What's the official word on the DDF/DDA?

[Hadron-Higgs-Boson]

It has!?

Devs (and especially Michael) being active here in the forum answering questions every single workday since they came back from the holidays.
Updates every week.
Development updates on the forum every Thursday.
Weekly newsletters.
The 1.1 release coming next week.

Yeah...they really need to step up their game!!

frequency does not equal strength or quality, a weekly or daily update that presents barely enough to complete a sentence is weak, IMO of course, you are entitled to yours too

There is a whole host of things missing, not complete, not imlemented, expected, hoped for, etc and a lot of the backers and community in general would be well served by some clarity. We are slowly finding out that quite a lot of things are not what they first appeared to be or what we thought they would be based on what we had been told. As much as I am enjoying the game and having fun playing I want this to be a long term play. As we dont know the details of 1.1 or 1.2 etc its going to be very telling on the ongoing development, and this is, again IMO, just adding some missing features that shoudl have been here over a month ago.

 

[Sanderson]

1.1 due Feb
1.2 due March

Where is 8 months coming from?

Just becasue they haven't shared their plans, doesn't mean they don't have one. They are under no obligation to share any road map information with us.

Typo, was supposed to be "8 weeks".

........and since you missed it, I'm not asking for a plan (as stated more than once in the post).

 

[Winterwalker]

I'd like to think that most of the people in the DDF would be mature enough to understand that, whatever went on, it was never a contractual commitment and things change in development. However, what is (with hindsight) annoying is the fact that too many of us fell into the trap of 'defending' the game as it developed to new people asking 'what's this game about?' questions, with responses like 'look in the DDAs - it will be like that'. I don't recall any instances of a Dev. adding any cautionary statement warning against such behaviour, as a sticky as to the forums. Indeed, a lot of the gnashing and wailing of teeth has come from people believing in the whole 'there'll be more in Alpha 2/3/4/Prem Beta 1/2/Beta/Gamma/'Vertical Slice'' fallacy - which also could have been nipped in the bud, with a more honest 'what you see is what you get' statement.
.
Anyway, I'm being too retrospective, when the thread topic is on 'what's the purpose of the DDA/DDF now?' - which Tinman has handily collated statements on.

I think a lot of this falls into the "we're making the game we want to play" category, DB's statement, and the reason for having things like the DDA in with the kickstarter. I think that's the game the backers want to play too. What I DON'T think it is right now, is a time to worry too much about when (or even if features will be introduced or even roadmapped). This is because of the current development phase, the game is still being stabilised and the core features are in. Now we're getting some added features, naming of new systems, balance regarding galnet and groups which, while not a core mechanic necessarily are probably core to the gameplay or related to seeting up a galaxy which we all hope will last long into the future.

Personally I'd defend the DDA (not as a member of it, not) but as the full features to expect. We just don't know when. And if FD aren't saying? I wouldn't be at all surprised if they don't yet know either. Tinman gives a mix of quotes that illustrate that. What I would do is bring analogy, some garage building me a kit car. Chassis done, engine in, it runs, great. What about the windshield, what about the seatbelts? These will be done in the order that suits the CRAFTSMAN, not in the order that I think they should be done. All that really matters is that we have a nice end result and, if caring enough about it, and while sure I might "want" it quickly, what really matters is the quality of the beast "at the end" and that should be worth waiting for.

imho.

Cmdr Winterwalker,
Light System Vehicle "Caratacitus Potts"

 

[Sanderson]

Based on some of the replies I think people are confused and believe 1.1/1.2 is the answer to ":what happened to the DDF/DDS?" which obviously is not the answer to what was a misinterpreted (or poorly communicated) question.

So, to reiterate, what happened to the DDF/DDA? Where is it now as far as will any/part/none make it in the game at some point? Is it a "we don't know yet, we'll see"? and etc.....

 

[Lobstris]

All that really matters is that we have a nice end result and, if caring enough about it, and while sure I might "want" it quickly, what really matters is the quality of the beast "at the end" and that should be worth waiting for.

Agreed. But will there be anyone still around waiting?

So, to reiterate, what happened to the DDF/DDA? Where is it now as far as will any/part/none make it in the game at some point? Is it a "we don't know yet, we'll see"? and etc.....

Regarding the DDA's - until someone from FDev says something definitive - we're all just semi-pointlessly speculating. As to the DDF, well, as noted above, there has been some recent activity. They're trying to fulfil their end of that bargain I feel - but don't seem to have thought it through much.

 

[ciger]

It has!?

Devs (and especially Michael) being active here in the forum answering questions every single workday since they came back from the holidays.
Updates every week.
Development updates on the forum every Thursday.
Weekly newsletters.
The 1.1 release coming next week.

Yeah...they really need to step up their game!!

updates are pretty much on par with the newsletter, only vague information and some pretty screenshots.
sure devs do answer some of the questions, mostly the ones that suit them.
just look at the pretty big threads about how the backround sim is not working. the best answer we got was "blackbox".

