Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Dabba]

But since even a moderator warms this topic up I start to worry about what's going on here. Some internal directives perhaps to fathom the common mood about this?

Yes this. If its not something they are considering why make an official topic to discuss it? If its just to keep the forum tidy then thats great, but at least tell us that. If it is because changes are being considered by development then that makes it of great import. I would just like to know one way or the other if its just a corner to keep the mess from spreading or if its something being seriously considered and thats why theres an offical moderator sanctioned topic about it.

 

[Shismar]

At this time open play is only for PvP players. PvE players will either choose solo or their private group. Until Frontier implements massive limitations on what players can do to each other in all but a very specific zones and circumstances, this is going to be so.

As an MMO veteran, I'd love to play with other players, but I am not available to be be attacked by other players any time and for whatever reason they choose. And not jumping through hoops such as private groups either.

I do not think the current game design concerning PvP is good for the game. Neither for PvP, nor for PvE players. No PvP outside designated zones or without a specific status or open play will never fly.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

That may describe part of the audience for this game, but you're ignoring another type of gamer -- the air combat and flight sim enthusiast. Some of us actually knew what "HOTAS" meant before showing up for this game.


<snip>

I was a VATSIM ATC and Pilot. Recent? VATSIM's been around for over ten years. I stopped because I did not have the time to continue.

David Braben's idea of PVP in Elite was that it would be rare and meaningful. It was never designed to be a PVP arena. In fact, probably the number one reason for people deserting Open when they were capable of it, is unwanted PVP combat. Hence the 2500+ members of mobius and the tons of people who wanted offline because they simply don't want that kind of reaction.

if there was any chance of convincing them to try open, it's arguments that Elite is a PVP arena that have cemented their view and you have lost them from Open altogether.

Add insult to injury, there are people who then suggest that Open should pay more or get better benefits...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

At this time open play is only for PvP players. PvE players will either choose solo or their private group. Until Frontier implements massive limitations on what players can do to each other in all but a very specific zones and circumstances, this is going to be so.

As an MMO veteran, I'd love to play with other players, but I am not available to be be attacked by other players any time and for whatever reason they choose. And not jumping through hoops such as private groups either.

I do not think the current game design concerning PvP is good for the game. Neither for PvP, nor for PvE players. No PvP outside designated zones or without a specific status or open play will never fly.

I have a thread going here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=97498 with poll. The premise of it is to actually make Murdering a clean pilot very much harder to sustain, like how many other roles within the game are. At the moment, I agree with you, it is far to easy. The fines are too small and it's effective to wipe save and carry out ramming/missile attacks as an exploit to continue the behaviour without taking the consequences.

 

[Halp]

I would just like to know one way or the other if its just a corner to keep the mess from spreading or if its something being seriously considered and thats why theres an offical moderator sanctioned topic about it.

me too, but we don't have to know that. so if anyone has any strenght left to debate, go ahead ! i don't.

 

[AndyWeller]

For curiosity's sake, is the Solo/Open/Group dynamic in this game something that is subject to change? Are the developers actually watching this and seriously considering altering how the matchmaking and shared galaxy work? Or is this really just a tidy corner to keep all the deceased mammal abuse and unproductive circular debate on this issue from clogging the forums?

I just wonder because if it is subject to change and the devs are actively considering that then I feel I have a duty to continue banging my head against this wall. If its certainly not going to change Id like to know that now so I can just forget about this topic forever.

.
I'd just forget about it if I were you. nothing will change.
.
Me on the other hand.....

 

[Daffan]

Games not even balanced for open/solo/private so it doesn't even matter. Open play is a pvp griefer fest (and yes im a pvper at heart, i even support full-loot death) while solo is a trading fest. There was no real thought into the consequences, risk or reward in either modes

Overall, 1 phrase is enough to say what is wrong with the whole modes and games

RISK vs REWARD is terrible.

 

[Halp]

My last suggestion in the suggestions section was to be able to transfer assets from solo to open for a period of time, and then indefinitely through a paid transfer. it would incapacitate solo players to manipulate the ''open'' market, especially in isolated areas guarded by pirates who make their own trade in order to upgrade a system..and that's all from me. tired of this topic.

 

[Zenicetus]

I was a VATSIM ATC and Pilot. Recent? VATSIM's been around for over ten years. I stopped because I did not have the time to continue.

Interesting... I didn't know VATSIM had been around that long. I fly occasionally in the FSEconomy virtual airline game, where players can fly assignments for virtual cash to upgrade planes, set up FBO's and join groups to coordinate jobs. But you never see another player, just what you'd normally see in FS or X-Plane. People who only know MMO's probably can't understand how that could be fun, but it provides motivation to fly into interesting places, and there is some social interaction on the forum.

Add insult to injury, there are people who then suggest that Open should pay more or get better benefits...

Right, they can't see how that looks from the other side.

 

[GerminVermin]

Please stay on the topic before you give me abuse...

I play on both solo and open and I thought I would just say how easy they both are.

