Casual Vs Hardcore

[Ende]

I just wanna get a thread going to discuss a subject which has become the most heavily discussed subject over the past couple of years over at World of Warcraft... Casuals and Hardcore players.

My question is which kind of player would u prefer ED to be aimed at?

For those who dont know 'gamer-speak' ill define the two camps for you....

Hardcore gamers are those players who will spend unhealthy amounts of time in their game of choice, theyre generally happy to do long-grinds to complete the rarer and more difficult tasks a game offers. They want to compete at the top end of the game and top as many rankings as they can. They usually get organised in teams and schedule team runs to complete the tough tasks. This kind of player usually want content to be tough with the best rewards far out of reach so only the most committed players can attain them.

Casuals are those who only want to dip into the game for a short amount of time and just want to be entertained. They arent too bothered about excelling at any part of the game but they want content easy to access and quickly consumed. These guys tend not to stick with one game for a long period of time.

Skill is not an issue here as both groups will have skillful players. And ofc not everyone can be easily defined as one or the other... but all game companies will make a conscious decision how thier game will target these 2 demographics.

To condense this query in relation to Wow, that game is generally accepted that the early days were much more hardcore than it is now. In the early days a large amount of the games content was inaccessible and yet Wow had its highest subs numbers when the game was designed like this. The argument is that when a games content is very hard to even see let alone complete then the playerbase always has something to aim for. The community creates its own myth and legend about those who managed to get through it..

Even the chief dev at League of Legends, Scott Morello, criticised Wow in an interview saying they shouldnt have changed its model towards content accessibility. His argument is that online games must have some very tough content so that everyone always has something to aim for...

When a game is designed around easily accessible content then the devs must release content more frequently because the content gets consumed faster.

I personally dont categorise myself as either Hardcore of Casual, but i do understand why its relevant for ED to hold a clear direction on this subject. I hold the opinion that some content should be very tough to complete, and its cool that only a small number of players will ever get through content.

There is a lot more i could say on this subject but i wont cos i want to see what others think about this...

NOTE: I am not in any way trying to compare Wow or LoL to ED, theyre very different games. This subject effects every game, not just MMOs or multiplayer games.

~Ende~

 

[Alien]

I don't think it matters whether you are a "casual" or "hardcore" player, this isn't a game that you'll play for only a few dozens of hours* but a game that even if you spend every waking moment playing, you'll still be playing it months or years later.

* on the Steam page for X-Rebirth it describes it as a game you'll play for "dozens of hours" ...
honestly, I'm not making that up.

 

[Cody]

I don't think it matters whether you are a "casual" or "hardcore" player, this isn't a game that you'll play for only a few dozens of hours* but a game that even if you spend every waking moment playing, you'll still be playing it months or years later.

<nods>

 

[STABB666]

X-tra! X-tra!

I don't think it matters whether you are a "casual" or "hardcore" player, this isn't a game that you'll play for only a few dozens of hours* but a game that even if you spend every waking moment playing, you'll still be playing it months or years later.

* on the Steam page for X-Rebirth it describes it as a game you'll play for "dozens of hours" ...
honestly, I'm not making that up.

I didn't even make it into double figures of game time for X2, so that claim is a bold one.

I still play FFE on JJFFE. I'm sad that I lost my Amiga orignal, but the point is agreed- I'll probably be dead before I get bored with Elite.

 

[Ende]

I don't think it matters whether you are a "casual" or "hardcore" player, this isn't a game that you'll play for only a few dozens of hours* but a game that even if you spend every waking moment playing, you'll still be playing it months or years later.

I also dont care much for the terminology of Casuals and Hardcores, but my point goes further than that, its one of accessibility.

Should ED have difficult content or easy content?

 

[STABB666]

Hard-core

I also dont care much for the terminology of Casuals and Hardcores, but my point goes further than that, its one of accessibility.

Should ED have difficult content or easy content?

I'd vote for difficult on a sliding scale up to darn near impossible. This is the way of Elite, IMO.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Should ED have difficult content or easy content?

Both - Depending upon which side of the law you reside there will be easy and damn right hard regions of space - as it should be.

 

[Mobius]

i see my self as a hardcore casule gamer Ive got hundreds of titles that I like to dip in and out of.

I would like to think that Elite is a game that is both hardcore and casule at the same time, i see Elite as a sandbox game with no end meaning that it doesnt matter how hardcore or casule the player is as they will both get plenty out of it.

but compairing Elite to WOW or any other Dungeon crawler is like asking should this lump of coal taist like an orange. Elite is a MMO sandbox game aswell as a single player game and because of this should cater for both hardcore and casule gamers alike.

the other difference is that WOW and other mmorpg's like EVE Online gulid wars, yadda yadda yadda! are all level grinders. Elite is different regarding player levels as being an Elite pilot isnt going to make you any stronger than a noob pilot. ( well i hope not anyway)

but as your question asks about the hard difficulity, I say its there already, if you want hardcore just hang around anarchy space. if you want casule stick to the safe zones. and if you want it proper hardcore just play it iron man mode.

