Balance Hourly Rates - Exploring needs a huge % Uplift on body values

[SpacialKatana]

The rewards per object are fine, all it needs is a distance from home systems multiplier. Further you go, more money a scan is worth. Balances the income easily and rewards true exploration (those willing to travel the immense distances and endure the jump, jump, jump monotony and the other inherent dangers exploring brings).

Example: Why should someone near the home systems receive the same for a gas giant 50 ly's from Sol that I get for a scan of similar object 10,000ly's away? That's not balance.

Cheers, SK.

 

[Lodorenos]

The rewards per object are fine, all it needs is a distance from home systems multiplier. Further you go, more money a scan is worth. Balances the income easily and rewards true exploration (those willing to travel the immense distances and endure the jump, jump, jump monotony and the other inherent dangers exploring brings).

Example: Why should someone near the home systems receive the same for a gas giant 50 ly's from Sol that I get for a scan of similar object 10,000ly's away? That's not balance.

Cheers, SK.

Good idea! I find it strange to be paid similarly for nearly identical systems when one is 2800 ly away and the other is still in the inhabited bubble.

 

[SpacialKatana]

Exploring is certainly not just making money, its about shooting off into the unknown. I'm sure it wasn't initially profitable for Dr Livingstone or any other intrepid explorer..

whats the obsession with credits??

Because it's the credits you make that affect the rank-up. I don't care about the money, it's about my rank.

 

[Geers]

Good idea! I find it strange to be paid similarly for nearly identical systems when one is 2800 ly away and the other is still in the inhabited bubble.

Wouldn't it be stranger for a faction to pay more for information on a system they'd have more ​difficulty getting to?

 

[Fieldy]

Because it's the credits you make that affect the rank-up. I don't care about the money, it's about my rank.

ahh I get you.

 

[vicwolf]

Ok here are the very broad average hourly (game time) rates paid by the professions I have tried.

Trading 1,300,000 Per Hour
Bounty 500,000 Per Hour
Missions 500,000 Per Hour
Mining 400,000 Per Hour
Exploring 40,000 Per Hour

This is NOT a troll bait post, the numbers speak for themselves..

I'm on my way back from a 12,000ly + round trip and I know before I do anything else I will need to spend 330,000 credits on repairs.

The trip has taken a week and I'm still 3,000ly out. I'm hoping to collect around 3,000,000 (Before repairs) for a lot of scanning effort.

Everyone talks about balance, I love exploring but I need some upgrades, so I think I will have to start trading. Is this by design? As in - Exploring is a pastime of the rich?

Would anyone form FD like to comment?

Thanks

Nutter

Maybe they should expedite putting in level 2 and level 3 detailed scans.

 

[SpacialKatana]

Maybe they should expedite putting in level 2 and level 3 detailed scans.

Wouldn't hold your breath, I think that's going to come with planetary landings, ie a surface sample. Level 2 probably atmospheric sample, 3 like I said surface sample.

 

[vicwolf]

I believe we should be careful not to boil every single game activity down to cr/hour

Except that is how the game values activities as proven by it being how you rank up your 3 roles (by how much you've earned doing it).

 

[kamenjar]

Example: Why should someone near the home systems receive the same for a gas giant 50 ly's from Sol that I get for a scan of similar object 10,000ly's away? That's not balance.
Cheers, SK.

In a way that's true, but not that needed. Out there there's abundance of neutron stars and black holes ETC that you don't have back home. If only those were bumped up in profits, it would be great. The missions should be the real fix for it IMO.

 

[SpacialKatana]

In a way that's true, but not that needed. Out there there's abundance of neutron stars and black holes ETC that you don't have back home. If only those were bumped up in profits, it would be great. The missions should be the real fix for it IMO.

We're both right, but the distance multiplier is the quickest + easiest fix for FD that would, I think you'd agree, appease most of us hardcore explorers right now.

 

[CmdrPSB]

Because it's the credits you make that affect the rank-up. I don't care about the money, it's about my rank.

I'd imagine if FD massively upped credits for exploration the criteria for each rank would be massively upped as well.

 

[NeilF]

Except that is how the game values activities as proven by it being how you rank up your 3 roles (by how much you've earned doing it).

But please tell me I'm not alone in wanting stuff like this then - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94802&page=2&p=1478800&viewfull=1#post1478800

Surely people want an element of risk when exploring of encountering something they were not expecting - Surely exploring without this risk is missing something

 

[andyl]

5. A bonus for "fully" explored systems. Skipped over that single icy planet? No 25% bonus for you!

Yep - this would be good, although obviously it would favour those who have an advanced disco scanner, as they can find the companions (and really far out planets) much more quickly.

But also what is a "fully" explored system. Scanned all the rocks in the belts too? That can be a lot more work. But then again there are those systems with no other bodies other than the main star so I suppose it all balances out.

More exotic stars should be worth more. So Herbig Ae/Be should be worth a bit more than class Ms which are 10 a penny. Similarly you might have different payouts depending on differences in spectra for exmaple on Wolf-Rayet stars and white dwarfs.

Over on the suggestions forum I made the following post https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=93936 which could increase the payout (at the cost of sinking more time into exploring - but also making it feel more like a survey than a sight-seeing trip).

 

[SpacialKatana]

I'd imagine if FD massively upped credits for exploration the criteria for each rank would be massively upped as well.