I have spend 20 minutes on open play doing one kill mission, and I did a kill mission on solo as well just before.

These were the clear differences.

Solo highest bounty 15 k lowest 1.5 k. Ships killed 7. Money made, about 100 k

Open highest bounty 45 k lowest 2.5 k. Ships killed 15. Money made about 350 k

Now I will point out that both of these missions were in the same system, and I was at the same place for both, which was sitting at the jump point at which I entered they system.

With the clear difference in cash, and that I only saw 4 human players all day, I think this whole thing about which is the best place to be whilst playing is clear.

In my honest opinion if you want death and glory, play open. But if you want slow and hard work play Solo. There is a clear difference in money values and the rate USS appear. In open they seemed to be there all the time, sometimes 2 or 3 at a time, where as in Solo I had to wait up to 2 minutes for one to appear.

I wouldn't knock anybody playing Solo because you have to work for your cash, where as in open you have to work at not being killed by other human players.

This is just what I think, and playing open makes me richer.

Fascinating data.

I would love to see your data set from playing in a Resource Collection Site in the solo/open modes for the same period of time (say, 30 or 60 minutes or something), collecting the same data (and more).

How many of what ship chassis? What were their difficulty ratings?

 

[smsKONG]

Yes this. If its not something they are considering why make an official topic to discuss it? If its just to keep the forum tidy then thats great, but at least tell us that. If it is because changes are being considered by development then that makes it of great import. I would just like to know one way or the other if its just a corner to keep the mess from spreading or if its something being seriously considered and thats why theres an offical moderator sanctioned topic about it.

From reading Yaffles post I would say it's to make the moderators jobs easier - there is at least 1 new thread about this (and several other subjects!) every single day...
I think it's a massive effort to trawl all these threads and keep them civil.

This way the discussion can be controlled properly.

It doesn't mean the same subject is being considered by the devs or they'd have opened up a feedback/discussion thread themselves on the matter.
That's my take on it - which is why I haven't been along to collect an infraction over the subject

 

[AndyWeller]

That is really not necessary nor would it be particularly accurate Im sure. Its fairly well known that the pvp community is far more likely to be active forum warriors, while those that prefer to play alone are also much less likely to engage with others on forums. You can be sure that Frontier has exact data on who is playing in which group and how much, and thats all that really matters.

I see more people defending solo play on these forums than open. it's probably because the open guys have come to the conclusion "what is the point, i'm just going to get shot down and flamed for even suggesting / talking about better options for open play" I also believe that because FD didn't provide the off line mode that some of the solo guys wanted, neigh, demanded and didn't get that are still smarting from it and are overly defensive / aggressive about holding onto what they did get. they are in other words scared of change.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

+1
I suspect this is just a pressure release valve, because the game design hasn't changed at all since last Summer, and no FDEV has ever hinted that it would change. Imagine the reaction of the Kickstarter backers who made the game possible in the first place, if the core design concept changed post-release.

The "squeaky wheels" will continue to post, but at this point it's like going over to a World of Warcraft forum and demanding they shut down all the PvE servers.

Still, it would be nice to get some FDEV feedback. By remaining silent, it suggests they're just trying to sell more copies of the game to people who are hoping it might change. All they'd have to do is make one brief post in the forum, stating their intentions to keep the current design or leaving open the possibility of change. One post would do it.

they have been remarkably quiet of late haven't they. hopefully for good reasons but I have my doubts.

 

[Vandaahl]

Well, I've met someone roughly 4000 LY from Sol. In a system with three black holes
People are not lazy, but exploration is not that popular. You won't become rich doing it. You can earn money a lot faster with trading or even bounty hunting.

That was me I had to pick up my jaw from the floor when I saw another human that far from home. Have you made it back home in one peace, or are you still out there?

 

[Valan]

I play solo or group at the moment as I'm 'training'. I love PvP and I'll get around to it but what I hate is people actually want to be your friend or speak to you.

When playing EVE I rescued a noob from 3 enemy players. The thank you was fine but he wanted to follow me around after that so I ended up nuking him anyway.

Pitting wits against a human us fine but I have a limited desire to communicate.

 

[Sigon]

I see more people defending solo play on these forums than open. it's probably because the open guys have come to the conclusion "what is the point, i'm just going to get shot down and flamed for even suggesting / talking about better options for open play" I also believe that because FD didn't provide the off line mode that some of the solo guys wanted, neigh, demanded and didn't get that are still smarting from it and are overly defensive / aggressive about holding onto what they did get. they are in other words scared of change.

It could be that open players gave up, or it could be that there are more people who enjoy solo than open. No way to know, so we can only speculate, but I'd prefer to stick to facts.

Also, could you please clarify why players who enjoy solo are 'scared' of change? As a KS backer myself, and having played the original Elite to pieces (even managed to reach Elite), a backer of SC (and having played almost all WC games), having spend way to much time on MUDs and MUSHes, I can tell you a single player game can be quite enjoyable, as can multiplayer games. I've been playing Elite solo and with a friend, both in open and pve group and had a lot of fun in all these modes.
Yet somehow your statements indicate I am scared of something and I am curious how you come to this conclusion. As indicated, I have been enjoying the game. How was that somehow wrong?