 

[Fromhell]

Hardcore only. (i.e. keep it complex, competitive and hard)

BUT this is not about time commitment.
You can play hardcore for 10 hours a week or 40, no difference, just slower progress.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Elite is a MMO sandbox game aswell as a single player game and because of this should cater for both hardcore and casule gamers alike.

That doesn't make sense - MMO/Single player has nothing to do with hardcore/casual

One pair is a game type
The other is a play style

 

[Slawkenbergius]

Fairly casual, but not completely without challenge, if you're doing trade runs in the core worlds. Hardcore in the less salubrious parts of the Frontier, or if you decide to attack an Imperial Cruiser. Every shade of grey in between.

 

[The_Thargoid]

I think it's fully possible to appeal to both sets of gamers with myself I would consider myself as a Hardcore Game Player for E and will be eagerly awaiting those long missions to acquire that rare piece of equipment or ship type etc. However People I have already introduced to the E premise have been of the casual gamer type and pulling a few military missions with a bit of trading for a few hours a day will keep them fully engaged as long as the gap between the Hardcore and the casual doesn't become so massive the lesser played accounts end up as fodder hence ruining their play .. i mean who does enjoy a situation where you can't progress because your hounded every time you get out of the safe area..
I think both types of Gamer have a place in E the difficulty is going to be in making it fun for everyone to interact seamlessly in the universe Frontier Developments will create..
Ideally as a close knit fan base of elite spanning 30 odd years of players there shouldn't be groups of players hounding newbies or players of an obvious disadvantage to themselves and we can all get a great experience out of the game.
To try and answer the question posed... I would very much enjoy having to play the game for years and still be trying to upgrade my kit that little bit more to gain the advantage if a game is too easy I will lose interest, in he single player environment if i can complete a game in a week i generally don't play it again however if it takes me months or years to get that beloved 100% I'm more than likely to start up a new game save and try other routes. Final fantasy series of games was always a hook for me on that front along with the elite series.
I hope I didn't ramble on too much and I hope it provides my insight anyway

Out..

 

[KING5TON]

When I was younger I couldn't afford many games. Due to this I tended to play 1 or 2 games exclusively and I used to compete at the top level (was in the No.1 team in the world at certain games e.g. Battlefield 2 Project Reality (iGi FTW!))

Nowadays I've got disposable income coming out of the wazoo and I've got hundreds of games (150 Xbox, 50 PS3 and 120+ PC games) and I can only spend so much time on each game.

By your definition I was hardcore now I'm casual.
I consider myself a gamer, I love games and play them as much as I can.

I would agree that games in general have been dumbed down over the years and that current games (especially console games) are getting easier and simpler. I don't think that will be the case with E: D and there will always be bastions of complex deep games out there (especially on the PC).

 

[jabokai]

I played WoW as a casual (but still spending way too much time) player up until level 58 when I was recruited by the top Alliance guild on the server. I loved the casual journey. I then loved the hardcore raiding and sever firsts. I then realised it had become a job and quit!

What I'd like in ED? For the casual journey to be endless! No endgame, per se, just a seamless, ongoing journey, with different challenges and experiences along the way.

So my answer to the question, speaking on a personal level, is very definitely "casual".

 

[KING5TON]

I played WoW as a casual (but still spending way too much time) player up until level 58 when I was recruited by the top Alliance guild on the server. I loved the casual journey. I then loved the hardcore raiding and sever firsts. I then realised it had become a job and quit!

What I'd like in ED? For the casual journey to be endless! No endgame, per se, just a seamless, ongoing journey, with different challenges and experiences along the way.

So my answer to the question, speaking on a personal level, is very definitely "casual".

Pretty similar experience in WOW that I had.
Joined not long before Litch King came out, spent about a year casually leveling up to 80, joined a guild and raided, quit when my GPU blew up but it was getting to be a job and I was ready to quite anyways.

Horde though, not pansy Alliance

 

[Calebe]

I was a hard core gamer in Everquest. One of the top raiding guilds, on every night at 7:00 till Midnight or whenever we quit, and that was Monday thru Thursday. They did raid on Friday and Saturday but it was to much. I finally quit this year because I am enjoying free time to do what I want and not grind another raid we won 30 times to win it for the 31st time, and the politics of it all. I was an officer in the guild but it didn't matter. Certain people made rules I didn't like but had to support etc....

So now Elite Dangerous is on the horizon and like many I pledged high enough to get the premier boxed addition, beta access etc.. but I don't want another hard core required gaming experience. I want a casual friendly game that is easy to play, hard to learn, impossible to beat as no end game and so much content you will never see it all (which we will have).

