Please fix the Alt F4 exploit

[Cathalo]

Well, as I said, my opinion isn't worth much.

As it happens I spend almost all my time in Open, but I have not PvP'd much since Beta, haven't been attacked by a single player since gamma, had one pirate encounter that was settled to mutual satisfaction.

I will seek out PvP when the conflict zones get a bit more exciting, and likely join a PvP group to avoid cheaters.

But you are correct, I like PvP with rules and certainly understand the risk that players may cheat when in Open. So I don't seek out PvP in Open (except conflict zones), but I do support it as a valid choice for others if they don't mind the risk.

So, if everything you just said is true and you rarely every PvP in this game then the issue of combat logging does not effect you. Since we have gotten that out of the way, why are you posting in this thread?

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plug in your irony detector please

and yes i agree. people order very hot spicy dish and the complain its to spicey.^^

Not sure I understand, are you suggesting that the people who exploit the game are the ones who can't handle spicy or the folks who play the game by the rules?

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

So, if everything you just said is true and you rarely every PvP in this game then the issue of combat logging does not effect you. Since we have gotten that out of the way, why are you posting in this thread?

Well I guess as he plays the game and any proposals effect everyone within that game he has every right to pass comment on a "proposed" change, unless of course you are going to lobby FD to only allow any changes to the logging system to effect those that chose it to. If that is the case then carry on as you were.

Don't take this as me condoning disco'ing, its a blight that effects us all directly or indirectly and if it, at all can be stopped then it should be but please dont tell people they cant have an opinion on it, especially when its done in a sensible manner on the official forums!

 

[Cathalo]

Well I guess as he plays the game and any proposals effect everyone within that game he has every right to pass comment on a "proposed" change, unless of course you are going to lobby FD to only allow any changes to the logging system to effect those that chose it to. If that is the case then carry on as you were.

Don't take this as me condoning disco'ing, its a blight that effects us all directly or indirectly and if it, at all can be stopped then it should be but please dont tell people they cant have an opinion on it, especially when its done in a sensible manner on the official forums!

It's just a bit weird how so many people posting in this thread are not even PvPers, nor effected by this issue. If they have a bunch of spare time to kill and no personal life, maybe I can see why they posted in this thread. But, I can't make sense of it otherwise.

 

[Gunslinger]

The problem with any fix to the ol' logofski issue is that it effectively punishes people who are subject to random disconnects, crashes, or anything else.

Personally, I'm willing to put up with the annoyance of someone deliberately doing it to avoid me in order to avoid "innocent" players being penalised for things outside their control.

 

[Cathalo]

The problem with any fix to the ol' logofski issue is that it effectively punishes people who are subject to random disconnects, crashes, or anything else.

.

Is this your first online game? If so, then welcome to online gaming. If it isn't, then please list me some of the major titles that you have played where being disconnected while in combat (even through no fault of your own) was not punished by death. In EvE the costs for dying are just as high if not higher than they are in this game, yet if you break connection during combat you will die 99% of the time even if it is a random hardware failure. This is to keep people from exploiting the game to avoid death.

Atleast this game is forgiving though, atleast FD built in a solo and group mode for people who can't handle it. EvE is just one server, and everyone plays by the same cut throat rules.

 

[jgm]

The problem with any fix to the ol' logofski issue is that it effectively punishes people who are subject to random disconnects, crashes, or anything else.

It punishes people who are subject to random disconnects, crashes or anything else if they are actively in a fight in open play. This could be further restricted to "in a fight with another player" if FD so decide. How often has this happened to you, because for me it's happened never. This really isn't an argument.

 

[Rivka]

plug in your irony detector please

and yes i agree. people order very hot spicy dish and the complain its to spicey.^^

Speaking of spicy, I used to have the most awesome Szechuan place nearby. I love spicy food, and every time I'd go in, I tried to get them to make it spicier for me.

One day, I walked in, and said "Look, don't give me white person spicy, give me Szechuan spicy!" The cook came up front, asked me if I was suuure, then brought me a bowl of soup. Two bites, and I tapped out. First time in a LONG time eating spicy food, and you're talking to someone who munches jalapeno peppers as a snack.

According to the cook, he gave me what he considers a bland szechuan soup, best made for sick, old people, and toddlers.



Anyway, enough threadjack, back to ranting.

 

[Jukelo]

The problem with any fix to the ol' logofski issue is that it effectively punishes people who are subject to random disconnects, crashes, or anything else.

