Comparing elite and eve online..

[Robert Graham]

Forum ate my post but TLDR version, I want to play the game that David told me, not EVE: ElITE style, if I want that and I want to deal with Goons and the like I can easily reactivate EVE and get my 15 Billion isk worth of assets moving again. I don't.

You want Elite Eve style? Go get Valkyri when it comes out, I like being just a small drop in the very large ocean in Elite, I like the game modes I like the fact that I don't have to put up with Goonz and the like if I do not wish to.. That is the game David said he had invisioned, that is the game that I backed him for.

Eve is internet spaceships and spreadsheets, Elite is very different in its own right and I don't want to see Elite made more like Eve because EVE is full of the likes of Goons, BOB, TEST etc etc etc who all think that players enjoying a game THEIR WAY rather then how THEY want them to is wrong and that they have the right to abuse, smack talk, ruin, kill, stomp on etc that parade.. guess what Elite states they and you don't. If I feel your ruining how I want to play the game I can switch from Open - Closed.

You don't have control over the universe in this game, just like you don't in real life.. I like that.. and I want it to stay that way.

 

[Samroski]

Eve has had it's ups and downs, and devs have screwed up multiple times, but over 10 years the game has been refined to an extent that some aspects of it work seamlessly. I especially love the economy, and trading is the main thing I do in Eve. Elite could have benefited greatly by implementing some of the economical principles of Eve, but FD have gone in a different direction. Or lets say, they've kept going in the same direction over the past 30 years.

I have no issues in comparing the two games, though Eve has had a head start and it may be unfair to expect the same level of refinement in E at the beginning.

It does appear that a number of people who love bashing Eve in these forums are people who have been grieved in Eve and are now looking for a more pleasant experience. They may be afraid of implementation of social tools and other game mechanics that may lead to similar griefing. The option of a solo mode should really be enough reassurance for them. Despite this, I also get a lot of flak whenever I try and compare the 2 games, or talk about incorporating any of Eve's features.

May I also add to this ramble that I love the griefing in Eve. I never do it myself, but I know that many of the people who harvest tears are really good decent folks out there to have a good time, and if your attitude is also the same (having fun) they'll love you, and they'll pay you back whatever they stole/destroyed, and they may even invite you to join their corp. Having communication tools really helps this, btw.

/ramble

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

Griefing in EVE is an artform. To scam and swindle people in so many different ways, to know everything they worked for and spent years working for can be gone with a single hand. EVE is spectacular and I love it. I just don't have the time anymore to play space job the game.

 

[Twotricks]

The problem is that some people think that a combination of the eve social and political life could be awesome with the elite dangerous hull as it is rigth now , but it seems that some people here including the devs are stuck in 1980s and they just want an empty and lifeless universe to play space trucking song from deep purple over and over while they do some goods trading over and over in a pointless way.

I mean , they already got their solo mode and their private groups mode , why dont they let the rest of us get some love from Frontier and make the pvp, social and political actions a bit more encouraged? it makes no sense for me, you got what you want but you dont want others to get what they want, that makes no sense.

This exactly.


Since 1980 many of original players of ELITE dreamed of same game in online shared universe. EVE was result of these dreams. It was made by fans of ELITE and was best attempt to mimic its mechanic with constraints of that day technologies.

Today ELITE is far far more advanced game and could be much closer to original dreams of ELITE in shared universe - but it has to be in shared universe
which means it has to have multiplayer features enabled. For this it has to take inspiration from EVE.

So its basicaly going full circle : Elite -> EVE -> Elite

One learns from another.



Another note is that EVE has bad reputation for player versus hostility. And people are afraid that multiplayer communication will somehow turn ELITE into such.

Which is completely unnwaranted and ridicilous. EVE was systematically and deliberately pushed in this direction by its developers.

ELITE is different game, it has different focus and different developers.

 

[prasak]

For me EvE has a nice economy and stuff, in fact only thing which I dont like is the way of "piloting" EvE online offers. If ED becomes as complex game as EvE, but with the nice piloting it has now, I would not be sad about it. About the griefing and stuff, it is the problem of people generally, not of the people playing this or that game.

