PVP Pirating in Yembo

[mossfoot]

I got mugged in Yembo today, tried to run but he was close enough my Frameshift was charging at a snails pace and I feared I wouldn't make it. I dropped my palladium as asked (let me keep my silver) and he let me go.

Later one system over I got hailed. My response "please don't mug me!"

Turned out it was a bounty Hunter headed for Yembo asking for intel on activity there. I told him about my plight and he said he'd try to avenge me

And later still I was interdicted again, but escaped in a pulse racing battle of wills.

In short, seems to be working out fine there

 

[BadSector]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8

To Yembo!

 

[Meritz]

The thing is, and FD have stated so, because ED uses peer-to-peer technology for connecting players to each other, there really is no central server which can say "Oh, so you're in combat and yanked the plug? I don't think so." With a P2P architecture, if a peer decides to leave, he leaves. So not sure what can they do with that, without introducing some sort of central server to handle such things.

 

[Darth Ender]

combat logging banning wont be hard because FD wont be able to determine willing disconnections from unwilling. Both should be treated as willing, in that both should be treated the same exact way as if you tried exiting the game legitimately (and the legitimate way should operate along the mechanics of normal Supercruise jumping.) The problem is, since they use a p2 model, their server is not a middle man that can arbitrate who disconnected from who. So FD has no way of knowing who is responsible for disconnected from a player's shared instance. They just dont and can't in a purely p2p networking setup. They can detect application force closes etc... But not p2p network drops / blocks.


Your best bet is that these sad, pathetic players who dont have the spine to follow through when they make the decision to play in Open just end up quitting the game or staying in solo. It doesn't seem like there is any means of doing anything else unless FD drastically changes how they handle connecting players together.

 

[ciger]

I fly an Asp and I have been practicing my Pirating Skills on NPC transports. I lower their shields with beam weapons, and then I use a hatchbreaker to get at the cargo. I felt pretty confident that I got this down pretty well.

So tonight, because of the community event I tried my hand at going after player transports in the Yembo System.

As a pirate I don't intend to kill my targets, just get some cargo after hatch breaking and let the transport be about their business. I know how expensive repairs can be and I'm not trying to just blow people out of the sky for no reason.

I managed to track a transport that had just filled up on metals and was heading to the drop off station. I interdict him and then I begin a cargo scan just to be sure. While this is going on he is boosting away, but I'm staying right behind him. I haven't even fired a shot. About 15 seconds later, *poof* combat log. I thought. Why is this CMDR even playing in Open if he's just going to do that?

So I decided to try my luck again. I track another transport heading to the drop off and I know he has the cargo I'm looking for because I tracked him from the pick up point all the way to the drop. I interdict, I don't bother with the cargo scan, and I fire my beam weapons. His shields drop, I switch to hatchbreaker, feel super excited at this point, and then *poof* combat log.

So I'm thinking, 15 second combat log timer isn't going to cut it. Why bother playing in OPEN play if you're just going to run away from other players who are playing the man possible roles provided in the game?

So at this point I have a bounty on my head since I interdicted 2 players. I frameshift and head to the closest station to pay it off. Next thing you know I get interdicted by a Viper. He asks me if I have been harassing players in the area. I respond "I have been attempting to Pirate players, but they all have combat logged." So he says, "Time to fight!" I attempt to fight him, but Vipers are really quick. I only carry 1 shield cell and he eventually wears me down. I start taking damage and he gets me to about 65%. So I boost and leave.

I get interdicted again. This time TWO vipers and not even the same one from before. These guys start firing on me, but I don't even face them. I boost and head to the station and pay my bounties. My repair bill was about 145K.

So instead of playing the role of a Pirate and get some cargo I get a huge repair bill because I don't combat log. I don't even get to see any cargo at all because of the combat logging. Even if I had another Pirate help me out in this situation it wouldn't matter. You can't lower shields and hatchbreak in 15 seconds.

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Shouldn't the combat log timer be a bit longer? Or maybe you get 3 strikes rule or something and the timer gets longer each strike? I have never combat logged and I have been destroyed many times by other players while doing the luxury cargo runs. It just doesn't seem like a fair way to play the game. Why not just stay in Single player mode if you don't want to get attacked?

I love this game, and I want to be a Pirate. I even bought the paint job!

Thanks for reading my rant.

welcome to the world of pirates yeah it sucks big time, some traders dont even bother with logging out, they just self destruct.... and really if people log out on you, do the same when bhs attack you. maybe if more people start to complain FD will actually do something. 15s is a joke. elite: carebear

 

[BadSector]

In the end, while i know it is annoying, why we, who choose "role" play the game, give a flying duck about those who clearly are not "in the game" Lets just ignore them?

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

So at this point I have a bounty on my head since I interdicted 2 players. I frameshift and head to the closest station to pay it off.

You have forgotten the face of your father!

