The Revolutionary Jotunheim Resistance and the Ngadjal Situation - A plea for help from Frontier

[El Grillo]

So how do you try to advance influence?
Missions?

Are you refraining from all trading/bountyhunting activity in the system?
Do you concentrate on the right missions?

But then... the chances of your actions counteracting each other in such a way that the overall result is -0.1% every few days are basically zero.
Overall a high amount of activity should lead to some influence change, in whichever direction. And not a gradual loss over time.

We had an influence boost up 6% in a day two days ago when we switched our trading activities to another system. So the actions it takes to achieve influence changes in some dirthole aren't not that high.

We've tried many combinations of all of these things. We've had no problem whatsoever getting the RJR up to incredibly high influence in Jotunheim. But the civil war in Jotunheim doesn't seem to do anything, and the Ngadjal influence system just doesn't seem to be responding in any coherent fashion.
I completely agree with others here that some answers would be greatly appreciated, even if we're just told that certain things aren't working at the moment, or if we're asked to help by testing things live.

 

[veep]

Frontier I really like your game--I kickstarted it!--and hell I like buying skins but these faction things being broken so badly--with no explanation at all from you--is incredibly discouraging.

And that you're worrying about fixing the dumb logoff exploit instead of core gameplay functionality, and not being upfront with "hey, this stuff is broken, this stuff is working, and this stuff we're not sure about, we could use players help in experimenting" is really frustrating.

Ishmael tells it how it is. I'm absolutely frustrated with what is plainly dishonest conduct by Frontier. It started with selling as "release ready" what is an early beta at best and it continues with silence over its issues.

Frontier, you need to step out of the closet and start being honest to your customers. As far as I'm concerned we are playing Elite: Dangerous Alpha 9, and I don't mind actually, but I do mind what sure feels like being treated like a fool.

 

[Hazdoc]

Aren't the Goons based at Jotunheim? Maybe they are opposing your efforts

Conspiracy theory time

If you knew who the Goons were backing in Jotunheim, you'd know precisely where there is no conspiracy.
Its because there are no Goons.

Anyways, the push to increase influence in Ngadjal was prior to the Civil War in Jotunheim, and the Revolutionary Jotunheim Resistance isn't involved in the Civil War. There should be no conflict with attempting to increase the RJR's influence in Ngadjal. At first we thought it was the bug where influence gained in one system was being added to the faction's originating system (so gains in Ngadjal were redirected to the RJR in Jotuneheim), but that was supposed to have been fixed. The influence is still not going up.

Micheal brookes is still looking at bugs, plus u need to remember minor factions cant take over a 2nd system, only large 3 can do that.

I've not seen that posted anywhere, could you link me to a source for that?
The RJR have actually expanded INTO Ngadjal, they are one of the factions in that system now. They should be capable of increasing influence (if that worked), then get into a Civil War with the factions that control stations in Ngadjal and be able to take them over (assuming Civil Wars worked). So far, we've seen literally none of this work.

 

[sneakyfrog]

Aren't the Goons based at Jotunheim? Maybe they are opposing your efforts

Conspiracy theory time

Oh crap! Where?

in all seriousness I ran missions in Ngadjal for at least 2 days.. it seemed to go down .01 % which doesn't really make sense..

 

[medwyn]

I agree an official statement would be essential in this topic. Actually it's something I would be happy to see described in the game manual since it's touching the core of the game mechanics. As a sandbox ED leaves it to the players to decide what goals they are willing to pursue but with basic knowledge of what action takes what effect, the sandbox can not function properly.
ED is a released game and it means different expectations from the playerbase. This one is fundamental and it appears to be - there are increasing numbers of topics coming up about the background simulation.
Hope to get some valuable input from FD and also hope to see these issues getting priority over the maybe more shiny but less fundamental upgrades.

 

[evilolive]

Aren't the Goons based at Jotunheim? Maybe they are opposing your efforts

Conspiracy theory time

LMAO.*





*I love your sig by the way, commander.

 

[_Flin_]

We've tried many combinations of all of these things. We've had no problem whatsoever getting the RJR up to incredibly high influence in Jotunheim. But the civil war in Jotunheim doesn't seem to do anything, and the Ngadjal influence system just doesn't seem to be responding in any coherent fashion.

From what we have learned in the many experiments all over the galaxy:
Civil Wars aren't won in conflict zones.
We had quite a few people in quite a few civil wars, and all reported that the combat bonds cashed in didn't seem to make much of a difference.
It's probably mainly missions and trading, from my experience and perceptions, that win civil wars through influence differentials.

I completely agree with others here that some answers would be greatly appreciated, even if we're just told that certain things aren't working at the moment, or if we're asked to help by testing things live.

You might want to check the Dev Forum checker
http://eft.recoil.org/
to get regular updates from the Devs.