 

[Beld]

The thing I find most odd is that Eve is a game where combat is basically pressing F1 and telling your ship to do evasive pattern delta (orbit) and people are mostly interested in PVP, well the people that matter anyway.

And yet Elite where you have actual control of your vessel get to pull the trigger and execute all sorts of cool maneuvers, the vast majority of people wanna play online ignore other players and make pvpers out to be rapists and murderers (IRL)

we live in such a strange world.

 

[Ariel]

I enjoyed the initial space combat i think is the best feature of the game. The divisions created with solo and online and non pvp orientation has left me bored.

I think I'll give it some time and see if any developments make it more exciting to come back to.

 

[Remiel]

There are already a wide variety of similarities between the two games, so much so that you could do a crossover and few people would notice anything different. The stuff you fly in EVE is bigger, that's all, not designed to be 'flown from a cockpit' but from a pod of goo where your external senses are nullified and you are hooked into the ship in such a way that it is like an extra set of limbs. Actually, lore-wise, the ships in EVE are designed to be commanded from a CIC and modified for capsuleers after the fact, with the exception of T2 and T3 hulls designed from the ground up with capsuleer command in mind.

In Elite, of course, the ships are smaller, and designed to be flown from a cockpit. But here's the real difference - Elite is what they refer to as a 'twitch shooter' where the best really are the best. In this way, it can be quite a bit more exclusive than many might suspect. Put a joystick in the hands of a 60 year old grandfather with failing eyesight and pit him against an 18 year old with the hand/eye coordination of an eagle, and it probably doesn't matter what they're in, that 18 year old is probably gonna win that fight. In EVE, the game is more about strategy - take the same competition, and the fight comes down more to who thought ahead the most. I have a 60 year old grandfather in my alliance in EVE, and he's one of our top PVP'ers.

That's not to say EVE isn't exclusive in its own right. EVE has a natural filter against the weak - you might not like PVP, you might try to avoid it and do well for a long time, but sooner or later it's gonna come to you whether you like it or not. A lot of people quit because they just can't handle it.

EVE is also a very social game, where you can make real friends out of people you've never met before. This is all down to how the game itself, as a package, is wholly driven by how players interact with each other rather than how they interact with the environment. You don't have the same effect in Elite because the universe is driven more by how players interact with the environment rather than each other.

And that's the primary meta of the game, the way players interact with it, and how, and who, etc, not the mechanics themselves. You can still take a vast array of features out of EVE, cram them into Elite, and it'd still be a unique game. Some people forget that it was Elite that inspired EVE to begin with, and a lot of what's in EVE actually came from Elite in the first place. So if people are lipping off at EVE, go for it, but this is where it began. There are only so many things you can do with a space game like these two before you start recycling basic fundamental features of any given one anyway.

 

[Remiel]

I can't edit my previous but I also meant to say that, for those that think Elite should be free of PVP, that's why you have a solo mode. If you play in open mode, the basic precepts of EVE will apply - don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and expect PVP the moment you launch into space. I've already had a heap of good PVP in Elite, and I can honestly say that between EVE and Elite, I will probably play little else as long as the servers are live.

I had some really good PVP just yesterday in fact with a random I interdicted with a huge bounty on myself. He rammed me and caused a lot of damage and thought he was gonna win but I turned it around. I'd link the video but it won't let new posters use links here. You can see my Elite: Dangerous playlist on the Remiel Pollard YouTube channel.

 

[Terrahawk]

I have seen people respond like that when people have mentioned features in EVE that would be worth implementing in some form in ED. Features that actually it might benefit from. As many people have mentioned, EVE is a very very mature game and has learned a lot from mistakes. It's perfectly reasonable that it might have lessons ED can still learn without compromising its gameplay. And this is from me - someone who has barely touched EVE since ED came out.