 

[Silverclaw]

In my opinion, the PvP/PvE interaction in this game is seriously flawed. As a trader and pvp-hater, I don't want to get interdicted by human players (and it has happened).
I know you're going to say "just play solo", but what's the point of a MMO game if I have to play solo to avoid gettin' ganked? Sure enough, I can just join a PvE group, but then the ED community is split apart into multiple groups which don't ever see each other - essentially breaking the MMO claim of the game.

Traders (like myself) play in Open Play and combat log because it's the only way to get an online experience (ie, with humans) without the danger associated with it. At one point I even got a human pirate asking me to dump cargo while my hold was empty.

Other games solved this issue by implementing "voluntary pvp". If you are willing to get interdicted and pirated by humans, toggle that on. Sadly, this option isn't available in ED.

Human pirates would also welcome this change because then they'd know who they could interdict without having peeps just vanish. No more wasted time or ammunition.

 

[ciger]

In my opinion, the PvP/PvE interaction in this game is seriously flawed. As a trader and pvp-hater, I don't want to get interdicted by human players (and it has happened).
I know you're going to say "just play solo", but what's the point of a MMO game if I have to play solo to avoid gettin' ganked? Sure enough, I can just join a PvE group, but then the ED community is split apart into multiple groups which don't ever see each other - essentially breaking the MMO claim of the game.

Traders (like myself) play in Open Play and combat log because it's the only way to get an online experience (ie, with humans) without the danger associated with it. At one point I even got a human pirate asking me to dump cargo while my hold was empty.

Other games solved this issue by implementing "voluntary pvp". If you are willing to get interdicted and pirated by humans, toggle that on. Sadly, this option isn't available in ED.

Human pirates would also welcome this change because then they'd know who they could interdict without having peeps just vanish. No more wasted time or ammunition.

ok so NPCs are getting buffed so hopefully they will actually be more than cannon fodder, will you combat log in case an elite NPC interdicts you and asks for your cargo? what is the difference?

 

[Space Pirate]

I was thinking with my 3 Strikes rule, a log sickness maybe has to be implemented. You keep logging out during combat situations you come back and your ship is slow, or you suffer an earning penalty. Or something. Something that when you keep logging you are hampered in some way. That way you just stick to solo, or actually stay in the game for the gameplay pvp to happen.

THIS GAME IS CALLED ELITE DANGEROUS. DANGEROUS...

DANGER...

Ous.

 

[Jaeger]

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Remove insurance, and retain cargo on restart in last docked station i.e. no cost to being destroyed.

Leave the challenge to be getting to your target like it was in Elite.

Did the whole debt economy thing come about as a path to micro-transactions ? The DDA members messed up.

 

[Skip Intro]

In my opinion, the PvP/PvE interaction in this game is seriously flawed. As a trader and pvp-hater, I don't want to get interdicted by human players (and it has happened).
I know you're going to say "just play solo", but what's the point of a MMO game if I have to play solo to avoid gettin' ganked? Sure enough, I can just join a PvE group, but then the ED community is split apart into multiple groups which don't ever see each other - essentially breaking the MMO claim of the game.

Traders (like myself) play in Open Play and combat log because it's the only way to get an online experience (ie, with humans) without the danger associated with it. At one point I even got a human pirate asking me to dump cargo while my hold was empty.

Other games solved this issue by implementing "voluntary pvp". If you are willing to get interdicted and pirated by humans, toggle that on. Sadly, this option isn't available in ED.

Human pirates would also welcome this change because then they'd know who they could interdict without having peeps just vanish. No more wasted time or ammunition.

What's the point of playing in Open and then try to pick and choose your interactions and combat log when you don't like it?

Play in Solo or the Mobius group and you'll never need to do that and if you choose the group option, you even get to see Commanders that aren't out to 'gank' you. You will have to look out from NPCs that will interdict you, but you can still pull the plug on them and they won't come onto the forums and call you out for it.

The toggle you mention in other games showing you're willing to be interdicted by humans is already in E|D, it's the choice at the start menu when you choose Open, Solo or Group.

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Remove insurance, and retain cargo on restart in last docked station i.e. no cost to being destroyed.
Leave the challenge to be getting to your target like it was in Elite.

Why not just have a module that you can buy for 1cr, takes up a small slot and has no weight that automatically jumps you to your target station, missing out all of that tedious bit in the middle that gets in the way of your cr/ton/hr gameplay?

 

[Pyrion]

I can't understand why anybody does the combat logging thing.
I am a trader, check.
Got pirated at yembo, check.

My T9 is armed to the teeth (well, not really, but i do have 5 turrets mounted), so i did not just give up my cargo. The pirate had an asp though, so no real chance for me. Then all of a sudden 2 bounty hunter vipers pop in, giving the asp a hard time. He still fires at me from time to time (out of frustration i guess), but i manage to escape with 23% hull damage (800k credits). So i made a net loss, but it was kinda fun.

Btw.: I think it's a bug that that tiny asp can mass lock my T9, or at least a bad design decision. When an asp can do it, why should a pirate ever buy a bigger ship, risking more in the process?

Why anybody playing in open does the lame combat logging thing is beyond me. Just go solo, problem solved. Some people don't have any self respect.

