Interdiction Dodgers

[NeilF]

Thanks as always Sandro for taking the time to post.

I don't suppose anything is being one to simply stop individuals close the ED executable when they are interdicted? ie: Spot they are repeatedly "dodging" at this point in the gane (durin ginterdictions) and do something?

Obviously a lot of people "dodge" even from NPCs too. Are you able to comment on how trustworthy NPCs are at pirating? ie: If you drop some cargo do they even pay attention (& do not then try and kill you)?

* Chaff is too powerful: Chaff launcher capacity is being reduced (and the munitions is being made more expensive). Like a few other modules that use resources, our initial numbers managed to get out of line with other module balancing passes.

This sounds much like shield generators where it actually makes sense to own two (or more) of them to simply have a continual supply of chaff/shield cells.

* Murder is not serious enough: This is an interesting one that has a couple of different strands to unpick. Firstly, we are looking to add in a future update a change that will cause any bounty claimed to become a special, non-expiring fine for the perpetrator. The idea is that when you commit a crime you are expected to pay at some point. Currently some game play flow options remove the bounty completing when you are killed, which is not what we want.

And the premise of a bounty on an individual for murder that cannot be cleared until X (gameplay hours) after the (last) murder?

So if someone commits murder they can't just scoot off to a station and pay a fine to remove the bounty, but instead need to live X hours in the game with the bounty before they can pay it off? Note: Time docked does not count

 

[Snake Man]

Sure, what we're aiming for is risky, but the concept of submitting just to escape straight away is simply not what we intended.

When you run Lakon Type-9 without shields, get interdicted and submit you usually can escape with 1-2% damage from AI ship firing at you. With default thrusters there is no way to evade interdiction.

How do you envision this to change when you redesign the interdiction?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Hello Commanders!

A few points to hopefully let you guys know what our feelings are currently on a few of the issues raised in this thread:

Thanks Sandro - enlightening....

Discussed elsewhere and related to interdictions but focussing on the "It's dead, Jim!" aspect of ships being marooned due to destroyed thrusters or having had sensors destroyed - has any consideration been given to certain critical ship's systems (i.e. those which would require the pilot to self-destruct in the event that they were destroyed) having a self-repair facility to recover the system to a level of functionality that would enable the ship to limp home? Such a procedure would not necessarily be quick, may need ammunition, etc..

Marooning is, at present, equivalent to murder as the targeted ship requires to self-destruct to be able to continue the game. If this is intended then maybe the bounty for destroying critical systems ought to be the same (or a large percentage of) the bounty for murder (especially as "murder" isn't given that we all have escape pods fitted! ).

 

[Morbad]

Thanks Sandro - enlightening....

Discussed elsewhere and related to interdictions but focussing on the "It's dead, Jim!" aspect of ships being marooned due to destroyed thrusters or having had sensors destroyed - has any consideration been given to certain critical ship's systems (i.e. those which would require the pilot to self-destruct in the event that they were destroyed) having a self-repair facility to recover the system to a level of functionality that would enable the ship to limp home? Such a procedure would not necessarily be quick, may need ammunition, etc..

Marooning is, at present, equivalent to murder as the targeted ship requires to self-destruct to be able to continue the game. If this is intended then maybe the bounty for destroying critical systems ought to be the same (or a large percentage of) the bounty for murder (especially as "murder" isn't given that we all have escape pods fitted! ).

It's been stated that, in the future, AFM units will be able to repair everything except for power plant, hull, windscreen, and themselves.

I don't think anything more than this is needed, or that systems should be able to repair themselves without an AFM unit.

 

[Vincent Starson]

Less people would combat log if they didn't care so much about losing their ship. Why do they care so much about losing their ship? Because it represents hours worth of time. And in the event you don't have enough to cover insurance, you could potentially lose weeks of progress due to another player.

A good way to reduce combat logging imo, would be to reduce the penalty of death. If someone lost a 4-5 million credit python / Type 9, that means an hour or two of trading to recover. An hour or two of trading is incredibly boring, and DEFINITELY on those commander's minds when as they combat log.

Solution 1 for the interdiction submission change, where you nerf submitting and escape, it would be okay if they can't fire while they hold you. If they can kill you while holding you after submission without any chance of escape, no more traders in open. This is bad for everyone.

Solution 2 where you are requested to drop out of SC is not wanted. That's just awful. I prefer being able to escape interdiction. If you're forced to stop doing in sc, else pay a fine just because random NPC123 came over to scan you, that sucks. Dropping out of sc and then ramping back up to sc is slow.

