FD's vision for ED

Rennard

R
I have a question for David, Sandro and/or Michael.
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First a bit of a disclaimer;
I love ED. I cannot put it down and whilst I have my issues with it like a lot of other people I am very happy with it on the whole and look forward to seeing it develop and blossom.
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Now a bit of background;
I joined ED in PremBeta and played/tested on and off throughout gamma. I've been playing way too many hours since release :)
I've worked my way up through the ships and have settled on the Clipper (Empire rank is now Lord but I got it at Knight) as my favourite ship and i'm working on kitting out the best components. Damn its an expensive ship to upgrade :D
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Whilst working my way up the financial ladder i've dabbled in all of the various roles and found of course (as many have) that Trading is by far the big money maker. I feel i've done enough of it now and just want to settle into my preferred play style.
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I could use a different ship to make my life easier, I could change the configuration to make it more suitable but this is what I have chosen and it fits my play style and desires.
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My preferred play style is that of Bounty Hunter / Imperial Protector. I often cruise around the Resource Sites protecting the Miners from "scumbag" pirates. Getting a bounty payment for it is obviously good incentive too. Whenever possible I go for the biggest ships, i'm not one for taking the biggst gun to the smallest fight to feel good. I choose the Clipper because I like the ship. If I just wanted a big gun I would get a Python.
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The problem that I have is that this kind of play style just doesn't support the ship costs. If I take damage or if I screw up and hit boost in a station like I have done once or twice :( (i really need to put a saftey cover over that button) then i find that I have to reconfigure my ship for Trading and head out for several hours just to recoup my losses. If I get into PVP then I have to weigh up the fun factor vs the amount of Trading i will have to do if I lose.
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My insurance cost right now is Cr2.1Million. I was lucky enough to get a run on Anaconda Pirates recently in a Resource Site and this was netting me Bounties around Cr50k to 100k but even at this rate just covering the cost of combat damage, the odd accident or a pvp beat down just isn't feasible. So Trading for a few hours every time I incur losses is really the only option to maintain my preferred play style.
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The question:
With the greatest of respect, is this the Vision for ED that you imagined? Is this how you expect it to be played?
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I would love to have the choice to Trade, not be forced to do it just to make ends meet. My feelings are that whilst most of the roles are supportable in the low tier ships, once you progress into the big league (which for me was my goal) then only Trading is a valid means of sustaining ones finances.
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Sorry for the essay but I wanted to make sure that my thoughts and feelings were explained properly and this isn't perceived as just another moan. I really love this game but I believe it was intended to be played how we choose, not to filter us down the only viable route.
 

ollobrains

Banned
O
Large scale trading is what will help us to develop the fringe systems into bigger pop centers and drive the expansion of colonies. My guess is the bigger combat ships wll come, but combat is something that is in need of a good balance and nothing to iwin. There are room for mining barges wtih mining bonuses ala eve online. Um exploration ships perhaps. Then there are assastination missions that might get their own type of combat ships.

Passanger ships to move large amounts of population for settlement, passanger missions. Trading allows peeps to have a few elite cobras spread around the place. I dunno id like to see more elements introduced into the game, landing ships for planets are one possibliity. eve online gives the idea of archology and the like. Then of course the alien menance of the thallogios ( probably spelt wrong) special ships to take them out
 

Rennard

R
ollobrains said:
Large scale trading is what will help us to develop the fringe systems into bigger pop centers and drive the expansion of colonies. My guess is the bigger combat ships wll come, but combat is something that is in need of a good balance and nothing to iwin. There are room for mining barges wtih mining bonuses ala eve online. Um exploration ships perhaps. Then there are assastination missions that might get their own type of combat ships.

Passanger ships to move large amounts of population for settlement, passanger missions. Trading allows peeps to have a few elite cobras spread around the place. I dunno id like to see more elements introduced into the game, landing ships for planets are one possibliity. eve online gives the idea of archology and the like. Then of course the alien menance of the thallogios ( probably spelt wrong) special ships to take them out
Click to expand...
I think my main point here is that trading is the only viable method to support larger ships right now and I believe the vision for ED is to allow us to follow the playstyle of our choice and not have to trade as the only valid option.
 