Fixed with a simple balance equation applied to rank.

 

[SvennoJ]

I was trading to be able to afford an asp and go on a real exploration tour. Yet after a few trial runs I'm already getting burned out on the long distance super cruise flights and waiting for the 'detailed' surface scanner to deliver the same basic information every time. I find myself alt-tabbing and reading this forum while the ship goes on another 40k ls journey. Unfortunately that seems to crash the game, as it just now went into a seizure and an Direct3D failed to load file error closed the game :/
Seems the fun alternative to trading is actually less fun than making the perfect/smoothest docking attempt.

My wishlist for exploration:
- Exploration missions, for example quests to track down ancient expeditions, rescue missions, sent probes to newly discovered planets.
- Show a holo representation of the body I'm scanning in the cockpit with information that gets filled in while scanning.
- Allow me to review the last scanned body from the cockpit without having to find it in the system map.
- More interesting information instead of basic statistics.
- More interesting things to find.
- Faster FSD for long distances, or option to jump to companion star.
- Travel log with explored route and statistics, largest star found, biggest system found, list of habitable planets found etc.
- Extra information for unidentified signal events. Slowing all the way down and dropping out of fsd for stolen goods is disappointing.

 

[Drathmar]

We're both right, but the distance multiplier is the quickest + easiest fix for FD that would, I think you'd agree, appease most of us hardcore explorers right now.

Except if it is far away it is less valuable as it's ahrder to get to to make value out of it therefore it should be worth less than something closer.

 

[Alric]

But would you like all traders to start exploring as trading is much less enjoyable? I do trading just for money and exploring mostly for pure fun...

Yes. Incentivising boring gameplay is a really bad thing to do. You're encouraging players to be bored in your game.

If explorers find trading boring, they should explore. If pirates find it boring they should pirate. If traders find it boring then you have a problem with your trade game not with the profits of exploring!

The answer to poor gameplay should always be to make it better. Making it more profitable actually harms the game.

 

[Conestoga]

Incentivizing stuff you don't want to do is a bad idea, that's true. However, I don't think anyone thinks exploration should be buffed to the point of competing with trading for pure cash. I look at it more as simple gameplay psychology. Being acknowledged for doing something - simple classical conditioning - goes a long way to make gameplay more immersive and enjoyable.

When I get one of those Elite Conda Kill missions, it feels great. I kill the bad guy and get a six figure payout. Truth is, I can make ten times more in 15 minutes in my type 9, but the play experience is very rewarding. It makes me want to kill more bad guys for the Empire. It's true that I can go run around randomly killing wanted guys, but it's not the same.

Deeper mission mechanics can make exploration feel very engaging. You feel like you're making a difference.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Ok here are the very broad average hourly (game time) rates paid by the professions I have tried.

Trading 1,300,000 Per Hour
Bounty 500,000 Per Hour
Missions 500,000 Per Hour
Mining 400,000 Per Hour
Exploring 40,000 Per Hour

This is NOT a troll bait post, the numbers speak for themselves..

I'm on my way back from a 12,000ly + round trip and I know before I do anything else I will need to spend 330,000 credits on repairs.

The trip has taken a week and I'm still 3,000ly out. I'm hoping to collect around 3,000,000 (Before repairs) for a lot of scanning effort.

Everyone talks about balance, I love exploring but I need some upgrades, so I think I will have to start trading. Is this by design? As in - Exploring is a pastime of the rich?

Would anyone form FD like to comment?

Thanks

Nutter

I made about 14k exploring with just a basic discovery scanner on a 10 jump journey back to Lugh, and the repairs were under 100 credits. My ship is a Cobra set up to run courier missions. That mostly paid for a test of the wear and tear mechanism I did, by traveling 0.22 ly to Hutton Orbital. Total journey back to Lugh took me less than an hour, IIRC.

If you're making so little money with a dedicated explorer, I have the following recommendations:

1) DON'T go scan objects far from you. Wear and Tear seems to be directly proportional to distance traveled in Supercruise, NOT the time spent.

2) Look at the ship you're flying. W&T is capped at your (undiscounted) insurance deductible. A huge ship with A class components is a lot more expensive to maintain than a smaller ship with just the components you need to do your job.

3) Be picky about your targets. As I understand it, data about sun-like stars, Earth-like planets, and resource rich planets and rings are more valuable than brown dwarfs and little ice balls.

 

[vicwolf]

I made about 14k exploring with just a basic discovery scanner on a 10 jump journey back to Lugh, and the repairs were under 100 credits. My ship is a Cobra set up to run courier missions. That mostly paid for a test of the wear and tear mechanism I did, by traveling 0.22 ly to Hutton Orbital. Total journey back to Lugh took me less than an hour, IIRC.

If you're making so little money with a dedicated explorer, I have the following recommendations:

1) DON'T go scan objects far from you. Wear and Tear seems to be directly proportional to distance traveled in Supercruise, NOT the time spent.

2) Look at the ship you're flying. W&T is capped at your (undiscounted) insurance deductible. A huge ship with A class components is a lot more expensive to maintain than a smaller ship with just the components you need to do your job.

3) Be picky about your targets. As I understand it, data about sun-like stars, Earth-like planets, and resource rich planets and rings are more valuable than brown dwarfs and little ice balls.

You don't understand. 14k is literally NOTHING.