Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Robert Maynard]

The ideal solution - if the current design focus is to be maintained as far as possible - would be a session by session choice. But, as admirable as innovation is, I would repeat that simplicity is sometimes the best approach. As much as I appreciate the sentiment behind the current focus, the problem of squaring the circle remains, so maybe a locked choice would be best. That said, one should always be free to change one's mind. I dunno. I'm both an 84er and an EVE bittervet, I came to ED hoping that it would be (1) true to the original and (2) the game that EVE tries to be. An interesting viewpoint I read in another thread was by a poster who summarised the varying perceptions of what ED should be on a 3-point scale:

(1) Let's all hold hands!
(2) Sensible
(3) EVE Online

The poster concerned said he rated about 2.4 on the scale. I would be approximately that myself. I agree with the current focus that players should be free to play the way they want, I'm just not convinced that the status quo can square the circle. Let the squares be squares, and the circles be circles. Hopefully, that flexibility would attract players of all kinds and therefore allow the game to prosper and grow o7

Excellent, you're stated ideal solution is what we already have.

As to expectations of growth - and squaring circles (or not) - the session by session play mode selection allows each of us to decide to play as a square or a circle (in your terms) as we see fit. Hopefully new players will accept that this is the way the game has been consciously designed and enjoy it.

 

[Halp]

This is what I feel it all boils down to. But solo players do not exist to fulfil some PvP fantasy for others and suggestions of incentivizing mode switching is quite frankly insulting to solo players. We are not your unwilling PvP cattle to be incentivized/coerced into joining your PvP dream.

i find this post disgusting and insulting.
i wonder why was OFFLINE mode negated. i would just LOVE to NOT see some people in open. but yeah, i'm just 1 person. this is pretty f. bad.
PS: i also have connection problems and sometimes i can't go open. so yeah, why why.

 

[tagos]

It may still suck, but the fact you still have meaningful methods of escape or might instead meet with a pirate wanting to engage in gunboat diplomacy makes the experience more interesting overall. You also mentioned unwanted PvP in Lave. I have to admit, the guys in freagles with dumbfire missiles pose a challenge to anyone, but even they were not impossible to evade in a trading vessel and ultimately players always have the option to avoid such areas until those involved move on or instead simply go to Private group in the short term.

Quite. I play mostly in Open even though I'm playing as a peaceful, mind my own business trader. Why in Open? Because the potential threat of other players obliges me to engage more with the game as I play. I have to watch what others are doing. I have to be equipped to deal with trouble. For me it's just more immersive. And yes, I sometimes include Lave in my trade run routes. I just assess the risk when I get there. It's not my right to fly everywhere unmolested so if I don't fancy my chances I'll just go elsewhere.

Like i've said previously - people should play in whatever mode they like. I'll switch to Solo sometimes if I'm not feeling like concentrating much. But really, Open Play just isn't anywhere near as red in tooth and claw as people imagine. I've been interdicted successfully by another player just once since from before the game started, fought him off and continued on my way.

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

1. A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

At no point does the definition of MMO state you have to be social or interact with others either.

So by intent or by definition - nothing about ED has ever lead anyone to believe we will be forced in to another players gun sights.

Thats right Jockey, thanks for enlightening me. I forgot, no one plays MMO's to interact with others, thats just a myth.

 

[spiralarchitect]

Excellent, you're stated ideal solution is what we already have.

As to expectations of growth - and squaring circles (or not) - the session by session play mode selection allows each of us to decide to play as a square or a circle (in your terms) as we see fit. Hopefully new players will accept that this is the way the game has been consciously designed and enjoy it.

Hmmm I hadn't thought of it that way. So we're agreed! Let's just hope the next trader I blow up after he refuses to jettison his cargo doesn't accuse me of griefing and demand that Open becomes a ponies in space simulator =D

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

Welcome to the revolution. This is the future of choice based online multiplayer gaming. Benefits everyone except the people that are out to ruin other peoples day, and leaves them sad and alone where they belong. Its about time someone came up with the solution.

Also where again is this unfair advantage when everybody can do it? Not seeing it.

No mate, this is ED. There is no revolution, just a half decent game that is trying to do it differently then other persistent online games. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

The problem with this topic within the game is symptomatic of what is wrong with society these days. Too much time trying to be overly 'PC' and cater to everyone possible rather than just telling some people "go elsewhere for what you seek".

