Eve IS Elite!
- Thread starter boringnick
- Start date
That's again one of these things - why had it to be central element to limit the influence of the players? In FFE, the player actually had a huge influence on the story of the game. If you played the Thargoid storyline, you were the one who established the first peaceful contact with aliens! You brought back the Duval artifact, you assassinated Dr. Innitu, you outmaneuvered INRA! And let's not forget what huge deal the ELITE-rank was made out to in the Frontier and FFE manuals.
So in FFE, one player was able to influence the galaxy in a substantial way. In Eve that got extended to corporations of players being able to infuence the galaxy substantially.
That's my problem with some of the design decisions and attitude of some players. There are limitations in place that seem to be born out of the desire to "not being eve" first and foremost and less with Elite or its sequels. It's as if a huge portion of the players here a former EvE online "victims" with some severe panic reactions towards that game and thus want to exclude any features from ED, no matter how good, that bear resemblence to Eve.
Seems there is a lot of comparison between what is a ten year veteran to a third generation new born here. I was interested in Eve until I watched it being played by a friend who was very involved with the community side of the game which put me off. As the perpetual loner I like a game where I can make friends at my own pace rather than one that requires me make associations with random people to be able to take any part in the game at all.
That said I find myself playing a game that reminds me of the glory days of my youth, they weren't that glorious in truth but I was younger, while offering a lot of potential for future improvements.
Back to the orignal question is Elite the same as Eve, simply no and it shouldn't try to be. That is not to rule out developing the game in future by taking a few ideas from elsewhere but not compromise the core of the game which should, for my money, retain that old school Elite charm.
That said I find myself playing a game that reminds me of the glory days of my youth, they weren't that glorious in truth but I was younger, while offering a lot of potential for future improvements.
Back to the orignal question is Elite the same as Eve, simply no and it shouldn't try to be. That is not to rule out developing the game in future by taking a few ideas from elsewhere but not compromise the core of the game which should, for my money, retain that old school Elite charm.
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this game has potential to kill eve in every-way, by giving players more options to interact with the economy, like building space stations or factory's or mining bases. But the game is Meh, and not much more fun then the originals. If the game stays the way it is it will either die by itself or get killed by star citizen. id play this over star citizen if the universe was a true sandbox, which it should be otherwise no point to having a universe of this size and this dull.
some may want just a graphics update to the game from the 80s and early 90s, but those very few people will be the only ones playing it alone within the next couple years. Other games will simply have more depth and game play value. half way think the only reason to play this is just because i liked the first one, but the first one is really just as much fun, other then graphics i dont see how this is much better at all.
some may want just a graphics update to the game from the 80s and early 90s, but those very few people will be the only ones playing it alone within the next couple years. Other games will simply have more depth and game play value. half way think the only reason to play this is just because i liked the first one, but the first one is really just as much fun, other then graphics i dont see how this is much better at all.
The true intent of a game developer, no matter their words and press releases, is always expressed in their game mechanics. It is widely known that a large number of players will make it their main goal to spoil the game for others. If the game mechanics make this possible, the developer's intent is clear.
The complete lack of a moral compass in EVE is the main issue, that makes it an unpleasant cesspool of douchebaggery.
A prison camp atmosphere full of twisted, spiteful players.
That said,CCP is doing a major service to society with this, by keeping those people occupied in the game.
Without EVE, they'd be walking the streets.
At night...
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You're about right at this point. But FD promised a lot more features than what they released. The general hope is, that they will come through with those features and more, to make rendering the entire galaxy worth while. The potential is huge, the 'game' is just a seed right now.
Sandboxes are overrated, because too large a number of the people who will come to play in them will just recreate the same nasty prison camp atmosphere they have created in sandboxes elsewhere. At the least, a sandbox would have to be supremely well designed to keep it a nice game, you don't have to hide from children and well, anyone else, really.