However, ome thing that no-one else has touched on: EVE is subscription based, and therefore has a constant flow of cash coming in. They have been able to improve it constantly for years and years, and furthermore they need to do so to keep the game fresh and keep people resubbing and PLEXing. Elite is not subscription based. It has only the initial purchase and then large expansion packs to monetise. It will become financially unviable to keep tweaking and improving the game in a much shorter space of time unless those expansions come thick and fast.

So I think it's not exactly comparing like with like. EVE may well still be going strong long after gamers have tired of ED, because it can, financially, and its emergent gameplay means it has the potential to be new and fresh in perpetuity, but that is not necessarily to its credit. One makes gameplay compromises when creating a world which people will keep paying to stay in - effectively creating endless carrots and endless sticks. In a world which people have already paid for, everyone expects to get the full value of their purchase, and that for many is a good thing. ED is a different experience - what is likely to be a comparatively brief but bright period in gaming history.

So, let's get on with enjoying it and try and get Frontier to make it as good as they can in this short time!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

In Elite NPCs should be harder though. Right now I kill most stuff with my Eagle that I barely upgraded.

Congratulations on your awesome skills. I'm in a heavily upgraded Viper at the moment and still run into trouble with some opponents. Perhaps you are just too good for the game

On topic: I think the main reason is people say "no eve!" is its mainly coming from the PvE crowd (whose numbers are significant for sure - myself included) and we know what the environment is like in that game and simply don't want to see any of that come to Elite. Despite the game's name "Elite" we don't want to see the playerbase become elitist or as toxic as it is over there and we don't like the idea of Eve players coming here and spoiling "our game". Yes, i know, its a bit of a crappy attitude, but that's the way it is.

Therefore every time someone says "Eve has feature X", it tends to start a flamewar.

Perhaps if people see things that are in Eve that might be good in Elite, they could gain better traction and response by mentioning it without referring to Eve.

Still, the PvE crowd are generally going to be against most Evelike suggestions because they just don't fit the idea of Elite. One man (or woman) and his (or her) ship. Once you start adding things like purchasable stations and fleets and whatnot it becomes an entirely different game... like X2 for example.

Some might think that's a good idea, some might thing its a bad idea. Each to their own.

Only one person's opinion really matters on this topic though, and that is David Braben's. He owns the company that is making this game. It is his vision and his dream. He has quite directly stated, he is making the game for himself and invites others to share in his dream. If his vision includes (for example) purchasable stations later on, then they will happen. If not, then no amount of suggestions will make it happen.

 

[Ariel]

Yeah gonna call it a loss and move on. Personal opinion would be that PvP would of been the core strength to capitalise on. The game has probably fared well on launch to make it a financial success and good on them.

 

[Cutlass]

Eve online was and should still be one of my favourite games of ALL time but as the years went by the game went in directions I hated and the forums and whiners caused CCP to change it to cater for them.

I started playing it in 2003 , my character in it is called Wizard and I was part of the original curse alliance and basically played it for its first 4 years straight then just dipped in for a week every year to see changes. I started of learning the ropes of various things then settled in after a month into solo pvp and small group pvp with the odd night a week helping out in a 3-400 alliance battle ( lagg fest back then ). They made changes to the game making it too much dependant on boring stuff ( for me anyways ) a lot of space was closed off because of big alliances, say I wanted to do some chill time hunting blood raider nps in delve then I couldn't because all the corps around there would "police" the area in biggg groups. Getting into 0.0 space was difficult to impossible because of camps at gates, yeah yeah get in a small ship and get through.

Oh reference to my pvp mention above, some 3000plus kills with probably 1k of those solo often in a vulnerable geddon in 0.0, suchhhh fun. Then probably another 1k plus kills in small 2-3 man groups highly vulnerable to the big bank blobs roaming.

Eve is too polluted with things to do, to many spreadsheets and toooo much of I different game to what it was when it came out that I personally feel robbed of a gaming experience .


ED I do love, it is boring at times.

I would love to see simple local and corp chat implemented........please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And item storage/ module storage at allied stations only implemented.

Just those two things would make me so much happier and my mind freaks out at how this is not a "given" in any online game now?

