Friendly fire thread

[Noogillim]

Ever wasted a few brain cells on thinking about the other side of game play?

If a a set of pilots who are set upon by the opposition is set upon by all and sundry spraying fire all over the place with nil consequences then it is simply an arcade game.

I take it that you want no damage done to your friends or done to you by your friends by your reckless disregard?

The current style of damage mechanics is balanced quite well - if say the opposition was spraying the authority vessels I guess you'd find it okay if the authority vessels took no action against the other side also? no you'd be posting a whining post on here!


I used to play WWIIOL and you could reign down fire on all and sundry and only the enemy took damage from your sides fire power. It made that game flawed.

At least in this game if I mistakenly sprayed a friendly ship in a tussle with some opposition there are consequences.

 

[JNSkyraider]

I can understand the argument for watching your fire, but in a fight I got in, a police Viper flew in front as my laser fired, which I would view as their fault, and I got a fine from it. There should be a way to communicate with police while flying to pay off minor fines like that, as you can in Skyrim for example where you could potentially injure a guard by accident.

 

[Remiel]

I've read that so many times by now that I actually start to think that some people seriously use a part of the game's name as an argument to defend everything from random ship explosions for no reason to your monitor falling on your cat. "It's supposed to be DANGEROUS, deal with it."

The difference between my use, and your childish examples, is mine applies.

I never saw anyone defend police fighters becoming hostile if you hadn't performed a criminal act, not once, not ever. In fact, I saw the same people, myself included, stating they agreed with fixing that particular irk. But if you shoot something you're not supposed to, you're gonna get murdered. You should get murdered. If it was me you shot, you would get murdered. I wouldn't even blink.

 

[Speedbird]

Range safety is the commanders responsibility. Make sure you know what you will hit, before you pull the trigger.

if no clean shot, then let it go.

elite dangerous is Darwinian, what do you expect?

 

[KillaALF]

Same has happened to me before, just get out of there and go pay it off, it comes with the territory. Even when I'm careful, one of the NPC's will fly in front of me just at the wrong time and one single bullet from my multi-cannon will give a bounty. £%$ happens!

That's the way to deal with it. The thing is, the more you play, the less it will happen. Promise!

 

[Remiel]

I can understand the argument for watching your fire, but in a fight I got in, a police Viper flew in front as my laser fired, which I would view as their fault, and I got a fine from it. There should be a way to communicate with police while flying to pay off minor fines like that, as you can in Skyrim for example where you could potentially injure a guard by accident.

It was your fault - you were the one with your finger on the trigger.

And this isn't Skyrim.

 

[Turnips]

The difference between my use, and your childish examples, is mine applies.

I never saw anyone defend police fighters becoming hostile if you hadn't performed a criminal act, not once, not ever. In fact, I saw the same people, myself included, stating they agreed with fixing that particular irk. But if you shoot something you're not supposed to, you're gonna get murdered. You should get murdered. If it was me you shot, you would get murdered. I wouldn't even blink.

You don't see much then. There was multiple messages telling you to carefully check whic faction the bounty belonged to and if the local cops belong to the same faction. Was supposedly logical too that the cops (who place bounties) don't want strangers coming in and killing their local criminals.

 

[Remiel]

You don't see much then. There was multiple messages telling you to carefully check whic faction the bounty belonged to and if the local cops belong to the same faction. Was supposedly logical too that the cops (who place bounties) don't want strangers coming in and killing their local criminals.

Yes, I know, I was typing them, as a warning to alert players to what was going on and why, while simultaneously stating it needed to be fixed. Funny how they fixed that, and not friendly fire - one was a problem, the other was not.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

So no changes? no fixing? game is fine, nothing needs to be improve? With this attitude game will die soon.

DOOOOOMMMM! DOOM i say.

Yes dear poster, we have heard this before.

Consensus is: Situational awareness, watch your fire.

They are the cops, they have the right of way. You are at best an interloper who the cops will grudgingly accept your help killing a target. This isn't Skyrim. You are not the chosen one. You are a small person in a big universe. The universe does not revolve around you. What you have to do is survive living in the universe and don't let it kill you.

So yes, i think this particular mechanism is perfect. If you disagree, that's fine, everyone can have their opinion, but don't expect FD and everyone else to agree with you and get all huffity when they don't.

 

[JNSkyraider]

It was your fault - you were the one with your finger on the trigger.

And this isn't Skyrim.

I never said it was Skyrim, I was just giving an example. And pretty sure that in real life allied fighter pilots don't fly in front of each other when dogfighting to avoid friendly fire, so why in the future would a spaceship suddenly do so?

 

[Remiel]

I never said it was Skyrim, I was just giving an example. And pretty sure that in real life allied fighter pilots don't fly in front of each other when dogfighting to avoid friendly fire, so why in the future would a spaceship suddenly do so?

This isn't real life, either.

