Flight Model Abuse? Opening cargo scoop lets you brake and perform instant 180.

5PIDER · Jan 26, 2015

In a fight I saw the enemy criminal commander constantly opening his scoop and turning around near-instantly to fire at me.

I can confirm this does work, and I don't think that's how it was intended unless we are allowed to use it like some kind of air-brake. Submitting ticket just in case.

DimGook · Jan 26, 2015

5PIDER said:
In a fight I saw the enemy criminal commander constantly opening his scoop and turning around near-instantly to fire at me.

I can confirm this does work, and I don't think that's how it was intended to be used. Submitting ticket just in case.

Awww snap, incoming hot discussion

Edit: alright seriously, this trick really undermines the maneuverability advantage of Vipers when fighting against Asps, Cobras and Pythons. Viper's extremely good acceleration and deceleration is now available to all those large ships, and they have superior turn rates at optimal speed.

To balance this I suggest making cargo scoop deployment disable shields like in FFE.

inb4 whiny Viper pilot

OneAmongOthers · Jan 26, 2015

Honestly I find it silly that in a zero G environment somehow opening your hatch slows you down. Where did the resistance come from?

Drunk Si · Jan 26, 2015

Cargo scoop is OP

salad · Jan 26, 2015

OneAmongOthers said:
Honestly I find it silly that in a zero G environment somehow opening your hatch slows you down. Where did the resistance come from?

Probably a safe speed lock, just like when you put the landing gear down.

edukainc · Jan 26, 2015

5PIDER said:
In a fight I saw the enemy criminal commander constantly opening his scoop and turning around near-instantly to fire at me.

I can confirm this does work, and I don't think that's how it was intended unless we are allowed to use it like some kind of air-brake. Submitting ticket just in case.

Working as intended..
It's just that no one knows what the intention is...

Katkon · Jan 26, 2015

5PIDER said:
In a fight I saw the enemy criminal commander constantly opening his scoop and turning around near-instantly to fire at me.

I can confirm this does work, and I don't think that's how it was intended unless we are allowed to use it like some kind of air-brake. Submitting ticket just in case.

I'm curious: can the same be achieved by lowering the landing gear? (I'm not near my PC currently, hence the question).

Midnight_Sun323 · Jan 26, 2015

Cargo scoop nerf.

DimGook · Jan 26, 2015

Katkon said:
I'm curious: can the same be achieved by lowering the landing gear? (I'm not near my PC currently, hence the question).

Not near my PC either, but IIRC, deploying landing gear decelerates your ship as if you just set a lower throttle in FA-ON.

CaptainKremmen · Jan 26, 2015

When the landing-gear and cargo-scoop "50% speed" change was first added (beta phase), it was able to slow you faster than any other method.

FD devs went on record saying this was absolutely NOT working correctly. It was supposed to do nothing more than you could do yourself with a setting of 50% throttle.

This was supposedly fixed in a subsequent revision. For the landing-gear, the change was in-your-face obvious. Literally. You'd have a control tower smashed into your face if you didn't moderate your insane docking approach speed (learned during the hilarious "landing gear air brake" phase, lol).

If either LG or CS deployment slows you "outside the normal flight envelope", it's a bug. If you have empirical evidence, like a video, upload it to YT and raise a ticket.

Morbad · Jan 26, 2015

Opening my scoop doesn't reduce speed any faster than setting throttle to any lower number, if FA is ON, on any ship I've tried it with, same with landing gear.

evilquesadilla · Jan 26, 2015

Morbad said:
Opening my scoop doesn't reduce speed any faster than setting throttle to any lower number, if FA is ON, on any ship I've tried it with, same with landing gear.

Dont have proof, but that's my understanding too. The cmdr maybe using scoop to save from having to map a button? I have a dedicated 50% throttle button. But by using the scoop, one button serves two purposes? Just guessing.

Guyperson · Jan 26, 2015

Katkon said:
I'm curious: can the same be achieved by lowering the landing gear? (I'm not near my PC currently, hence the question).

Landing gear have to completely deploy before your top speed gets reduced. The top speed reduction is instantaneous with the cargo scoop.

You still have to slow down to your new "max" speed either way, though. Once down to the new top speed, they retract the scoop and this changes the blue zone on the throttle, putting them right at the 50%.

From what I can tell it's just a lazy method of throttling back to 50%, without any benefit of being partially in the blue zone on the way there.

talshiarr · Jan 26, 2015

At least in the Asp with 4 pips in engines and the throttle in the blue I can flip around a lot faster just by using my vertical thrusters while I pull up. It's not a "bug" I'll need.

Mkkt Bkkt · Jan 26, 2015

Perhaps the enemy ship just boosted with FA off?

CaptainKremmen · Jan 26, 2015

Guyperson said:
Landing gear have to completely deploy before your top speed gets reduced. The top speed reduction is instantaneous with the cargo scoop.

You still have to slow down to your new "max" speed either way, though. Once down to the new top speed, they retract the scoop and this changes the blue zone on the throttle, putting them right at the 50%.

From what I can tell it's just a lazy method of throttling back to 50%, without any benefit of being partially in the blue zone on the way there.

Could well be. 50% throttle is the point at which your pitch rate is maximised. If you want to perform an FA Off 180-degree flip, I guess CS is as good a way of having a "50% throttle" button without needing a separate "50% throttle" control binding.

Off the top of my head, though, I can't recall if the CS limiter applies in FA Off or not. Will test when I'm flying...

Guyperson · Jan 26, 2015

CaptainKremmen said:
Off the top of my head, though, I can't recall if the CS limiter applies in FA Off or not. Will test when I'm flying...

It does. It behaves in the same manner as coming down from a boost.

Dukov Nook · Jan 26, 2015

5PIDER said:
In a fight I saw the enemy criminal commander constantly opening his scoop and turning around near-instantly to fire at me.

I can confirm this does work, and I don't think that's how it was intended unless we are allowed to use it like some kind of air-brake. Submitting ticket just in case.

I agree with you on this.

Deploying a scoop like this should result in structural damage.

sneakyfrog · Jan 26, 2015

Dukov Nook said:
I agree with you on this.

Deploying a scoop like this should result in structural damage.

Because it hits the vacuum of space and it isn't friends with it? Just wondering what kind of structural shear you think the absence of everything has...

Aerodynamics does not apply in space.

However.. totally agree, the scoop shouldn't slow you down in any way.

adoredtv · Jan 26, 2015

It's like some kind of "air brake" I think? Hard to tell what's going on but I seem to instantly jump to the blue zone from full speed. I'm not sure if it's actually conferring any advantage though. Doesn't seem to do anything a boost turn or FA-OFF turn doesn't do.