Personally, I'm willing to put up with the annoyance of someone deliberately doing it to avoid me in order to avoid "innocent" players being penalised for things outside their control.

It doesn't really have to consistently punish legit disconnects. It's obvious that everybody can have the occasional crash/disconnect at random, and people shouldn't be punished for that.
However, when you start to notice a pattern of some people regularly dropping in the middle of combat when things turn hairy for them, you can safely assume that genuine technical problem have little to do with it.
Any automated system can be made to be more or less strict by analyzing the context. It can obviously never be 100% error-proof, but as long as it's sufficiently accurate you can live with the very occasional collateral damage (as I said, how regularly does your comp/router crash in the middle of a fight when you're on the losing side?).

 

[Cathalo]

It punishes people who are subject to random disconnects, crashes or anything else if they are actively in a fight in open play. This could be further restricted to "in a fight with another player" if FD so decide. How often has this happened to you, because for me it's happened never. This really isn't an argument.

Exactly, I have logged about 100+ hours into this game so far and I have yet to lose connection or crash even one time, even while I'm not in combat. You are much more likely to have your ship destroyed while sitting on the stardock due to a bug or loitering than you are to have it destroyed in combat because of a disconnect. It's a non issue.

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Speaking of spicy, I used to have the most awesome Szechuan place nearby. I love spicy food, and every time I'd go in, I tried to get them to make it spicier for me.

One day, I walked in, and said "Look, don't give me white person spicy, give me Szechuan spicy!" The cook came up front, asked me if I was suuure, then brought me a bowl of soup. Two bites, and I tapped out. First time in a LONG time eating spicy food, and you're talking to someone who munches jalapeno peppers as a snack.

According to the cook, he gave me what he considers a bland szechuan soup, best made for sick, old people, and toddlers.



Anyway, enough threadjack, back to ranting.

We have a place here in Houston, Tx where I live called General Joes. If you ever come to town I recommend you visit the Galleria area and visit it. Order the Singapore Chicken and ask for extra spicy. It will blow your socks off.

 

[Rivka]

It doesn't really have to consistently punish legit disconnects. It's obvious that everybody can have the occasional crash/disconnect at random, and people shouldn't be punished for that.
However, when you start to notice a pattern of some people regularly dropping in the middle of combat when things turn hairy for them, you can safely assume that genuine technical problem have little to do with it.
Any automated system can be made to be more or less strict by analyzing the context. It can obviously never be 100% error-proof, but as long as it's sufficiently accurate you can live with the very occasional collateral damage (as I said, how regularly does your comp/router crash in the middle of a fight when you're on the losing side?).

That's why I'm a fan of something like 25-40% damage to all systems, if someone logs out/crashes/abnormal termination during a fight. For the honest innocent person, it may be a small annoyance, but not bank-breaking. For the people who make a habit of "combat logging", those repair bills are going to stack up fast.

That, of course, is dependant on Frontier being able to reliably determine a plug-pull/process kill.

 

[Flavourless]

Its just sour grapes. No one posting here knows under what mechanism their target disappeared. Pure conjecture.

I log off from ED only in stations (unless exploring when that is not possible), but I have been disconnected from EDs servers countless times even though my internet connection is still up.
Would hate to think that my ship is still floating in space due to circumstances outside my control.

FD have designed a system where people are required to be online in order to be in the game, and it is ridiculous to suggest that anyone should be forced to stay in game (via an iffy ghost connection) when they no longer are connected to ED's servers.
Accept that you lost a kill and play on. It is not as if it doesn't happen in real combat that targets are lost in ways that the aggressor thinks are impossible.

 

[Cathalo]

That, of course, is dependant on Frontier being able to reliably determine a plug-pull/process kill.

Only the players can govern this aspect, FD will never be able to track it reliably. However, if a player gets enough infractions for combat logging then FD can take appropriate measures. I think its fairly obvious that if a player gets reported by 3 or more people for combat logging then he's guilty of doing so and FD will send him back to solo mode or put him in the penalty box with the rest of the exploiters.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Not on this side of the atlantic

Tempest in a teapot (American English), or storm in a teacup (British English)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_in_a_teapot

Bah! Bloody yanks don't even drink tea!


And where's the cucumber sandwiches!!??

lol

 

[Cathalo]

Its just sour grapes. No one posting here knows under what mechanism their target disappeared. Pure conjecture.

I log off from ED only in stations (unless exploring when that is not possible), but I have been disconnected from EDs servers countless times even though my internet connection is still up.
Would hate to think that my ship is still floating in space due to circumstances outside my control.