 

[malicious1]

I see the DDA as an ideal target, which will probably never be completely reached. As the game progresses, some previously unplanned features will appear and make some stuff from the DDF obsolete, or some of the ideas will simply not be compatible with the way the game has evolved (cf. offline mode). Some others will simply be added, in due time. By sharing and discussing those advanced design documents, FD has simply been more transparent than other companies with their AAA games, which never reveal the entire features list before the game is actually released, precisely because they know some of the planned features won't make it because they dont work, or are above budget, and they don't want customers to complain that such or such feature is missing. Unfortunately, due to their transparency during early development, FD have positioned themselves at the mercy of such comments.

Also, it's likely that the expansions and the base-game content are (at least partially) being developped by different people, so that the base game will keep receiving new content while some devs work "in secret" on the expansions.

Considering all this, it's not fair nor logical to expect FD to deliver ALL of the DDA features before any expansion is released.

that they think we will just shell out whatever cash for expansion when the game is woefully under developed is s serious miscalculation on Mr Brabens part

 

[Tarman]

Based on some of the replies I think people are confused and believe 1.1/1.2 is the answer to ":what happened to the DDF/DDS?" which obviously is not the answer to what was a misinterpreted (or poorly communicated) question.

So, to reiterate, what happened to the DDF/DDA? Where is it now as far as will any/part/none make it in the game at some point? Is it a "we don't know yet, we'll see"? and etc.....

I've pretty much relegated any and all DDF data as speculative at best. If it gets out into the game, cool, but I'm not going to use it as a futurestick to beat naysayers with. It's not strong enough to use as an argumentative tool anymore.

 

[Sanderson]

I've pretty much relegated any and all DDF data as speculative at best. If it gets out into the game, cool, but I'm not going to use it as a futurestick to beat naysayers with. It's not strong enough to use as an argumentative tool anymore.

That's exactly why I'm asking for clarification.

 

[Winterwalker]

To, to reiterate, what happened to the DDF/DDA? Where is it now as far as will any/part/none make it in the game at some point? Is it a "we don't know yet, we'll see"? and etc.....

Yup .. I think the problem is that DDA, was archived, and (I for one) don't know where the archive is at the moment? That's a forum issue though, not a game related one? Wouldn't mind seeing it back, but something in me tells me that is wasn't FD saying, "right scrap all that, game is done, there, the end." ... or maybe they ... did !!!!! ( ba-ha-ha)

 

[Sanderson]

Yup .. I think the problem is that DDA, was archived, and (I for one) don't know where the archive is at the moment? That's a forum issue though, not a game related one? Wouldn't mind seeing it back, but something in me tells me that is wasn't FD saying, "right scrap all that, game is done, there, the end." ... or maybe they ... did !!!!! ( ba-ha-ha)

Exactly why I'm asking. Is it still a "thing" or what? No one, not even TinMan, knows.........where's Scooby Doo when I need him?

 

[snotface]

Back in the days when I joined this forum, 2007, I asked the question about when the game would be released. I was told it was coming soon and they they had already started programming. Then after a while it was announced Elite was shelved. The have had a very long time to sort out its content, but they ability for them to create the game just was not there. Now they stated very clearly that the game would be released in 2014, which was great, but I was never under the illusion that it would ever be a complete product. No game at the point of release is a full product game because online games need to start making money so they can continue to update and expand the game. Look at Wow for a model, how many updates and they was not a fully working model upon release, talk about bugs.

I expect FDev to tell us something, but they have also released interviews online where they discuss what they would like to see in game, walking around the ship, planet landings, and other stuff. We all have a wish list but so does FDev. I personally would like to see tractor beam cargo scoop, military grade weapons, and Thargoids and other aliens brought into Elites universe.
FDev need to being something Dangerous into the game otherwise the only Dangerous aspect to this game is the human aspect.

I never looked at these lists because it would be pointless to be let down after getting your hopes up. I have 3 things on my list, and I know 2 of them are coming into game so I am happy. It could be worse, they could have said that this is the game so far and the next update will be next Christmas..

 

[ciger]

Yup .. I think the problem is that DDA, was archived, and (I for one) don't know where the archive is at the moment? That's a forum issue though, not a game related one? Wouldn't mind seeing it back, but something in me tells me that is wasn't FD saying, "right scrap all that, game is done, there, the end." ... or maybe they ... did !!!!! ( ba-ha-ha)

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=36 it is here, everyone can have a look and shed a tear

 

[erbal]

I'd like to hear from FD, the FD communication since launch has been pretty weak

Personally I'd say that the communication all along has been pretty weak - but that's me as a person who feels so invested into this game that it's a personal part of my life.

If I stand back from that, and look at this like I would any other software project, then the level of communication, compared to say enterprise software development, is actually pretty good - there are frequent (if not regular) updates, which are accompanied by comprehensive release notes and a vauge roadmap for the short term has been released.

The DDF is a wishlist, possibly an unrealistic wishlist, since if every feature in there were implemented there would be no need for any other game to ever be published, FD would be villified for having destroyed the game developer economy

Yes, I'm possibly a fanboi, but I'm also a developer, and things ALWAYS take longer than you expect, and usually it's the things that look 'easy' on the surface that take the most time to get right.