Please don't replace gameplay with tedium. Replace tedium with gameplay.

 

[Amaze]

I have had so many of these ghost interdiction's,
I would just like to know how to tell if its the ghost bug or a combat Logger?

 

[tagos]

I have had so many of these ghost interdiction's,
I would just like to know how to tell if its the ghost bug or a combat Logger?

My experience is exclusively submitting and finding nothing there in any scanner range. I always wonder if there's a player muttering about combat logging somewhere when all that happens is we've been dropped into different instances.

 

[Tigga]

Less people would combat log if they didn't care so much about losing their ship. Why do they care so much about losing their ship? Because it represents hours worth of time. And in the event you don't have enough to cover insurance, you could potentially lose weeks of progress due to another player.

A good way to reduce combat logging imo, would be to reduce the penalty of death. If someone lost a 4-5 million credit python / Type 9, that means an hour or two of trading to recover. An hour or two of trading is incredibly boring, and DEFINITELY on those commander's minds when as they combat log.

Solution 1 for the interdiction submission change, where you nerf submitting and escape, it would be okay if they can't fire while they hold you. If they can kill you while holding you after submission without any chance of escape, no more traders in open. This is bad for everyone.

Solution 2 where you are requested to drop out of SC is not wanted. That's just awful. I prefer being able to escape interdiction. If you're forced to stop doing in sc, else pay a fine just because random NPC123 came over to scan you, that sucks. Dropping out of sc and then ramping back up to sc is slow.

Please don't replace gameplay with tedium. Replace tedium with gameplay.

Nope. I think death should be penalised more. If you don't want to die, equip stuff so you don't die. If a human comes to steal your stuff, give him stuff and leg it. Many people chose death over dropping any cargo when I pirate, so I'd say death is clearly not punished enough.

Death in a big ship should certainly set you back more than an hour or two.

 

[elaverick]

Various options are in the "big list of cool stuff".

You can't call it the Big List of Cool Stuff... The acronym for that is B-LOCS.

 

[Morbad]

Chaff shakes off all gimballed weapons. You can wait and charge your power, then when you shoot, I chaff again. 2xChaff banks works fairly well. As Morbad said, it's not *that* hard to hit with fixed weapons.

Alternitavely, in smaller ships, I chaff as soon as you fire, while firing back. When it clears I boost away, and try to force it into a jousting match. If I can evade your fire by smart flying, even one bank of chaff is more than enough.

In any case, never had any problems with CMDRs using gimbals. It's the fixed ones/dumbfire missle/rail gun ones that I have to be careful with.

Relevant to this tangent:
[video=youtube;yD9jnw080fE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD9jnw080fE[/video]
This guy was interdicting and scanning people at random, so I was trolling him a bit, trying to cost him any bounties he did find.
Anyway, I opened fire too soon as he came back around. Had I waited until ~1.25km, his shields would have failed despite the second SCB, and I likely would have remained largely unscathed as long as he was relying on gimbals to do his aiming for him. Wisely, he left.

Less people would combat log if they didn't care so much about losing their ship. Why do they care so much about losing their ship? Because it represents hours worth of time.

I don't like losing my ship because it's embarrassing, especially when another CMDR takes it from me.

I can pay my insurance fee eighty times, and can make back the cost of that fee in 10-15 minutes, but losing a ship is a profound failure in my mind. It's far harsher than any hit to the pocketbook.
I'll happily jettison 50 tons of imperial slaves (costing me 700k) out of my Cobra just to watch them splatter across my windscreen, but I will fight as if my life depends on it to avoid losing my 110k rebuy cost Viper.

Still, I would never resort to cheating to avoid my fate.

 

[Marcns007]

If it takes time for frame shift to cool down from pulled out of SC, the traders require another counter measure.

When trading, I fly my type 6 with mines, chaff and shield cells, waiting to go back in to SC - 40 secs is a long time for someone to kill you for fun - it is pandering to the PVP's who want to kill.

The bounty system needs to work better for these MONSTERS, the crime should hang around their neck for a long time and they need to show up on the scanner.

Give the traders a chance otherwise solo looks the easy option.

 

[Jens]

My idea of a simple solution would be that anyone combat logging (logging off while in combat - having a red combatant) would be given a Bounty in the system he is in). No traders want that and I believe they are the worst at this.

Pirates would not care about this, but Bounty Hunters would hunt them some more.

Please notice I have been interdicted by pirates/murderes and when the victim (me) suddenly had the big upper hand, they ran. The point - all evasion of combat, FSD or logging should result in a Bounty.

