Accidental friendly fire has to be sorted.

[Nerhtal]

You'd think if there is a ship emptying a full clip of MC's and Lasers into someone the last thing you would do as a pilot (Authority or otherwise, NPC or PC) is fly inbetween an active ship and its target. The problem is the police fly and act as if you are not there. I certainly do not fly in between an Authority vessel who is shooting a wanted target and its target when its got lasers, plasma, children and toys flying out of its pram. Thats just stupidity and it would be MY OWN FAULT if i took damage in that situation.

The problem is the Authority NPC vessels do not think the same. The system isn't setup to handle the fact that the AI flies like a ducking moron (can't say the F word) and has no inbuilt warning signs flashing up like "PROXIMITY TO GIANT DUCKING LASERS IF YOU KEEP ON THIS TRAJECTORY, YOU WILL BE DOCKED 2 WEEKS PAY IF YOU CONTINUE".

So essentially the current wanted/bounty/fine aquisition system would work fine if the AI the authority/npc ships used was more intelligent.

I have literally stopped still once, fired a single beam laser at a target and watched npc ships still manage to fly into it. And theyd be coming in from a good 2-3+km to engage and my beam would be active the whole time almost and they somehow "don't" see it?

 

[graeme.firth]

OP, It is!

Check your fire!!!

 

[bamber]

Accidental friendly fire


Theres an oxymoron for you

 

[smiths121]

Hi All,

i was performing a "kill 5 pirates mission". Had a USS with what looked like Pirate 4 and 5 in. Dispatched Pirate and started on 5. The system defense fleet turned up quite quick and started helping out. I "accidentally" shot one.

I currently have unfriendly status with the Fed - so I must say their response to my mistake was both swift and final - in a way that seemed far more aggressive than when I was neutral. Either that or I was closer to them!

Well died with lots of missions failing - I was trying to restore my rep, I think I may have pushed it further the other way - I think my naval career is over, I think I will have to up roots and head for the Alliance.

I echo other people's comments of controlled fire. When you are bounty hunting you must remember you are scum, when you have a reputation as a bot if a criminal, well those Fed defense boats are just looking a for a reason do not give it to them!

Depending on your rep, the knock on effects of one stray shot can be quite brutal, certainly sent my character down a different path to the one intended. But hey is that fault of the game or the joystick operator????

In my defense - I had been drinking!

Simon

 

[BrewerGeorge]

You'd think if there is a ship emptying a full clip of MC's and Lasers into someone the last thing you would do as a pilot (Authority or otherwise, NPC or PC) is fly inbetween an active ship and its target. The problem is the police fly and act as if you are not there. I certainly do not fly in between an Authority vessel who is shooting a wanted target and its target when its got lasers, plasma, children and toys flying out of its pram. Thats just stupidity and it would be MY OWN FAULT if i took damage in that situation.

The problem is the Authority NPC vessels do not think the same. The system isn't setup to handle the fact that the AI flies like a ducking moron (can't say the F word) and has no inbuilt warning signs flashing up like "PROXIMITY TO GIANT DUCKING LASERS IF YOU KEEP ON THIS TRAJECTORY, YOU WILL BE DOCKED 2 WEEKS PAY IF YOU CONTINUE".

So essentially the current wanted/bounty/fine aquisition system would work fine if the AI the authority/npc ships used was more intelligent.

I have literally stopped still once, fired a single beam laser at a target and watched npc ships still manage to fly into it. And theyd be coming in from a good 2-3+km to engage and my beam would be active the whole time almost and they somehow "don't" see it?

Correct. The solution is to fix the AI so the ships it pilots act like they have some sense!

 

[Aravan Darkvale]

The current system is fine. Shots from your ship strike another, you turn red on their sensors and they go hostile. As they should, unless they are personally acquainted with you well enough to know that you are just incompetent when it comes to the use of dangerous weapons and not actually a threat...oh wait.

Be more cognizant of your surroundings and be more careful about the shots you take.

The current security AI makes being careful moot. I am a careful shot and only take shots when I have a sure hit. I still hit security ships because they do the same maneuver, they come in from behind, literally bump the top of my ship and then drop into my line of fire. My reflexes are good and I can usually cut my fire when I hear the bump but when using beam lasers, sometimes I still graze the ship that literally drops in front of me. Watching the radar does help but when there's 8-10 ships and more than half are behind me and in a line...it's a recipe for friendly fire having to watch directly in front of and in back of me simultaneously.