Chill your boots people, the game has only been out for a month or so, and it was far from complete when it was released - as most games are! I used to live with one of the guys that designed the original tomb raider, and there are SO many features missing in the final release that were in the original design document (I have a copy of that somewhere). At least FD aren't going to do the same as they did to the original developers of TR and kick the product out before it's done, refuse to let them develop it further, then give them crap for going on holiday after they'd made a no-name developer into the biggest thing since sliced bread!!!

 

[Jezzah]

In fairness it was the DDF and the information in there that prompted me and many others i suspect to buy into ED at the alpha stage. It was an amazing proposal and the over and back discussions with the Devs hammering the various aspects of gameplay out gave it a lot of credibility to my mind so when I jumped in I felt the DDF was advertising an amazing prospect.

When I joined alpha the game even at that early stage over a year age had an incredible effect. Without being facetious the game hasnt moved much further on for me. It's gotten bigger yes but many of the bare bones placeholder systems are not much changed since alpha and beta stages. The depth isn't there at all and bares no resemblance to the promise the DDF showed. It's such a damn shame and they may well implement some of the DDF but FD are so cagey and non committal about it it's almost a dirty secret they want to keep quiet. There's enough devs posting here intimating about how some things won't make it and others will but again no communication as to what features WILL make it.

I have faith that FD will put something out there but the when is important. If it's going to take 2 years to bring the basic game to the standard it deserves the I'm afraid that boat has sailed and people won't be talking up the game on the Internet or media. People will have moved on. ALL that's keeping me playing is the 300 quid investment I made over a year ago. Sad as it is to say but Star Citizen may well be the one many choose to click on in 2 years time when they boot up windows.

 

[Lobstris]

Back in the days when I joined this forum, 2007, I asked the question about when the game would be released. I was told it was coming soon and they they had already started programming. Then after a while it was announced Elite was shelved. The have had a very long time to sort out its content, but they ability for them to create the game just was not there.

One of the reasons I backed was that we were lead to believe that (at least sometime during the KS) 'key technologies' like multiplayer were 'done', and there was 'skunk-works' like development stretching back over the previous decade. We now know multiplayer is still an issue, and that most of the development really started after the Kickstarter ended. Maybe (probably?) there were numerous false starts and other issues (what did happen to 'The Outsider' and it's technology?)
.
Anyway, surely we can all bask in the DDF's triumph that is the Frame Shift Drive and super-cruise! The non-simulation playing masses must lionise us for that!

 

[Biffa]

The DDF for me was like "Wait for the release", "Soon" and "Use your Imagination", I accept that everyone has their own idea of what the game should be and how it should develop but I think the frustration with the game is now more universal and the honeymoon of excitement is finished and sadly the new players have all moved elsewhere.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

One of the reasons I backed was that we were lead to believe that (at least sometime during the KS) 'key technologies' like multiplayer were 'done', and there was 'skunk-works' like development stretching back over the previous decade. We now know multiplayer is still an issue, and that most of the development really started after the Kickstarter ended. Maybe (probably?) there were numerous false starts and other issues (what did happen to 'The Outsider' and it's technology?)
.
Anyway, surely we can all bask in the DDF's triumph that is the Frame Shift Drive and super-cruise! The non-simulation playing masses must lionise us for that!

It is clear that quite a lot WAS done as skunk works. Remember there was a video of Sandro chasing David through an asteroid belt in the kickstarter. But having the basic engine for the flight model working is far from having a finished game. I have no doubt that some, at least, in FD thought that the networking stuff was done and that FD got several big surprises when they went into alpha. As several people have said its the obvious placeholders that are so disappointing. I deliberately sat out the gamma so I would come fresh to the GA version. And then I discovered that very little had changed since the beta.

 

[ComradeFresco]

The game is still advertising and selling itself on future potential so it better deliver some of it somewhere. A roadmap would be appropriate to release for all the people who have paid in - everyone who is an adult will be aware that plans change and they might miss dates. However would be nice for FD to state intentions.

 

[Winterwalker]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=36 it is here, everyone can have a look and shed a tear

You Sir are an officer and a gentleman.

The DDF for me was like "Wait for the release", "Soon" and "Use your Imagination", I accept that everyone has their own idea of what the game should be and how it should develop but I think the frustration with the game is now more universal and the honeymoon of excitement is finished and sadly the new players have all moved elsewhere.

Fear ye not chap. I'm not frustrated with the game however, and I know plenty others aren't either. What we have now is Ooolite x one ZILLION .. with more to come. Cheers very much (don't stop don't stop)

ps. Off topic (but talking about long lived characters that never quite "hit the big time" but bask in their cult statusness, forever) .. did anyone else enjoy Dredd, The Day the Law Died (audio) on Radio 4 this morning? .. That's Radio FOUR ladies and gents .. ( and for any out of towners, that's pretty much like showing it big screen, on the White House lawn!! Better yet, true story. )