 

[Tornado]

Aren't we all forgetting, its not Killing or Murder, at worst its property damage. The player does not die he loses his ship. If it was Killing or Murder not only would you lose the ship but all your rankings, cash and reputation. So perhaps the fines should be higher but the mechanism of being able to pay them and clear your name should remain the same. Just my 5 credits worth.

 

[Darian]

Nope. I think death should be penalised more. If you don't want to die, equip stuff so you don't die. If a human comes to steal your stuff, give him stuff and leg it. Many people chose death over dropping any cargo when I pirate, so I'd say death is clearly not punished enough.

Death in a big ship should certainly set you back more than an hour or two.

So you think there should be no more traders in open?

 

[Bikky]

Interesting comments.

I look forward to the next round of beta testing....

 

[General Specific]

Or... Invest in decent shields, thrusters & FSD, and learn to evade an interdiction.

I found it easy to evade almost all NPC interdictions in a Type 6, and I think only 1 CMDR managed to successfully interdict me in it (3 times withing 5 mins!) and I successfully ran away with only moderate damage and a hold full of rares.

Upgraded FSD helps you to evade the interdiction
Upgraded thrusters help you run away when interdicted.
Upgraded shields (+ shield cell bank, chaff launcher, point defence) help you survive long enough to run away.

PS. I bought an Asp, and I've upgraded it. Now I always submit to interdictions.

all modules at A4 in an Asp, doesnt help when a maxed out cobra with a cannon attacks you with no warning though!

I imagine if you keep submitting someone will kill you sooner or later. NPC's not a problem though.

 

[Vincent Starson]

Nope. I think death should be penalised more. If you don't want to die, equip stuff so you don't die. If a human comes to steal your stuff, give him stuff and leg it. Many people chose death over dropping any cargo when I pirate, so I'd say death is clearly not punished enough.

I myself fly with a top rated shield, shield cells, chaff, 2 point defense, ECM, and mines. Right now I feel invincible to any interdiction NPC or Player. I sacrifice profit per hour for safety. This is working as intended, I feel.

Death in a big ship should certainly set you back more than an hour or two.

An hour or two of solo play. Where you can't play with them. Thus, less players for you to play with. This negatively affects you. The thing is, even if you do kill a trader, all you end up accomplishing is sending them to solo. This isn't your fault, it's FD's fault for making Open / Solo not separate.

I understand the desire to "punish" players when they lose, but realize that you are punishing yourself too.

 

[tagos]

My idea of a simple solution would be that anyone combat logging (logging off while in combat - having a red combatant) would be given a Bounty in the system he is in). No traders want that and I believe they are the worst at this.

Pirates would not care about this, but Bounty Hunters would hunt them some more.

Please notice I have been interdicted by pirates/murderes and when the victim (me) suddenly had the big upper hand, they ran. The point - all evasion of combat, FSD or logging should result in a Bounty.

As has been endlessly explained, there is no way to tell the reason for a disconnect so therefore you can't punish people who MAY have disconnected or MAY have suffered a glitch.

 

[Galactic Midden]

Hello Commanders!

A few points to hopefully let you guys know what our feelings are currently on a few of the issues raised in this thread:

* Ghost interdiction: interdiction ending with no other vessels present - this sounds very much like a bug, so please ticket. In general, if an interdiction completes (either because of submission or the interdictor winning) then both ships should be pushed into the same space. I can't really think of any circumstance where this should not be the case.

I've heard/read that this has been noticed occurring more often when you are in supercruise with other human players. It's happened to me a few times when someone, i.e. an NPC interdicts me. I almost always submit to interdictions immediately and on several occasions I've dropped out of SC to find no other ship present. Without being able to say for certain I would say that I do find this happens when there are several other players visible in supercruise before the interdiction event occurred.

The hypothesis I've heard offered is that the reason the NPC doesn't appear with you is because authority for it is attached to another player's computer and the game hasn't managed to hand over authority for that NPC to you.

I have no idea if this is a likely cause, but perhaps the way I quickly submit to all interdictions is a contributing factor. The PC I have is more than capable and runs the game well with a Virgin Media 50Mb broadband cable connection. I hadn't ever thought of submitting a ticket for this, it seems such a minor issue at the time, but I'll try to report it and along with the time and netlog etc.

 

[General Specific]

back to solo when trading for me, shame a si was enjoying the challenge of docking at a busy one with all the hot doggers zooming around! if you get one with no shields who bounces off you, they tend to pop!