Seriously, if we could take damage from ship exhaust, my Cobra's windscreen would have been melted dozens of times over. I'm ok with a fine for friendly fire. I don't think you should be instantly wanted and attacked for grazing a friendly. Severely damaging or destroying one, sure thing. Can we get a smidge of gray area here? A fine for strike 1, a bigger fine for strike 2, strike 3 and you're wanted.

 

[inoperable]

The current security AI makes being careful moot. I am a careful shot and only take shots when I have a sure hit. I still hit security ships because they do the same maneuver, they come in from behind, literally bump the top of my ship and then drop into my line of fire.

The security AI is simply buggy, try to stay at a Nav Beacon, destroy some <WANTED> ships, after a while system security turns
red on you - even without touching them (meaning you don't have any kind of bounty/fine)

Another example:
I tried to hunt some bounty with a friend, so we shoot hunted some WANTED ship's, I catched some fire from his multi-cannons, he
automatically turned RED and WANTED - system sec forces instantly turned on him and started shooting... what is the point of MULTIPLAYER
in this game? Trade-Haul races? Nav-beacon stay alive?

Yet another better example:
If you jump into some USS, there are 5 ships, 2 of them are security forces, 3 are wanted pirates... you start shooting
the pirates - and for some insane reason the security forces try to scan your ship and try really hard to do so - getting with
their dumb ass ships into your way. If you fight the other ships, you make that scanning hard for them, so they just simply
stay in your way for the whole fight, then catch some fire and instantly try to kill you... Bounty hunting is really a nut job
in the game. I wish I could just wipe out the sec force aside and play like id like to do.

Last but not least:
If the sec forces shoot you in the ass, while trying to hunt the bounty, they are flagged hostile but they don't feel like
tell sorry or anything, they just buzz around you - then some other ships pop up - and turns red on you cause the sec forces
are hostile to you cause they shoot you in first. Logic?

Solution that comes to mind would be a simple "grace time" for repeated damage coming from the player:
you shoot a friendly once, you got a warning, you do it 2 or 3 times, in less then 3 seconds - you are flagged as hostile, simple.
It can be done in a rather simple algorithm summing damage done in some time, if it exceeds the limit - you are hostile.
That kind of implementation is nothing new - a few games got that and it works fine.

Second soultion, even simplier would be simply RADIO the dumb ass security force and tell them SORRY in time (let's say 5 to 10 secs from the shot without further shots)
No way you can exploit that - if you shoot them 3 times and radio 3 times, there will be no 4th time, period.

I know its more complex than that, but currently it's just not working the way it would make sense.
The system security forces are flying around and catching up multi-cannon bullets and instantly fining and flagging you as hostile WANTED...
That also rip your reputation, even if you clean up the system from pirates your rep goes down cause of system sec feels like Luke Skywalker.
Half mechanic behind this from my perspective...

To test the current security forces insanity just hunt some wanted ships at the nav beacon for a while...

 

[zeddyteddy]

Ya i have had this happen to me as well.. you will be shooting a target and a police ship cuts right in front of u and guess what? you hit him as he drives through your shots. It would be nice to see them not making this kind of move lol

 

[inoperable]

There should be also a bounty hunting license - giving you some grace period with the sec forces, available
from some rank, after certain kills or for a pile of money. That license should give you the salvage rights for
the cargo you pickup and its stolen even if it flies through the galaxy useless...

Another funny bug:
If some sec forces are around, and there is some cargo dropped - open up your cargo hatch, go to 200m towards
the cargo, w8t for some eager sec forces dumb ass to scan you, he does (you don't have the cargo YET) and flies
away (if you have no stole goods that is, but lets assume that now) - then after the scan, pick up the cargo, close
the cargo hatch and make some turns within that spot. TADA! The sec forces know you have illegal cargo, even they
scanned you before and you didn't had any (?!!)

 

[zeddyteddy]

Ya i have had this happen to me as well.. you will be shooting a target and a police ship cuts right in front of u and guess what? you hit him as he drives through your shots. It would be nice to see them not making this kind of move lol

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Ya i have had this happen to me as well.. you will be shooting a target and a police ship cuts right in front of u and guess what? you hit him as he drives through your shots. It would be nice to see them not making this kind of move lol

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Ya i have had this happen to me as well.. you will be shooting a target and a police ship cuts right in front of u and guess what? you hit him as he drives through your shots. It would be nice to see them not making this kind of move lol

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Oh one thing that might help this is to be able to talk to the police and say that you are sorry for them being dumb and to stand down ?