I think you're going out on a limb claiming to know how many or few people want just a graphics update. I backed for the offline single player game, and going by the outrage over reneging on that, that wasn't just a few people.
That said, EVE certainly gets the award for best interface for the world's most useless software, and ED really is decades behind in UI design.
I think people wanted an all around update, but they all seem to have vastly different ideas of what that is and what's important.
Comparing ED with the X series (excluding Rebirth) comes out like this:
XTC does fail at the overall concept of space and not even providing minimal multiplayer for just 2 or 4 players.
Sorry man, but Eve is a long way from Elite. The inspiration was the same, but Eve has progressed towards a game driven by large, powerful groups of users and DB has made it clear that he wants us to feel more alone and helpless in space. For me - I've bareley played Eve since Elite came out, I love that - at least for now - I can write my own story without the help of 300 'friends'. Eve sometimes feels like more of a job than a game as do many MMOs and I'm encouraged that Elite seems to be breaking that mold - it feels very true to the original spirit of Elite. I think some of the latest Eve updates are sympathetic with the Elite spirit - so, good for them, but this is a different game ;-).
Eve is as much Elite as Everquest is Dungeons & Dragons. Eve has taken more from Elite than the other way around, since Elite came first, that's where it ends.
I fear for the universe based on that logic.
It has nothing to do with griefers, every game has them, and they're dealt with in different ways, based on the game and the company running it.
The Elite series is a space trading/combat simulator, not a station ownership MMORPG. The Elite series has never been about accumulation of things for personal use or ownership, beyond the ship and upgrades added to it.
Eve is about organizations, and virtual objects, as well as combat. Beyond that, the only thing they have in common is that they take place in space.
Enough with trying to turn Elite into what it isn't. If you don't like Elite for what it is, then perhaps you need to play Eve, since you apparently seem to prefer that game. Or, ask yourself, why you left Eve to come to Elite, and why you're trying so hard to make Elite into Eve.
Im sorry... but... what!?
This is rubbish just like the people saying "WoW is the first MMORPG Ever!" which is clearly not true.
Elite : Dangerous= First person action based Online space simulation game and procedurally generated universe with 400 billion locations. its core concepts are NOT open world and instead, instanced based with a matchmaking system. Based on the older Elite franchise which first started in 1984. Because of being so large and its core "Civilized" world being as large as the Eve map, players flock to key locations and you see NPCs other times. Because of this design choice, it can be said that its more of a "Co-op" and Online game verses being an MMO because of the definition of an MMO.
Eve Online= A Massive Multiplayer Online RPG, Third person open world tab target game and players must rank up "Skills" to operate new ships and equipment in typical RPG fashion. The game features only around 7,850 star systems, Most of which you will never ever visit due to being pointless to fly there. It features system based instances and high amounts of PVP. Only the "High Security" Systems see the most players and are by far the most dangerous place to be. The game originally launched around the time that WoW was launched.
Im not a fan boy of either. But please do not compare the two... Its like comparing apples to an orange and going "But they are both fruits!"
Elite Dangerous is more comparable to an Online/Co-op version of Freelancer or the old Elite games. NOT eve online which is an RPG and plays 100% different. I know, space and spaceships flying in space! They are still entirely different games!
This is rubbish just like the people saying "WoW is the first MMORPG Ever!" which is clearly not true.
Elite : Dangerous= First person action based Online space simulation game and procedurally generated universe with 400 billion locations. its core concepts are NOT open world and instead, instanced based with a matchmaking system. Based on the older Elite franchise which first started in 1984. Because of being so large and its core "Civilized" world being as large as the Eve map, players flock to key locations and you see NPCs other times. Because of this design choice, it can be said that its more of a "Co-op" and Online game verses being an MMO because of the definition of an MMO.
Eve Online= A Massive Multiplayer Online RPG, Third person open world tab target game and players must rank up "Skills" to operate new ships and equipment in typical RPG fashion. The game features only around 7,850 star systems, Most of which you will never ever visit due to being pointless to fly there. It features system based instances and high amounts of PVP. Only the "High Security" Systems see the most players and are by far the most dangerous place to be. The game originally launched around the time that WoW was launched.