Belsameth

Belsameth
+rep.

I agree. Trading is the only really viable way to keep up with just the running cost which is a shame (as much as I like trading)
 

uncle bulgaria

uncle bulgaria
If you're bounty hunting NPCs you don't really need anything bigger than a Viper which is actually quite an affordable way to do it so it works as a profession in terms of being profitable. With practice you can take down any NPC ship, ok an Anaconda that is well armed is tough but certainly beatable. Granted a Viper in a combat load out is a compromised ship for anything else but that's what the multi ship aspect is for, currently I'm after an Asp as an all rounder so I bounty hunt in my Viper for fun/low credits/hour (i can probably collect 200k an hour excluding actual collection - i'm miles from the Empire which is a considerable inconvenience) and trade in a Type 6 for short stints for high credits/hour and balance my game that way.

Principle problem with the game in terms of making money is nothing beats trading once you have a Cobra or something bigger.

I'm hoping the upcoming missions expansion will make missions more rewarding in terms of immersion and fun as well as earnings.
 

Moriarte

Moriarte
The problem is the gap between an ASP and the Clipper. I think your problems will dissolve once this gets filled. Clipper isn't supposed to be a fighter. It's a transport/passenger vessel with very good defe ses.
 

Jason S

J
I had a feeling there would be issues when ships with hundreds of tons of cargo capacity became available.

It has basically in CR terms put trading as the main bread winner and they had to make ships more expensive because of that and then other ways of making money are small relatively.

They cannot just take away the big haulers now. Perhaps they could make the other professions scale up better though...
 

Mohrgan

Mohrgan
I believe the answer is to do many things, not just one. It's like a guy who wants to race, but doesn't win enough to pay his way. He has to have a day job to support his racing. It's not reasonable to insist that all paths/roles earn the same amount. Trading is imbalanced, not because of the game, but because of the 3rd party tools you can use to calculate profits. Without those, Trading would be vastly harder.
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I am running as a Smuggler right now. Trading taught me enough of how to play, and then bored me to death. Credits are enough of a draw to suffer that tedium. But many people thrive on it. I dabble in what ever opportunity presents itself. Missions, Bounties, and Salvaging, I am not flying anything better than a Cobra, but my playtime is filled with fun, and I can pay my way. Diversify or starve. (that was harsh, but all in good fun).
 

BazGibb

B
I love this game because it harks back to when games required you to use your imagination. I know we all have different opinions on what can be done to improve it (outside of planetary landings/walking around your ship etc). I've got a couple of suggestions which I would love to see:

When you are promoted in rank you are told you have been promoted. You don't know you have unless you check. Small thing but it makes you feel more "appreciated".

When you are using the station computers/communication etc you see avatars as opposed to just names/factions. This adds a more personal feel to the game.

The introduction of aliens. I want to fly and discover systems populated by aliens, with alien stations and alien ships. I want to be able to purchase an Universal translator to communicate with those aliens and to decide if I want to trade or fight with them. I know Elite tries to stick with realism, but a galaxy of 400 billion stars and many many more hundreds of billions more planets, there is no way we are alone in the universe. I'm not an expert but how hard would it be to create randomly generated ships using stock parts within constraints? Could be a possibility!
 

CMDR Sheehy

CMDR Sheehy
There are new ships on the horizon (I say that because of the Fer-De-Lance preview) and the promise that soon we would have 30 playable ships (Did I misunderstand that?) and so maybe the problems we are seeing will disappear in time?
 

Soulkiller

S
uncle bulgaria said:
If you're bounty hunting NPCs you don't really need anything bigger than a Viper which is actually quite an affordable way to do it so it works as a profession in terms of being profitable.
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I understand this mate but I am with OP on this matter. Let me explain: I would like to progress into a Python and MELT those ships. I worked all my way to a fully fitted ASP doing bounties/Assasination missions from a Viper. Never ever traded before. Now I decided that I would like to try the Python. So I sold my ASP to trade in a Type-7 which seems to be the only way achieving this goal as I do now want to bounty hunt for the next 10 years non-stop before I can buy my fitted weak D-Rated Python I envisioned myself.
 