 

[BeTeK]

I would really like to see proper arguments why feature X should not be implemented in ED. The argument that X is in EVE hence should not be is not good argument since it does not say anything about the feature.

If that argument would be valid we would have really silly conversations here... - Trading is good - No it's not EVE has it

 

[JeffRyan]

Eve online was and should still be one of my favourite games of ALL time but as the years went by the game went in directions I hated and the forums and whiners caused CCP to change it to cater for them.

I started playing it in 2003 , my character in it is called Wizard and I was part of the original curse alliance and basically played it for its first 4 years straight then just dipped in for a week every year to see changes. I started of learning the ropes of various things then settled in after a month into solo pvp and small group pvp with the odd night a week helping out in a 3-400 alliance battle ( lagg fest back then ). They made changes to the game making it too much dependant on boring stuff ( for me anyways ) a lot of space was closed off because of big alliances, say I wanted to do some chill time hunting blood raider nps in delve then I couldn't because all the corps around there would "police" the area in biggg groups. Getting into 0.0 space was difficult to impossible because of camps at gates, yeah yeah get in a small ship and get through.

Oh reference to my pvp mention above, some 3000plus kills with probably 1k of those solo often in a vulnerable geddon in 0.0, suchhhh fun. Then probably another 1k plus kills in small 2-3 man groups highly vulnerable to the big bank blobs roaming.

Eve is too polluted with things to do, to many spreadsheets and toooo much of I different game to what it was when it came out that I personally feel robbed of a gaming experience .


ED I do love, it is boring at times.

I would love to see simple local and corp chat implemented........please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And item storage/ module storage at allied stations only implemented.

Just those two things would make me so much happier and my mind freaks out at how this is not a "given" in any online game now?

Local chat is the one chat in EVE I absolutely wished would be done away with. It ruined many a situation for me. The way it's used as a 'look out' as well was terrible for me.

 

[OVMorat]

EVE online is primarily focused on PvP.
ED is primarily focused on PvE.

Those that want more PvP are suggesting things that tend to be in EVE.
Those that do not want more PvP would rather not have those things so as to keep the focus for PvE.

Two different games, neither is bad, but I would like them to stay different.

Only a small proportion of pilots in EVE actually engage in PvP, unless you're counting the wider definition of Market PvP (because you're competing against other players in the market) which really doesn't trigger the same emotion as combat in space.

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Local chat is the one chat in EVE I absolutely wished would be done away with. It ruined many a situation for me. The way it's used as a 'look out' as well was terrible for me.

Totally with you on that - and the lack of local chat in Wormholes is really refreshing.

 

[JeffRyan]

Only a small proportion of pilots in EVE actually engage in PvP, unless you're counting the wider definition of Market PvP (because you're competing against other players in the market) which really doesn't trigger the same emotion as combat in space.

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Totally with you on that - and the lack of local chat in Wormholes is really refreshing.

Pfft, I was forced into PvP ALL the time towards the end whenever I ventured into HighSec (ironically I was safer down in null) via gankers, griefers or wardecs.

 

[Hayta]

ED is a new game, in time it will look a lot like eve(should, in my humble opinion) as much as i like ED at this state, it is even boring than eve. There is not much to too (now i really don't troll if you think the game is perfect at this state.. I am sorry for you, just take a look at eve if you like).

 

[Dean478]

Two very different fictional settings for two different, yet reciprocally inspired, games. One offers a very massive virtual world. One offers a slightly less 'massive', but still dynamic and persistent, virtual world. My definition of massively multi-player is when you cannot selectively customise the multi-player experience to suit your subjective desires.

Yes, I play both games. I've played EVE since 2008 and played Frontier: Elite 2 back in 1996. I enjoy both games and see no reason why they need to be mutually exclusive. If I had to pick one that perks my interest more in their present state; it'd be EVE simply because I feel the lore has been better explored. And that's something that has changed recently with Elite Dangerous...

 

[fademist]

Pfft, I was forced into PvP ALL the time towards the end whenever I ventured into HighSec (ironically I was safer down in null) via gankers, griefers or wardecs.

null is safer specially if u r litle far from trade hubs;p