Elite Insurance makes no sense

dcforeman

D
Speculative said:
This is a game. If they wanted, the galaxy could charge you an amount every month to cover your insurance, then make you pay an excess. And as the ships get bigger and more costly so goes up your monthly contributions. Do you have no claims bonus? Nope? Whack another few thousand on.

Do you think the player base would like that?

The system we have is "this will be your excess if you go splat" your choice is whether to go with it or not. It may not be perfect, but go out and try to get RL insurance on that lively Rolls Royce you always liked or similar!

This is simple, effective and does the job. You know about in, his was YOUR mistake, not bad game mechanics.
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Actually, yes I'd love it to be more expensive. I'd love to see a good sensible insurance screen where you can take out a policy. Go to different stations, get different rates. Have a system were the station you got insured at is were you end up returning too. Just imagine finding a station offering half price insurance and watching everying fly there like nutters when you announce it on the forums only to see the price raised.

Heck, have stations competing with each other, tie insurance costs affected by the reputation you have with a specific fraction. That would be amazing.

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Geers said:
WHO CARES IF INSURANCE MAKES SENSE OR NOT. It's a spaceflight sim, not Obamacare Simulator 2015!
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The word you seem to be missing there is SIMULATOR lol. Not arcade shooter.
 
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Eleonore Nali

E
Well, it's a science fiction game. Basically two words are of relevance here: fiction and game.
Sure, the Insurance is unrealistic, so what? So is supercruise, hyperspace, the combat flight physics (way too close to atmospheric flight, when we is actually in a vacuum) and generally just about everything.
But this is supposed to be fun and not a 1:1 re-enactment of hard life in space.

Heck, if I die 10k lightyears from inhabitated space I survive and get magically transported to a station? How?
The only somewhat realistic solution regarding ship destruction is obviously permadeath.
But personally I am definitely glad there are magic escape pods and magic insurance companies, because in absence of a save/reload function permadeath is not fun to me. And everyone who wants permadeath is free to play it that way. Ship goes boom -> wipe save, restart.
 

Geers

Geers
dcforeman said:
Actually, yes I'd love it to be more expensive. I'd love to see a good sensible insurance screen where you can take out a policy. Go to different stations, get different rates. Have a system were the station you got insured at is were you end up returning too. Just imagine finding a station offering half price insurance and watching everying fly there like nutters when you announce it on the forums only to see the price raised.

Heck, have stations competing with each other, tie insurance costs affected by the reputation you have with a specific fraction. That would be amazing.

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The word you seem to be missing there is SIMULATOR lol. Not arcade shooter.
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Sim is short for simulator. I didn't miss anything.
 

dcforeman

D
Jaiotu said:
Yeah... I actually read the post. Finally a discussion of insurance that is worthwhile. To the other responders: he's not whining about losing his ship, he is questioning how the insurance model makes any sense at all. In real-life car insurance you pay a monthly premium that keeps the insurance company in business. Wreckless drivers pay more than drivers with a clean driving record.

The OP is absolutely right. The current system makes absolutely no sense. I don't pay anything up front for the insurance but the moment my ship goes boom the insurance company comes in and gives me a whole new ship for a fraction of the cost.

What would make more sense is for the insurance company to receive a "cut" of my regular profits. If they make money when I make money then it would make perfect sense for them to want to see me back out flying again.
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Ohh a cut of the profits that's a nice idea actually. In fact another player discussed the Pilots federation. What if we had different pilot federations, or unions or groups that take different cuts of your profits. Perhaps there's one that takes 50% of everything you make + a small weekly fee that means there's no excess to pay. Perhaps there's a cheap group that only take 1% but only give you a sidewinder if you die. It would give players a lot more choice.

What about joining illegal pirate federations too, where you have to give up a canister of cargo every time you sell at their base in return for limited insurance. You know alot of fun could be had with the insurance system and it would make the pilot federation vs rivals alot more interesting.
 

dcforeman

D
Geers said:
Sim is short for simulator. I didn't miss anything.
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I mean it's a simulator dude that's why it matters. In fact it's an economic simulator, so that matters more. That's why I care. If it was a 2D scrolling space shooter I wouldn't care either. But it's Elite.
 

Geers

Geers
dcforeman said:
I mean it's a simulator dude that's why it matters. In fact it's an economic simulator, so that matters more. That's why I care. If it was a 2D scrolling space shooter I wouldn't care either. But it's Elite.
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I guess we better remove the FSD and energy shields.
 

kaivalagi

kaivalagi
Maybe in the Elite world all ship premiums are covered by the initial buying price giving the first year of cover and the 1% taxation of transactions made in all stations.....we'll have to wait a year to find out :)

And the 200K loan cap is there because there's needs to be a cap on loans somehow

I think the system is fine as it is, simple just make sure you have the cost covered and you'll be alright.
 