Im not a fan boy of either. But please do not compare the two... Its like comparing apples to an orange and going "But they are both fruits!"
Elite Dangerous is more comparable to an Online/Co-op version of Freelancer or the old Elite games. NOT eve online which is an RPG and plays 100% different. I know, space and spaceships flying in space! They are still entirely different games!
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I will pray for you my friend. I agree with absolutely everything you have said. However you have broken several unspoken Elite Forum rules for which I am afraid you will not recover from. First infraction is mentioning eve in any other context besides sending somebody back there because they find fault with Elite in it current form. Second obvious infraction is finding fault with Elite in its current form. Expect much troll, many white knight.
It is quite an interesting phenomenon only trumped by the actions of backers of Star Citizen. The vehement defense of any critical statement made against this game which by the developers own admission is unfinished seems at times to defy logic.
As a single player game I'm totally thinking about just starting a new X3:tc run, I like Elite so far but i think it'll be a long time before it even comes close to the depth of X3. the lack of co-op the relatively small universe, although XRM makes it bigger. all in all its a great game when you mod the aspects you find lacking. perhaps ill play elite and x3 side by side and see which one keeps my attention the longest.
also bump because this thread needs to be read by the ppl who think Eve and Elite are mutually exclusive.
also bump because this thread needs to be read by the ppl who think Eve and Elite are mutually exclusive.
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<groan> ... another thread on EVE and ED.
EVE = EVE.
ELITE = ED.
EVE <> ED.
ELITE <> EVE
ED ! EVE = null.
EVE = EVE.
ELITE = ED.
EVE <> ED.
ELITE <> EVE
ED ! EVE = null.
i hope ed will not become eve especaily for combat, cause iam so unlucky at the dices ... 
supercruise and hyperjumps are dissappointing, makete it seamless, just forget about einstein and evrything will work in time! and why not fighting at multiple speeds of light? it will be fun dodging each others shots while getting closer to a star!
supercruise and hyperjumps are dissappointing, makete it seamless, just forget about einstein and evrything will work in time! and why not fighting at multiple speeds of light? it will be fun dodging each others shots while getting closer to a star!
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Thank you, that was very well put.
Actually, it's more like 'this isn't what ED is about, so why change the game to include this just because another game has it?' I play ED because it's different - in essence, it's actually a single-player game focused on a single pilot in a single ship, on their own, or only in relatively small, temporary groups, with an optional quasi-MMOG mode as an added bonus. Many of the features that people most commonly insist MUST be added/changed in ED are in other games because those games are not like this.
Well, actually, I would suggest it's the people saying that such-and-such MUST be added or changed that have to come up with well reasoned logical explanations as to why this is the case. The rest of us are perfectly happy with those things not being added/changed, or, at the very least, couldn't care less if it's added/changed or not.
Shush Robert !;....Now you've done it. (0 0)
I agree that there's a lot of similarity - obviously so, in view of the fact that the original intention of CCP was to make (I quote) a "multiplayer Elite".
The only real big difference is that they chose a different flight model (literally submarines in space, the model is of objects moving through a fluid medium) because at that time the tech wasn't ready for real-time control of lots of ships flying around in space in an MMO context (it's a non-trivial problem to have things moved around realtime by players in 3 dimensions in an MMO - actually City of Heroes' engine was the first MMO engine to my knowledge that solved the problem really well - you could fly and fight with realtime player control in 3-d space - and its heritage is in STO, which has both ground and space combat, still a difficult thing to achieve for an MMO). That enabled them to get off the ground, and eventually become the success they've been.
And EVE at its inception was just as barebones as ED. It took a long time for it to develop the features that make it the massively complex game it is today.