 

[Zak Gordon]

Just wanted to say thank you for making this thread and hoovering up all the redundant repeat threads on this subject, good job Frontier Mods

 

[Beetlebum]

Thats right Jockey, thanks for enlightening me. I forgot, no one plays MMO's to interact with others, thats just a myth.

That made me laugh hard! Thank you, +1 rep.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The problem with this topic within the game is symptomatic of what is wrong with society these days. Too much time trying to be overly 'PC' and cater to everyone possible rather than just telling some people "go elsewhere for what you seek".

It sort of does tell some people to "go elsewhere for what you seek" by offering players freedom of choice as to how to play rather than forcing all players into the same mode - players that want / need to be, and know that others are, constrained to a single play mode to gain enjoyment from the game are not catered for.

 

[Halp]

It sort of does tell some people to "go elsewhere for what you seek" by offering players freedom of choice as to how to play rather than forcing all players into the same mode - players that want / need to be, and know that others are, constrained to a single play mode to gain enjoyment from the game are not catered for.

i think he was replying to that comment about ''those who will be left sad and alone where they belong''. i don't think E. D is the ONLY game playable out there, so yeah catering has a point

E: if your aim was to just stay on topic, give a simple warning. i STRONGLY doubt anyone will ignore it

 

[Dave1235]

I haven't talked about the matchmaking system. I think you absolutely missed my point. The system can stay as it is. No problem with it at all.

If what you're hoping for is a brand new server where you set the rules, you could contact them privately and negotiate it, but I hope you have a giant pile of money.

Now where is that Dev quote, the one stating they are making the game they want to make & play, and if you don't like it you are free to go and make your own game?

I guess FD beating the kickstater amount to make the game, would suggest that plenty of people liked their vision too.

Have I got my rose tinted glasses on?, I really don't remember this being an issue (not that it really is much of an issue now, as it seems to only bother a few people who didn't do any research before buying, and whose fault is that ?) in PB or beta.

Back in Beta Freeport was the place for PVP, pick a system, post it, meet there and fight to your hearts content (or form a PVP only group), obviously there are more than half a dozen systems now so unfortunately your chosen system (or PVP group) will not be full of those hardcore fights with haulers and lakons that the small but vocal group requesting the changes seem to desire.

 

[Haileene]

Hi all,
First of, sorry for my english, not a native english speaker. I've read quite a good part of all sayings here (not all I admit as many points are either too often mentioned or doesn't bring anything new to debate.)
I admit playing only open because, for one the choice is given, my playstyle beeing totally non agressive seems to meet what I expect from the game doing so.
Please understand that I grind hard (as many others out there) trying to be a trader of common goods, and never have I touched a rare. I also like the *always go to an other place* yet, once I found a trade route that is nice, but I'm looking for a very specific place in my mind wher I could get good mining, along with some possible to colonize system nearby (for when it's implemented in game) and good trade spot... so that kind of set up is not... that easy to find. So yeah I play solo, but it does not mean I make it easy on me.

What strikes me, is that I see some guys defining piracy the way I could appreciate it in game, and that would not bother me that much to see them in open (admitting I go open, I'd drop a cargo for them, but I bet not doing rares they might be very frustrated... or wait not doing rares ? what chances are to see a pirate anyway ???)
But most (I have said most, not all....) crying guys I have seen yet for calling open play only, seems to only want one thing in the game, which is firing at people. Have you ever seen one considering that he would be willing to fighting for that particular system faction ?

Most of the solo traders players seems to only grind Cr.

What strikes me into those discussions for Open Vs Solo, is never on what would be the game be IF :

Pirating and open fire on other players in any non anarchy system would lead in players death by ships authorities, without ship insurance help ?
Well I guess, they would then chase only in Anarchy system...

And then we could finally all play the same game which is manipulate the systems governement/allegiance.
You want to be a pirate ??? fine to be allowed to shoot someone, you would then need to be in anarchy system... then you would maybe need to work your tail off to set the system on the route you want to pirate an anarchy system... then you would need to play the game, meaning you would need to mission...

Want to be a trader trading rares ??? well guess what, your route may be very well compromised by anarchy systems... to have a safe route you would need to work your tail off and mission to get that comfort... you would then play the game not only grinding Cr

And on final note... have the AI beeing way more agressive on anarchy systems, so even playing solo, going through those systems might be a thrill... because for now... you just fly into those at the same exact same peace as in non anarchy systems...

If only that safety would be guaranteed in non anarchy systems, I would bet many players would be more willing to play open.