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dcforeman

D
Olrik said:
Really.Doesn't make sense...
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Depends how you look at it. I'm taking the position of "what works as an economic model" rather than a simple player respawn system.

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kaivalagi said:
Maybe in the Elite world all ship premiums are covered by the initial buying price and taxation of transactions made in stations...

And the 200K loan cap is there because there's needs to be a cap on loans somehow

I think the system is fine as it is, simple just make sure you have the cost covered and you'll be alright.
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Ok then we'll agree to differ. I'd like a system that makes me go "ohhh, yeah that makes sense!" that adds to he game play, gets you shopping around stations more. If you're happy with the system as-is that's fine.
 

madfish

M
I don't think the insurance system is any good right now.

I could see adaptations though:
  1. Either a warning message if you're about to leave station uninsured
  2. Paying up front for x times of re-buys.
  3. Having the ability to "rise" the available loan based on your assets. Sidewinder is 200k, ASP e.g. could be 800k

In fact I also could imagine the insurance to become a bit of a moneysink. So that there won't be an ever growing differential between players. Make it an annual fee which needs to be payed upfront and rises the more ships you have / the higher your asset value is. This way we'd prevent people ending up with hundreds of stored ships and billions of CR in their accounts.
 

dcforeman

D
Geers said:
I guess we better remove the FSD and energy shields.
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Haha for a game that's more than 1200 years in the future I think we can all live with FSD and Energy shields.

But I can't live with an econimic model that makes little sense. But hey if you don't care about that why are you posting here?
 

kaivalagi

kaivalagi
dcforeman said:
Ok then we'll agree to differ. I'd like a system that makes me go "ohhh, yeah that makes sense!" that adds to he game play, gets you shopping around stations more. If you're happy with the system as-is that's fine.
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My point was that you're trying to argue for current insurance mechanisms to be in a sim based in the 3300's, maybe things have moved on....all station transactions are made by pilots flying ships that need insurance, that insurance could be covered by taxing the transactions made. I have this form of tax for my healthcare rather than having normal insurance so why not a similar thing here?
 
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dcforeman

D
madfish said:
I don't think the insurance system is any good right now.

I could see adaptations though:
  1. Either a warning message if you're about to leave station uninsured
  2. Paying up front for x times of re-buys.
  3. Having the ability to "rise" the available loan based on your assets. Sidewinder is 200k, ASP e.g. could be 800k

In fact I also could imagine the insurance to become a bit of a moneysink. So that there won't be an ever growing differential between players. Make it an annual fee which needs to be payed upfront and rises the more ships you have / the higher your asset value is. This way we'd prevent people ending up with hundreds of stored ships and billions of CR in their accounts.
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Sure, I could live with all that. How many ships does a player really need to own? :)
 

Remiel

Banned
Remiel
What, you didn't get enough attention with just one thread or something? Insurance is very easy to understand if you pay attention, and you admit it yourself, you weren't paying attention. It's also explained in the manual, but I guess reading is hard.

You need to just log off the PC and go for a walk or something. There are a lot of people who won't throw temper tantrums over losses regardless of their perceived virtual value, and asking "who wouldn't?" suggests you think this is normal behaviour. It's not, it's a sign that you're detached from reality and are taking your game too seriously. Oh, INB4 "but I spent so much time grinding!" No, you didn't, by virtue of playing a video game, you are wasting time. There is nothing productive, and no value, to grinding virtual currency. It's still just a game. Get over it.
 

dcforeman

D
kaivalagi said:
My point was that you're trying to argue for current insurance mechanisms to be in a sim based in the 3300's, maybe things have moved on....all station transactions are made by pilots flying ships that need insurance, that insurance could be covered by taxing the transactions made. I have this form of tax for my healthcare rather than having normal insurance so why not a similar thing here?
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Hey if they write a story telling me how they can afford to give away ships at 1/30th of the cost, I'll read it and buy into it. Right now though, again as an economic model it's not making a great deal of sense in my opinion.
 

dcforeman

D
Remiel said:
What, you didn't get enough attention with just one thread or something? Insurance is very easy to understand if you pay attention, and you admit it yourself, you weren't paying attention. It's also explained in the manual, but I guess reading is hard.

You need to just log off the PC and go for a walk or something. There are a lot of people who won't throw temper tantrums over losses regardless of their perceived virtual value, and asking "who wouldn't?" suggests you think this is normal behaviour. It's not, it's a sign that you're detached from reality and are taking your game too seriously. Oh, INB4 "but I spent so much time grinding!" No, you didn't, by virtue of playing a video game, you are wasting time. There is nothing productive, and no value, to grinding virtual currency. It's still just a game. Get over it.
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Oh stop moaning, lol. The first thread is what made me think about the system. That's when I realised why it was flawed as a business model. And lets face it, Elite is all about the business model, be it fencing stolen goods, collecting bounties, so why shouldn't insurance make more sense? Sure it's just a game, but that doesn't mean it can't be a better game.
 
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