The main sources for information about the background simulation are in the Mikunn and Lugh threads. Michael Brookes is explaining quite a lot lately.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=97577
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=71327

Nevertheless, the situation you encounter in Ngadjal sounds a lot like a bug.
I think the best way to achieve something is to contact Michael Brookes via PM, make a description of the encountered issue, point to the tickets created, and back it up with some hard data about
- missions done for the faction over a defined amount of time
(EDIT: For a frame of reference, we have done about 800 recorded missions in our target system since 1.04, resulting in about 20% influence rise, including trading and fighting effects)
- other activity you have done to raise the influence.

It isn't guaranteed to work but it might help.

If not you will at least get a polite answer.

 

[Ram Paige]

OP et al., I don't think Elite is the game you think it is.

 

[_Flin_]

OP et al., I don't think Elite is the game you think it is.

Hushhush, off to the "My most immersible Moment" thread.

There are mechanisms to change systems and influence. So it might be that Eliteangerous isn't the game You think it is.

 

[sneakyfrog]

OP et al., I don't think Elite is the game you think it is.

so you arent supposed to support various factions and have them respond in any way?

huh..

 

[Crabwich]

Aren't the Goons based at Jotunheim? Maybe they are opposing your efforts

Conspiracy theory time

It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma surrounded by a palladium cloud.


EDIT BTW, We do need and expect answers on this issue FD.

 

[tompepper]

OP et al., I don't think Elite is the game you think it is.

Clarification on what this game actually is would be swell.

 

[Ideas Man]

This is a slap in the face

 

[Elementical]

Could someone in the area please clarify something for me?
There has been several references in this thread to a civil war in the Jotunheim system. As far as I can see that's currently not the case.

Current Active States in Jotunheim system:
Revolutionary Jotunheim Resistance - None
Autocracy of Jotunheim - None
Gold Central Company -Lockdown
Jotunheim Clan - Civil Unrest

Are you referring to Ngadjal and Revolutionary Jotunheim Resistance faction? I don't have the exploration data of that system, hence my confusion.

Is there a civil war in Ngadjal and you're currently experiencing minor influence changes for the faction you're supporting? The non-civil war factions are gaining influence instead?

If so, that replicates the same problems encountered in several other active civil war systems. The influence mechanics appear to completely change in a system once the civil war state is present. Whether this is by design or a bug we simply don't know yet, as we've had no confirmation about altered influence mechanics once a civil war occurs.

 

[CMDRKNac]

Remember one faction can only has one active state at once. So if you still have 'expanding' state in the origin system it's probably a bug if you have a 'civil war' in a neighbour system. The BG is a buggy mess.

 

[NumptyScrub]

OP et al., I don't think Elite is the game you think it is.

If you do missions or trade with a faction station, you can increase their influence
If you increase their influence enough, you can start a civil war
If the faction wins a civil war, they can become the controlling faction for a system
If they gain enough influence and are the controlling faction, then their influence can spread to neighbouring systems

So, given those mechanics are already in the game (albeit working in strange and mysterious and not terribly predictable ways at the moment), can you really say that player efforts in system flipping are not "part of the game"?

It seems obvious to me, that having those mechanics already implemented, means that players are intended to be able to affect faction standings and status with their actions. This in turn suggests that players wanting to push a faction they identify with (or the one with the dumbest name ) through to galactic dominance are expected to eventually be able to do so.

I like to space tourist with my E: D time, but I absolutely agree that if people want to play with faction standings, and the game mechanics allow people to play with faction standings, then E: D is a game about factions standings just as much as it is about space tourism. Maybe more so, as pushing faction standings apparently involves a wide spectrum of E: D activities (mission running, trading, combat) and is thus quite a well rounded approach for players to play the game.

Also for some reason I really like the idea of system(atically) flipping a whole spiral arm to one faction, or trying to push one faction all the way to Sagittarius A*, just for the grins

 

[Kermit Laphroaig]

Aren't the Goons based at Jotunheim? Maybe they are opposing your efforts

Conspiracy theory time

Heard joke once: Frog goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says faction mechanics seem harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in an incomplete game where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says, "Treatment is simple. Great Goon Kermit Laphroaig is in Jotunheim tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Frog bursts into tears. Says, "But doctor...I am Goon."

 

[GlyphGryph]

Elementical - interesting. The war may have just ended, knocking both factions into their next state (it was between the golds and the clan in jotunheim)! I will have to see the result.

 

[CMDR Jenna Nord]

I spent some time in Jotunheim last week and got Ally with the Revolutionary Jotunheim Resistance also. But I never encountered more then a single player in the system or around! Are you guys in a Private Group or why didn't I see anybody there?

 

[sneakyfrog]

I spent some time in Jotunheim last week and got Ally with the Revolutionary Jotunheim Resistance also. But I never encountered more then a single player in the system or around! Are you guys in a Private Group or why didn't I see anybody there?

we put the mostly in MMO

(instancing isnt easy)