Also, you're wrong. In big furballs when gunfighters were a thing, it happened more than you clearly know. That's why planes have the markings they do, so you can eyeball who is friendly, and who is not. If you wanna compare Elite to real life, you'll wanna compare it to world war II aerospace combat first, modern second, but in this case, WWII applies because most people are using guns instead of missiles. General rule of thumb in aerospace combat is, you watch your own sightlines, your own field of fire. You don't watch anyone else's field of fire because you need to focus on what you're shooting at. Exceptions apply to wingmen who are watching a friendly's back, but that's about it.

What makes this extra funny, though, is that despite the confusion of the odd furball or two during WWII, there were less Allied friendly fire incidents in total than I've seen complaints about getting bounties for shooting stuff you're not supposed to on these forums. Why is that funny? Because you have something they didn't - a very clear and concise radar system that shows you the positions and movements of everything within your local battlespace.

 

[Dissentient]

I constantly watch my fire and after 600 bounties I only accidentally hit someone three or four times and I still think that this is absolutely stupid and adds nothing to the game.

I do not say that watching your fire shouldn't be a thing, it's just instead of annoying 200 cr bounty why not get 10k fine instead?
Why are there so many people defending completely a mechanic that makes absolutely no sense?

 

[Turnips]

You are at best an interloper who the cops will grudgingly accept your help killing a target.

No, actually they are desperate enough for mine and anybody else's help that they are willing to pay big amount of credits for it. Why do I become their #1 target after one misplaced shot instead of the huge ship that has been barraging them with full power for past five minutes?

 

[Hatsune Miku]

It's like you people aren't capable of rationality. Does it not occur to you that the damage threshold before turning hostile could be quite minimal?
Not a single person has suggested that they should be immune to the consequences of friendly fire or be completely reluctant to return fire until they're at 1% hull.
How the - do you come to this extremity?

 

[Dissentient]

How the - do you come to this extremity?

Making strawmen is the national sport of FD forums.

 

[Skip Intro]

This isn't real life, either.

Also, you're wrong. In big furballs when gunfighters were a thing, it happened more than you clearly know. That's why planes have the markings they do, so you can eyeball who is friendly, and who is not. If you wanna compare Elite to real life, you'll wanna compare it to world war II aerospace combat first, modern second, but in this case, WWII applies because most people are using guns instead of missiles.

You also had a very finite load of ammo, so you couldn't just hold down the trigger and spray bullets about like water from a hose.

 

[Major Lag]

If you wanna compare Elite to real life, you'll wanna compare it to world war II aerospace combat first, modern second, but in this case, WWII applies because most people are using guns instead of missiles. General rule of thumb in aerospace combat is, you watch your own sightlines, your own field of fire. You don't watch anyone else's field of fire because you need to focus on what you're shooting at. Exceptions apply to wingmen who are watching a friendly's back, but that's about it.

WWII pilots didn't shoot thier own friends if one nicked another with a single stray bullet, this behavior is stupid and illogical, and is not fun, just like true newtonian space flight would not be fun to fly in.

What makes this extra funny, though, is that despite the confusion of the odd furball or two during WWII, there were less Allied friendly fire incidents in total than I've seen complaints about getting bounties for shooting stuff you're not supposed to on these forums. Why is that funny? Because you have something they didn't - a very clear and concise radar system that shows you the positions and movements of everything within your local battlespace.

Because real human pilots don't dive in front of their buddies who are already firing at the enemy, and if they did catch a stray bullet they would probably never know who did it and if they did they would never report their buddy hit them, why would you do that to your wingman over a single stray shot? Say they did report them, no one would ever go to jail or be executed over it, friendly fire is an well known and accepted risk in combat.

 

[Helo]

You're right, it does need to change ASAP. Improve your awareness and stop shooting the cops.

 

[KillaALF]

WWII pilots didn't shoot thier own friends if one nicked another with a single stray bullet, this behavior is stupid and illogical, and is not fun, just like true newtonian space flight would not be fun to fly in.

I find this behaviour a lot of fun, actually, because in the end it makes me a better pilot. I don't know you what motivates you, but I for one find it refreshing that I can't behave like a bull in the china shop.

Because real human pilots don't dive in front of their buddies who are already firing at the enemy, and if they did catch a stray bullet they would probably never know who did it and if they did they would never report their buddy hit them, why would you do that to your wingman over a single stray shot? Say they did report them, no one would ever go to jail or be executed over it, friendly fire is an well known and accepted risk in combat.

And if that stray shot went straight through your cranium, you'd be singing a different song, I'm sure. Well, you'd be dead, of course, so you could sing with the angels. Hit a cop - get out and pay off your bounty - come back and try a bit harder not to hit the cops. Learn and adapt.

 

[Dissentient]

I find this behaviour a lot of fun, actually, because in the end it makes me a better pilot. I don't know you what motivates you, but I for one find it refreshing that I can't behave like a bull in the china shop.

Again, strawmen.
No one asks for 0 consequences for friendly fire.
People ask for reasonable penalty, not a mandatory 10-minute trip to a station to pay 300 cr bounty.