 

[inoperable]

Oh one thing that might help this is to be able to talk to the police and say that you are sorry for them being dumb and to stand down ?

Yeah, that's what I had in mind - wrote some solution proposals above ;]

 

[zeddyteddy]

some of my ideas come from the X series of space games.. the police warn you not to shoot them again ...or else

 

[Katkon]

The mechanic is fine as is - and should not be tweaked. If you "accidentally" shoot a cop today, expect them to shoot back! Check your fire, and maintain situational awareness. If you screw up, leave the zone and pay off your fine.

 

[Jaeger]

At least they are doing something. Good to hear.

Yes it's good to hear that they are doing something. Something so obviously needs to be done it's really good to hear this.

 

[Remiel]

Correct. The solution is to fix the AI so the ships it pilots act like they have some sense!

Why can't the human pilots fly with some sense? I good combat pilot knows to watch his firing arcs and check his line of sight. A good combat pilot has good situational awareness and understands where friendlies are in relation to targets at all times. It's not up to anyone to fix the AI, it's up to the pilots to fly better.

 

[zeddyteddy]

Ya thats true in some cases it still would be nice for them to warn you not to do it again. But ya they would most likely shoot and ask questions later.. and yes you can leave and come back.

 

[Bigcheese]

Imagine you are in a gunfight with police. They know you are there and approve of your assistance, you're on the same side. As you are firing, a cop car flies by and you hit it once. All the police turn their guns on you blow your head off. Yeah.

There is no defending the current AI, it's just dumb. It's not like "Check your fire, Pilot!" is a new idea...

 

[Tenshi]

So I wipe out a Conda to then have a fed fly in front of me copping a shot. Instantly all feds are after me. F%$@#$%^#@%%^^&.

This has to be sorted, it is extremely annoying. And if anyone says you have to watch out for them, how can you when they come from behind.

You need to get better at combat.

Check your firing solution before shooting. Listen to other ships behind you and watch the radar.

I have been in a few combat zones and not once hit a friendly ship. I use beams and multi cannons on gimbal mounts.

If we're to shoot you by accident in the street would the let me go ?

Or put me in jail for either attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon?

Same thing in the game, the galaxy is a harsh place.

 

[FrogsFriend]

I know it's a harsh universe and as a bounty hunter you're not really a member of the police force, or even their friend, so the police don't really care if they kill you or not. I'd also assume that once they start dealing with the criminal themselves they'd expect you to just clear out of the way and let them get on with it.

But having said that, I'd prefer a system where instead of them placing an instant (but insignificant) bounty on you and then trying to kill you, as is currently the case, they instead placed a more significant fine, say 2-3k credits to punish your carelessness and ordered you to immediately cease fire and leave the area within one minute. There could be a grace period of 5-10 seconds on the cease fire part to give you time to react and comply. Of course, if you fail to do as you're told then all bets are off, they'll assume you're hostile and treat you like any other criminal.... shoot to kill.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

The mechanic is fine as is - and should not be tweaked. If you "accidentally" shoot a cop today, expect them to shoot back! Check your fire, and maintain situational awareness. If you screw up, leave the zone and pay off your fine.

That's because we live in a world where one hit with a common weapon always has deadly consequences. And, I might add, that real life police respect that reality by not charging headlong into firefights. Elite is not that world. It takes dozens of shots with anything but the largest of weapons to cause real damage, and the Sec forces don't protect themselves at all.

Why can't the human pilots fly with some sense? I good combat pilot knows to watch his firing arcs and check his line of sight. A good combat pilot has good situational awareness and understands where friendlies are in relation to targets at all times. It's not up to anyone to fix the AI, it's up to the pilots to fly better.

Nonsense. Realism is all well and good, but I swear some of you people are masochists. As I've said before, just because there is a way to work around a broken mechanic doesn't change the fact that the mechanic is broken. At the end of the day, this is a game. A game for which bounty hunting is supposed to be a major component. This mechanic as it currently exists makes bounty hunting unnecessarily difficult, and worse causes an ultimate penalty (bounty and death) for a harmless mistake.

I'm not saying there should be free shots, or any of the other proposals to remove consequences from player actions. I would just like the AI pilots to have a little more care for their own safety - adding realism.