Also, on the other hand, If I had a second Cmdr slot, I would use it to play open only as well, and doing it a role play theme where I would grind doing biowaste tradings for a start... so beeing cargo scanned aonly to find out that I have biowaste would be quite a lough...

So on my point of view of the game modes it allows me to play it the way I like, and I'm fine with it, but I admit a little love could be done so open would be far more popular... it's not really balancing that would change that, but the rules in systems that would be the most intriguing and wonderful playground that this game could offer. Cause for now, many see missions as a non Cr profit, so missions are not very popular (or at least it's how I percieve them), but missions is what is meant to change the background of the game. The rare good Cr grinders get probably a way too easy life as traders for now I guess beeing doing that in solo, and the ones wanting to do piracy will likely see less and less juicy preys as it advances...

What is to blame is not the game mode, but the lack of trading risks in solo... making it a for now that milking the rares trade route a too strong appealing to solo haulers. Make it harder to go through the anarchy sys. and then milking those routes will not be that easy anymore, beeing open or solo.

My 2 cents and sorry for long post

 

[Dave1235]

Trying to figure out how they are going to engage in this discussion without petty insults and pejoratives I suspect. Could be a while.

Rofl, many a true word spoken in jest.

Glad I refused the coffee I was offered a few minutes back, I would have decorated my PC with it.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

I so miss these type of people i can interact with in open mode

You need to sharpen your aim, my friend.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Moderator Yaffle closed the other thread as duplicate but the other one was a poll. So he either need to make this one a poll as well or it's no duplicate. :S

It stopped being a poll and was continuing a separate discussion on the same topic. I can see two forum rules broken at once there.

 

[Uueerdo]

The problem with this topic within the game is symptomatic of what is wrong with society these days. Too much time trying to be overly 'PC' and cater to everyone possible rather than just telling some people "go elsewhere for what you seek".

Well, we'd have to disagree here, because I believe what is wrong with society today is also the compulsive need to turn everything into some sort of competition. Don't get me wrong; I don't think everyone should get a medal for a race, but everything doesn't have to be a "mine's bigger" contest. I seriously wonder about the sense of self worth people with such mentalities have with their need to constantly prove themselves better (or, more often, some random stranger "worse").

 

[Sigon]

Well, we'd have to disagree here, because I believe what is wrong with society today is also the compulsive need to turn everything into some sort of competition. Don't get me wrong; I don't think everyone should get a medal for a race, but everything doesn't have to be a "mine's bigger" contest. I seriously wonder about the sense of self worth people with such mentalities have with their need to constantly prove themselves better (or, more often, some random stranger "worse").

"We buy stuff we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like"

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

Well, we'd have to disagree here, because I believe what is wrong with society today is also the compulsive need to turn everything into some sort of competition. Don't get me wrong; I don't think everyone should get a medal for a race, but everything doesn't have to be a "mine's bigger" contest. I seriously wonder about the sense of self worth people with such mentalities have with their need to constantly prove themselves better (or, more often, some random stranger "worse").

While i agree with what you say in a multiplayer gaming environment im not sure its such a large problem in actual society. However to answer your question, probably quite low values of self worth, or then again they might just like showing off. In all honesty i think that's why so many people want the bigger ships, not because they value their use, but because they can then flash it around the forums like a badge and make forum thread classics such as "So i got my python already, what builds are people using? "

Possibly also an actual reason some prefer solo, as they can then be unmolested by mythical boogeymen in their race to super stardom at the helm of a python or even anaconda.

 

[Dave1235]

If one group is discriminated, it is just reasonable to help it, I think. More love to the competetive hardcore gamers, dear devs, please!

Does the ironman mode involve permadeath? Because I wouldn't like that.

Hardcore!, but not too hardcore then?

So you don't want to lose everything, but its OK for a trader to lose a full load of cargo (which could be almost everything, depending on how they play, something no one else will ever know).

You don't want to grind for a couple of days to get your ship back if you lose everything, but its OK for a trader to lose days of progress?

 

[Asp Explorer]

After many decades of experience, I've found that any player describing themselves as "hardcore" in any capacity whatsoever, is usually absolutely anything but.

 

[Jockey79]

Thats right Jockey, thanks for enlightening me. I forgot, no one plays MMO's to interact with others, thats just a myth.

Be as flippant as you like, does not change the simple fact that this game was designed around the individuals choice of freedom to play solo / private or open modes and swap whenever they like.
You cannot force people to "interact" with anyone, especially by misrepresenting what an MMO is or by placing restrictions on solo / private players.

Lets face it, until some people learn to play nice with others, they will have to go play with themselves.