always been interested in, but my God piracy is fun too, and super lacking. I'm almost considering going pirate now. I think the general consensus is that pirates just blow people up just for the heck of it, and that couldn't be further from the truth, leastways, when I pirate players it's more for the cargo. Basically, killing them doesn't earn money, stealing a fraction of a percentage of their cargo earns you money.

Take for example, this extreme example. A Sidewinder (lawls, I know, don't pirate in one, but so far I have the most experience with this) can hold about 4 tons of goods. How much does a hauler hold? Really, if the trader drops his cargo, he's not losing anything. The Sidewinder pilot (assuming he could survive a firefight with a turreted out Hauler) gets his 4 tons of goods and jumps out, to sell the stolen goods on the black market, while the Trader scoops back up the goods and goes about his business making another couple of million at his destination.

If the Hauler pilot wants to not cooperate and run, he can expect to get pew pewed until he can escape, probably still making an enormous profit after hull damage is considered in, if any.

Besides, aren't there NPC pirates? I don't even haul cargo and I've been ripped from SC and scanned countless times. So really, the player pirate is no different from an NPC. It's an online game, confrontation WILL happen. Stick to solo mode if it's so offensive, but this huge mis-balance of players is awful! Like I said, I may go pirate now, instead of Bounty Hunt now that I know exactly how many players have chosen the same path as me.

Also, if PVP is so frowned upon, will I become the most hated bounty hunter ever, because I actually focus more on looking for players with bounties rather than NPCs?

 

[rootsrat]

/snip
a lot of other players seem to not like pirates in general. In a lot of ways, people feel piracy and pirate players are just griefers. Players also stress that the game is not meant for PvP but reather cooperative gameplay.

I honestly don't think this is the case at all. And I honestly spend A LOT of time on these forums reading threads.

 

[Lanatir]

If they have chosen to intentionally limit their game, that's their choice. Shame though, plenty of room for everyone and it's such a waste to ignore one of the most dynamic parts about games of this nature due to people too afraid to leave their comfort zone.

I wish some players would stop being so mentally weak when it comes to competition, but that's just my opinion. It's not a either/or type of situation (that's just bitter people trying to get what they are bad at removed) and again, they should change the name if this is the road they are taking. There is nothing elite or dangerous about what we do in the game currently.

lets see. we have 2 types of people. one enjoys to play their game by themselves, lets everybody go along and do their thing. The other one gets a kick out of making other peoples experience miserable by forcing their kind of game upon them. One of them you call mentally weak. i am not sure if everyone agrees with your assessment.

 

[Bigcheese]

lets see. we have 2 types of people. one enjoys to play their game by themselves, lets everybody go along and do their thing. The other one gets a kick out of making other peoples experience miserable by forcing their kind of game upon them. One of them you call mentally weak. i am not sure if everyone agrees with your assessment.

Yes, I agree. Some people avoid any kind of danger or risk and that's ok. Modern games have shown it's even a popular opinion. You guys have solo mode or groups so you can play risk free as much as you like. Not to mention billions of systems to choose from. I do consider it a pretty weak way to play because let's face it, it is. It's the classic modern gaming attitude or removing anything that gets in your way.

There are also those who enjoy the danger that other players present. Would it surprise you to learn I don't even pirate? I've never killed an unwanted player (not that there are many players around, let's be real here). I'm bored to tears out there in space. I want players to attack me, I want there to be a sense of danger. ED is like a big brother dominated space delivery simulator.

You have the tools to play in carebear land all day, please understand that isn't what everyone is looking for. Why get so frustrated when trucking run #536 didn't go smoothly? Grow a pair imo!

 

[Caboose187]

That's so cool. It's times like this that I wish I could have multiple different pilots, as so far I've specialized in Bounty Hunting, but it was a toss up between that and piracy. However, doesn't the cargo hatch override, only work on ships without shields?

Ya, it'd be nice to be able to create multiple pilots for doing whichever and yes the shields need to be down which isn't all the hard to do.

 

[Lanatir]

Yes, I agree. Some people desperately avoid any kind of danger or risk and that's ok. Modern games have shown it's even a popular opinion. You guys have solo mode or groups so you can play risk free as much as you like. Not to mention billions of systems to choose from.

There are also those who enjoy the danger that other players present. Would it surprise you to learn I don't even pirate? I've never killed an unwanted player (not that there are many players around, let's be real here). I'm bored to tears out there in space. I want players to attack me, I want there to be a sense of danger. ED is like a big brother dominated space delivery simulator.

You have the tools to play in carebear land all day, please understand that isn't what everyone is looking for. Why get so frustrated when trucking run #536 didn't go smoothly? Grow a pair imo!

Ok, i gotta be really careful on how i phrase this now. first of all, please remove the carebear. it is an insult, and it has been stated so by mods several times.

second of all: My problem is with your wording. Coming out of germany i can tell you that the mindset to call someone mentally weak that doesnt thrive upon conflict is a mindset that we left behind about 60 to 70 years ago. Please, use different wordings. the logical consequence of what you just said would be to call people that like to dominate others as superior.

 

[Bigcheese]

Ok, i gotta be really careful on how i phrase this now. first of all, please remove the carebear. it is an insult, and it has been stated so by mods several times.

second of all: My problem is with your wording. Coming out of germany i can tell you that the mindset to call someone mentally weak that doesnt thrive upon conflict is a mindset that we left behind about 60 to 70 years ago. Please, use different wordings. the logical consequence of what you just said would be to call people that like to dominate others as superior.

It's a game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's a game.

Yup - it is indeed - and a game is meant to be enjoyable, otherwise people would not play it.

 

[Lanatir]

It's a game.

And people who dont play the game the way you think is appropriate are mentally weak?

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

I'm not a mod but it would probably be better if you take the mentally weak thing to PMs. It has nothing to do with this thread.

Back the thread: Why are bounty-hunting mechanics more encouraged for players to play by and sanctioned as opposed to piracy? Not only that, but pirates could/should be protected if the pirates act less like pirates are more like corsairs. Piracy is a legit form of destabilizing a location as it does, if you're pirating traders mainly, deprive locations of resources. There are definitely missions which allow this, as you can pick factions in conflict zones, though it doesn't seem anywhere near as acceptable as bounty hunting. More specifically, piracy is painted as being a morally depraved profession when it is actually quite acceptable as long as those being pirated are not of whomever is contracting you out.

Also, pirates generally do run from the law and bounty hunters, but pirates should be able to have pirate sanctuaries or outposts. The kind of places where security forces or bounty hunters wouldn't be able to so easily cruise along into, though I suppose bounty hunters, depending on their contacts/factional rep, should be able to come and go to some extent.

It just feels like piracy in general just seems really underdeveloped as I stated before. It could definitely use more work.