FD have designed a system where people are required to be online in order to be in the game, and it is ridiculous to suggest that anyone should be forced to stay in game (via an iffy ghost connection) when they no longer are connected to ED's servers.
Accept that you lost a kill and play on. It is not as if it doesn't happen in real combat that targets are lost in ways that the aggressor thinks are impossible.

This argument has been dispelled time and time again, and I do encourage you to go find me a competitive online game where random disconnects while in PvP combat are not penalized by death. You and people like you are simply parroting the same garbage rhetoric that other like minded trolls have been putting out, yet you do not understand it you simply agree with it.

 

[NEBBI]

I'm a bounty hunter, that's what I do and what earns me money in game. And yes, I prefer to hunt human prey that thinks, fights back hard and tries to outsmart me. Just a few minutes ago I chased a wanted CMDR across several systems following FSD wakes and interdicting him. He gave me a good chase until I finally pinned him down and of course he DCs with 10% hull left. Leaving me with fuel and repair costs and thousands of credits worth of ammo wasted.

What makes this game great IMO is the open world with all its choices and consequences. So if you have a bounty on you and are not prepared to face the possible consequence of being hunted down, please have the courtesy of playing solo instead of wasting my time. This is really frustrating and immersion breaking...I hope the devs will fix it in the future. At the very least let the ships of wanted players be replaced by an AI pilot for a minute or so.

maybe his dinner was ready

 

[Rivka]

Only the players can govern this aspect, FD will never be able to track it reliably. However, if a player gets enough infractions for combat logging then FD can take appropriate measures. I think its fairly obvious that if a player gets reported by 3 or more people for combat logging then he's guilty of doing so and FD will send him back to solo mode or put him in the penalty box with the rest of the exploiters.

Minor quibble, I'd up the numbers needed for a "successful" report into the low double digits in that case, just to avoid people trying to metagame others out of play.

That, and there has to at least be SOME telemetry data FD can use, be it crash logs and error reports. just a simple "Was client interdicted y/n?" "Was client in combat y/n" type queries after a crash or connectivity loss would help "solidify" the case. Perhaps a player report+telemetry automatic flagging system, with a human review before handing out sanctions.

 

[OVMorat]

Did you hear that guys? A game with borked PVP, where the developers acknowledge it's borked and will eventually fix it is apparently not the game for us.
It's like park here, god this forum is hilarious.

Can't argue there!

I don't understand the baby cat* footing going on here. The whole thing could be solved very simply. If you log off or disconnect within 3 minutes of taking damage, you die. Your ship explodes and you die. The only exception would be if you are docked.
Simple.

You could even have a timer counting down on the screen to make it very clear to people that they will die if they log off just to remove the last excuse of the pathetically sensitive people who seem to think that dying in a GAME is just as bad as being forcibly violated in real life.


Honestly, if you can't take being killed in Elite then maybe it's just no the game for you....



*REALLY???

 

[ToniB]

So, if everything you just said is true and you rarely every PvP in this game then the issue of combat logging does not effect you. Since we have gotten that out of the way, why are you posting in this thread?

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Not sure I understand, are you suggesting that the people who exploit the game are the ones who can't handle spicy or the folks who play the game by the rules?

im saying, that people play open and then dont have the guts to face the consequences of it.

 

[Cathalo]

Minor quibble, I'd up the numbers needed for a "successful" report into the low double digits in that case, just to avoid people trying to metagame others out of play.

That, and there has to at least be SOME telemetry data FD can use, be it crash logs and error reports. just a simple "Was client interdicted y/n?" "Was client in combat y/n" type queries after a crash or connectivity loss would help "solidify" the case. Perhaps a player report+telemetry automatic flagging system, with a human review before handing out sanctions.

I disagree with the low double digits being needed, because you have to assume that there will be some players who will not report it. If a player gets reported 3 times for combat logging, he's probably done it close to 5 or 6 times and only half the players took the time to report him for it. I think after the player gets reported 3 times they should at least receive a warning from FD that states clearly "You have received a warning for dishonorable gameplay, if you continue you will be placed in solo mode".

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im saying, that people play open and then dont have the guts to face the consequences of it.

Cool, bro. I agree. Sorry but I didn't receive it that way. There are a lot of trolls on here now and I have had my troll protector up and hardpoints deployed. =)

 

[ToniB]

The problem with any fix to the ol' logofski issue is that it effectively punishes people who are subject to random disconnects, crashes, or anything else.

those people should just play solo then.