So hard core? What is hard core depends on the person. To me hard core is, it requires 5 hours a day on weekdays, at least 8 on weekends, 7 days a week to advance and be at the top of the game. Elite won't be any of that. Hard Core in Elite means you play a lot but there are no raids, there is no mission you need 54 people for to accomplish, you can do it all on your own.

Missions will be easy medium and hard, but they are not required, you can trade or explore, and skip missions. In Everquest raiding meant you had the very best gear, and the game was easier once you had it for all content and the casual person was really at a disadvantage. People who raided wanted even a bigger disadvantage for non raiders, while asking for even harder content for them in the open non raid zones to make it a hard challenge for them but impossible for the 95% who didn't raid.

Lets not make that mistake in ED the best gear should not be only obtainable by groups of people out to gain it all only to ask for harder and harder content to satisfy what they want while the majority just won't have the gear (ships, weapons, shields) to compete. Make multiply ways so all can progress, and not lock it into only the few. Skill as a pilot will even things out a bit, but locking gear to only the few will cause a lot to quit, as what is the point I will never get it.

I hope the make it damn hard crowd realize that will limit the player base, but the easy to play, hard to learn it all, and impossible to beat and so many things to see will keep all playing.

Calebe

 

[Ende]

The reason im introducing this query is because once the game is released i am very sure that this subject will become a hot topic...

I want a casual friendly game that is easy to play, hard to learn, impossible to beat as no end game and so much content you will never see it all (which we will have).

Whereas i wholeheartedly agree with this point i am confused why u request 'no end game'?

The endgame of any game is critical to a games success and therefore must be well thought out. Even sandbox games have endgame content. Endgame content is basically the content available to play (usually repeatable) once u hit top level. Its the content to ensure players keep playing.

Ofc ED wont have a levelling system in the traditional sense but it will have alot of other apsects which players will level up. Reputations spring to mind for example, also earning enough cash to buy the top kit.

Basically content will be put in the game that high ranked players will put their efforts towards. I foresee hardcore missions for both single and group play for example. Ones which give rare rewards, maybe they give a very small % chance to drop something cool which will encourage players to keep repeating it till it 'drops'. These missions will be suicide to even attempt until u have pretty much maxed out your character.

Dont make the mistake in thinking that end game content is like a final boss which once u kill him u have beaten the game... thats not what i mean here.

I hope the make it damn hard crowd realize that will limit the player base, but the easy to play, hard to learn it all, and impossible to beat and so many things to see will keep all playing.

I think the vast majority want ED to be easy to access and get started but it must have some extremely hard aspects to it too.

 

[Nagual]

To me causal means short play time, hardcore meaning playing every waking moment you have free sort of thing. So as long as there is stuff to do it's really irrelevant what play style you choose.
The game, for me, should be challenging from the beginning but not off putting, and like that through out it's life. Since We will be getting expansions over the next wee while, I'd say we will be okay for a few years at least

The endgame of any game is critical to a games success and therefore must be well thought out. Even sandbox games have endgame content. Endgame content is basically the content available to play (usually repeatable) once u hit top level. Its the content to ensure players keep playing.

I personally hate the term 'endgame'. Elite has no end, other than what you give it. As long as there is still systems to explore, stuff to trade and the occasional mission / event, I'll be good to go.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I personally hate the term 'endgame'. Elite has no end, other than what you give it. As long as there is still systems to explore, stuff to trade and the occasional mission / event, I'll be good to go.

Rather than "endgame" then how about "long term goals" ?

 

[Calebe]

The only end game would be to visit every star system which is impossible, so there is no end game, as we will never know what was missed, it is impossible. Is there an alien race or a derelict no one found? We will never know. So how can their be an end game?

Now there can be an 'end game' goal of reaching ELITE status, and getting the best ship, shields, and weapons available (if there is one such ship), or one you perceive to be that ship. That could be your end game goal, but by no means the end of the game.

So what I mean as there is no end goal, well my end goal is to visit every system and planet and as we know at 100,000,000,000 such systems it is not possible. So how is there an end game? You may reach your personal goals of status, reputation, credits acquired, and number of systems you wish to explore. However if your goal is to explore, and see all the wonders the game may hold, then it won't end. That is if and I hope they do it, the procedural generation allows the game to put ships, life forms, and mysteries throughout the universe it creates that you never do run out of things to see and explore. if they do, the end goal will never be reached, to see anything new you missed. It won't be possible.

In other words no end game, but reached goals are always possible, but seeing and doing it all? Won't happen, so to my way of thinking no one will reach the end game, unless space is empty and all it is is seeing planets that look alike and have nothing of interest to marvel at after the first bunch. I doubt that will be the case.

Calebe