There's obviously room for both games (as well as SC), but I think the big difference between ED and EVE is going to be this: in EVE, you have the player-driven content, certainly, but it has no integration with the NPC game world. Sure, occasionally CCP will integrate some aspect of what players do into the lore, but it's not part of the game mechanics.
The potential ED has is to have the same type of player-driven content (I'm sure there will eventually be as much "sand" in the game as there is in EVE, e.g. corps, all sorts of ways of interacting with things in a sandbox fashion and making your own fun), but the difference will be that it's more tightly integrated with the virtual world the devs have created, and won't be a separate thing happening out on the "fringes", doing its own thing.
If ED turns out the way I think the developers hope, everything a player does will have some effect on the virtual world (the NPC world) as well as on other players when there's player interaction.
If they pull it off, it will be the holy grail of MMOs, it will be what CCP wanted initially, but were never quite able to pull off: the answer to the problem of "but nothing I do really changes anything" (meaning the game world, the NPC world, the world the devs have created, and the ongoing "story" of that world).
Another point, related to this, the "griefer's paradise" nature of EVE is often ably defended by its fans, and it is absolutely correct that player on player ship destruction makes the economy go round, and anything to "soften" that would be bad for the game.
But in this game, the NPC economy is the central factor, and player contribute to and integrate with an economy that has its own life, not at all dependent on players' ship destruction (at least not to the same extent). This is precisely what offers the possibility that ED may be more "balanced" in the end (not purely a player killer's game, but a game that has a more "balanced" population).
I love EVE to bits and have played it for years, and love it for what it is, but I'm hoping ED (and hopefully SC too) will take space sims and MMOs to another level altogether.
The only real big difference is that they chose a different flight model (literally submarines in space, the model is of objects moving through a fluid medium) because at that time the tech wasn't ready for real-time control of lots of ships flying around in space in an MMO context (it's a non-trivial problem to have things moved around realtime by players in 3 dimensions in an MMO - actually City of Heroes' engine was the first MMO engine to my knowledge that solved the problem really well - you could fly and fight with realtime player control in 3-d space - and its heritage is in STO, which has both ground and space combat, still a difficult thing to achieve for an MMO). That enabled them to get off the ground, and eventually become the success they've been.
And EVE at its inception was just as barebones as ED. It took a long time for it to develop the features that make it the massively complex game it is today.
There's obviously room for both games (as well as SC), but I think the big difference between ED and EVE is going to be this: in EVE, you have the player-driven content, certainly, but it has no integration with the NPC game world. Sure, occasionally CCP will integrate some aspect of what players do into the lore, but it's not part of the game mechanics.
The potential ED has is to have the same type of player-driven content (I'm sure there will eventually be as much "sand" in the game as there is in EVE, e.g. corps, all sorts of ways of interacting with things in a sandbox fashion and making your own fun), but the difference will be that it's more tightly integrated with the virtual world the devs have created, and won't be a separate thing happening out on the "fringes", doing its own thing.
If ED turns out the way I think the developers hope, everything a player does will have some effect on the virtual world (the NPC world) as well as on other players when there's player interaction.
If they pull it off, it will be the holy grail of MMOs, it will be what CCP wanted initially, but were never quite able to pull off: the answer to the problem of "but nothing I do really changes anything" (meaning the game world, the NPC world, the world the devs have created, and the ongoing "story" of that world).
Another point, related to this, the "griefer's paradise" nature of EVE is often ably defended by its fans, and it is absolutely correct that player on player ship destruction makes the economy go round, and anything to "soften" that would be bad for the game.
But in this game, the NPC economy is the central factor, and player contribute to and integrate with an economy that has its own life, not at all dependent on players' ship destruction (at least not to the same extent). This is precisely what offers the possibility that ED may be more "balanced" in the end (not purely a player killer's game, but a game that has a more "balanced" population).
I love EVE to bits and have played it for years, and love it for what it is, but I'm hoping ED (and hopefully SC too) will take space sims and MMOs to another level altogether.
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