 

[Dabba]

I also believe that because FD didn't provide the off line mode that some of the solo guys wanted, neigh, demanded and didn't get that are still smarting from it and are overly defensive / aggressive about holding onto what they did get. they are in other words scared of change.

What I'm scared of is getting caught in a bait and switch scam where I paid for something I like and it gets changed to something I don't.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

All of this thread is based on personal opinion, mine which is governed by my in game experience suggests the NCP's offer far greater risk to the average commander out there. I've been playing since May 2014, I have made 2 insurance claims (1 in beta and 1 since release). I have NEVER been interdicted by a human player and I do the usual lave / diso / leesti rares run at least 4-5 times a week.

Every single credit 1.6m worth that I have lost has been at the hands of NCP (T9 rammed in beta + Elite anaconda 1 shot drives in release).

With the exception of 1 week in September when a beta build was a stutterfest I have never played in solo, since 1.04 I am surrounded by OOOMANS.

As solo has more NCP's than open, the above suggests that is in fact us open players who are hiding in the low risk game. My facts are indisputable, they may differ from your own game experience but thats elite, the point being it matters not where you are playing so long as its fun. If someone you cant see or interact with is somehow reducing your fun then sorry but the issue resides inside you, not the game.

Consider solo players as part of the background simulation (invisible but busy) and crack on with enjoying elite.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I see more people defending solo play on these forums than open. it's probably because the open guys have come to the conclusion "what is the point, i'm just going to get shot down and flamed for even suggesting / talking about better options for open play" I also believe that because FD didn't provide the off line mode that some of the solo guys wanted, neigh, demanded and didn't get that are still smarting from it and are overly defensive / aggressive about holding onto what they did get. they are in other words scared of change.

The freedom of choice offered by the three game modes and the ability to switch between them on a session by session basis is the status quo. Periodically (even frequently) there are new players who arrive in the forums, possibly expecting the game to still be in a fluid state as to it's design, who don't like these freedoms for one reason or another. This has been happening for a long time now - and Frontier have changed precisely nothing about either the three modes or the ability to group switch. Now that the game has released, I would not expect these features to change - especially as, as you say, solo-online is the only remaining solo mode from the stated game design and to remove it now would have repercussions among those players dissatisfied already with the removal of solo-offline but not to the extent of demanding refunds.

they have been remarkably quiet of late haven't they. hopefully for good reasons but I have my doubts.

Hopefully they're going at full speed ahead with the wings mechanic, new ships and other features which exist in the DDA but not yet in the game.

 

[Undisputed]

While I agree that it's awesome to give player choise on how to play, sadly players aren't mature enough and they abuse the system.


From:
- going to solo when they are interdicted;
- going solo when entering/exiting stations full of players;
- making the fortune on the risk-free environment of solo, then coming to online.

While the last one is a bit tochy, since they won't have the skill to take on real players, they do have the entire fortune to waste.


Freedom always comes with a price, and I would hate to see either side hurt.

Perhaps add a fee to every switch, a % of the player account?

Or tokens that replenish every 48h or more, you switch, you need to wait 48h to switch again.

I really don't know, we could also have locked accounts. But at this time it would annoy a lot of people xp

again same nice skilled person,

as i said in other post, i want to trade, i accept pirates but in anarchy, i went off open because rage players kills without punishment,

8000cr is nothing compering to cost of insurance of lost ship, plus cargo,

and why do we have to have skill to take real frustrates ? U expect t6 to fight python ?

if you get same scale fine, plus wanted status for a week for innnocent kill, then u can put your skill into black hole, and sit in anarchy for another billion of years

i bought a game with 3 modes, so that cant be changed, or a lot of players will leave this game

 

[Jockey79]

.. options for open play.... *snip*

they are in other words scared of change.

First, everyone will support better options in the game - but not if they are locked to one group of players or one mode of play (as you suggested in your thread).
Second, no one is "scared" of anything and to suggest otherwise is insulting. People backed and bought this game for personal reasons, to have the core game changed because a few decided they don't like it, even though EVERYONE knows the core game design - is ridiculous. It is as advertised, you cannot moan the sea is wet AFTER you jump in it.

 

[Sigon]

again same nice skilled person,

as i said in other post, i want to trade, i accept pirates but in anarchy, i went off open because rage players kills without punishment,

8000cr is nothing compering to cost of insurance of lost ship, plus cargo,

and why do we have to have skill to take real frustrates ? U expect t6 to fight python ?

if you get same scale fine, plus wanted status for a week for innnocent kill, then u can put your skill into black hole, and sit in anarchy for another billion of years

i bought a game with 3 modes, so that cant be changed, or a lot of players will leave this game

Not expecting this to change, but wouldn't t be nice if the insurance company were to put a bounty on a killer's head equal to 10% of the insurance cost? After all, the company is out of money because of what happened, and might want to hire a bounty hunter.