Rennard

R
Moriarte said:
The problem is the gap between an ASP and the Clipper. I think your problems will dissolve once this gets filled. Clipper isn't supposed to be a fighter. It's a transport/passenger vessel with very good defe ses.
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Whilst I respect your right to your own opinion, I have to say I totally disagree. The Clipper has the capabilities for a Class 7 Shield, 2 x Large Weapon Mounts and 2 x Medium Weapon Mounts. This screams "destroy stuff!". Besides, if you go to a conflict zone you will see AI Clippers all the time.
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The question I am asking is whether FD plan for anyone progressing to ships larger than viper/cobra to be able to sustain those ships with anything except trading.
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Also to the point about Trade requiring "out of game" tools. I don't use these, I find my own trade routes and right now have one that can net me 3.77Million per hour in the Clipper with 240 Cargo. My issue is I would rather be exploring/fighting/bounty hunting than trading in order to maintain my ship and credit balance.
 

Cathalo

C
FD's vision seems to be anti PvP. They allow people to switch between Open and Solo mode without changing CMDR's, which invalidates any risk vs reward mechanics to playing in open mode. Then they allow people who willingly play Open mode to disconnect from the game by simply turning their computer off so they can avoid getting blown up.

FD just needs to get rid of Open mode, it has been a colossal failure so far. I have invited 4 friends to play this game and they all quit already because none of us could find each other in open play. They all wasted 60 bucks on this game and are hating on me now.
 
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Snakebite

Banned
Snakebite
Rennard said:
I have a question for David, Sandro and/or Michael.

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I would love to have the choice to Trade, not be forced to do it just to make ends meet. My feelings are that whilst most of the roles are supportable in the low tier ships, once you progress into the big league (which for me was my goal) then only Trading is a valid means of sustaining ones finances.
Click to expand...
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As much as I sympathize with the Op, I do feel that you are simply using the wrong ship for your chosen career. The clipper is a transport ship, albeit a fast and well defended one. If you drop down to an Asp or A cobra Mk II then you can make a living bounty hunting.

Having said that can someone at Frontier please explain why the Wanted status of pirates and murderers can so easily be wiped ? Not having any Targets is killing Bounty Hunting...
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
babelfisch said:
I don't know if there is a definitive answer to balancing.

Sure, credits from bounty hunting could be higher. But where would this take you? Everything you need for bounty hunting is a well fitted Viper (you need about 3-4 mil?). Everything above the Viper (except the Cobra) is not suited for bounty hunting due to repair costs. You can take out every NPC ship anyways. It takes 5 minutes for an elite Anaconda.

For me the trading is functioning very well, the hole point of trading is accumulating credits, finding good routes and having fun beeing a space trucker.
Bounty hunting (in my opinion...) is not about credits but about having fun blowing ships up and chasing fugitives. You don't need more money as you can't buy anything meaningful with it, you only need money to make your living. But you need more and better game mechanics to make bounty hunting more thrilling and interesting. Right now all you do is dropping out at nav points and waiting for npc's to fly in. It's like waiting for criminals at a motorway station, that's not serious bounty hunting.
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https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=99967&p=1550919&viewfull=1#post1550919
 

Rennard

R
Snakebite said:
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As much as I sympathize with the Op, I do feel that you are simply using the wrong ship for your chosen career. The clipper is a transport ship, albeit a fast and well defended one. If you drop down to an Asp or A cobra Mk II then you can make a living bounty hunting.

Having said that can someone at Frontier please explain why the Wanted status of pirates and murderers can so easily be wiped ? Not having any Targets is killing Bounty Hunting...
Click to expand...
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Again I have to disagree. I haven't ever seen a Lakon in a conflict zone but I see Clippers there all the time. It is a combat vessel as much as many other vocations.
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However this is besides the main point as this issue exists for the Python/Anaconda equally. What you are saying is that nothing above a Cobra/Asp is viable for any role except trading which goes back to my main question, is this how FD intended it? I suspect the answer is no.
 
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Tacheel

Tacheel
There was a quote from Michael a week or two ago, stating that larger ship upkeep and maintenance scaling was being looked at. Don't have time to dig it up right now tho.
 
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