 

[Jaeger]

Why not just have a module that you can buy for 1cr, takes up a small slot and has no weight that automatically jumps you to your target station, missing out all of that tedious bit in the middle that gets in the way of your cr/ton/hr gameplay?

Because the challenge was always the journey from station to station. It was difficult and there were no guarantees you would make it. Sometimes you would have to try again and again, eventually fighting through and "winning". Sometimes you got lucky.

Instead what we have now is a boring chore of repetition, where there is a culture of risk avoidance and fiscal management. You would have to be pretty deep in fanboy denial to not agree.

 

[Snakebite]

I fly an Asp and I have been practicing my Pirating Skills on NPC transports. I lower their shields with beam weapons, and then I use a hatchbreaker to get at the cargo. I felt pretty confident that I got this down pretty well.

So tonight, because of the community event I tried my hand at going after player transports in the Yembo System.

As a pirate I don't intend to kill my targets, just get some cargo after hatch breaking and let the transport be about their business. I know how expensive repairs can be and I'm not trying to just blow people out of the sky for no reason.

I managed to track a transport that had just filled up on metals and was heading to the drop off station. I interdict him and then I begin a cargo scan just to be sure. While this is going on he is boosting away, but I'm staying right behind him. I haven't even fired a shot. About 15 seconds later, *poof* combat log. I thought. Why is this CMDR even playing in Open if he's just going to do that?

So I decided to try my luck again. I track another transport heading to the drop off and I know he has the cargo I'm looking for because I tracked him from the pick up point all the way to the drop. I interdict, I don't bother with the cargo scan, and I fire my beam weapons. His shields drop, I switch to hatchbreaker, feel super excited at this point, and then *poof* combat log.

So I'm thinking, 15 second combat log timer isn't going to cut it. Why bother playing in OPEN play if you're just going to run away from other players who are playing the man possible roles provided in the game?

So at this point I have a bounty on my head since I interdicted 2 players. I frameshift and head to the closest station to pay it off. Next thing you know I get interdicted by a Viper. He asks me if I have been harassing players in the area. I respond "I have been attempting to Pirate players, but they all have combat logged." So he says, "Time to fight!" I attempt to fight him, but Vipers are really quick. I only carry 1 shield cell and he eventually wears me down. I start taking damage and he gets me to about 65%. So I boost and leave.

I get interdicted again. This time TWO vipers and not even the same one from before. These guys start firing on me, but I don't even face them. I boost and head to the station and pay my bounties. My repair bill was about 145K.

So instead of playing the role of a Pirate and get some cargo I get a huge repair bill because I don't combat log. I don't even get to see any cargo at all because of the combat logging. Even if I had another Pirate help me out in this situation it wouldn't matter. You can't lower shields and hatchbreak in 15 seconds.

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Shouldn't the combat log timer be a bit longer? Or maybe you get 3 strikes rule or something and the timer gets longer each strike? I have never combat logged and I have been destroyed many times by other players while doing the luxury cargo runs. It just doesn't seem like a fair way to play the game. Why not just stay in Single player mode if you don't want to get attacked?

I love this game, and I want to be a Pirate. I even bought the paint job!

Thanks for reading my rant.

I need to ask you a question, what is your status ?

I ask this because i've been playing as a bounty hunter (or trying too) since launch but I just cannot find any pirates anywhere !
Since launch I have scanned Hundreds of ships but only ever found NPC's with a bounty, never human players.

I've have recently come across a very small number of humans with wanted status but the bounty was hardly worth the effort and they all went *poof* when interdicted...

Although i've made several million Cr from NPC kills its getting way beyond repetitive and the lack of human pirates is dire.....

 

[Bingo Brewster]

Kudos OP (repped) for trying to pirate properly' ( i.e. not noob nuking). It is indeed very difficult to make a living as a pirate, even against NPC. My only suggestion is team work. Attack in pairs to drop shields quick enough tonlaunch a hatchbreaker. Good luck!

 

[Snakebite]

What's the point of playing in Open and then try to pick and choose your interactions and combat log when you don't like it?

Play in Solo or the Mobius group and you'll never need to do that and if you choose the group option, you even get to see Commanders that aren't out to 'gank' you. You will have to look out from NPCs that will interdict you, but you can still pull the plug on them and they won't come onto the forums and call you out for it.

The toggle you mention in other games showing you're willing to be interdicted by humans is already in E|D, it's the choice at the start menu when you choose Open, Solo or Group.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Why not just have a module that you can buy for 1cr, takes up a small slot and has no weight that automatically jumps you to your target station, missing out all of that tedious bit in the middle that gets in the way of your cr/ton/hr gameplay?

Mode swapping simply has to stop or this game will dissapear down the gravity well of poor gameplay pretty soon......

 

[Skip Intro]

Because the challenge was always the journey from station to station. It was difficult and there were no guarantees you would make it. Sometimes you would have to try again and again, eventually fighting through and "winning". Sometimes you got lucky.

Instead what we have now is a boring chore of repetition, where there is a culture of risk avoidance and fiscal management. You would have to be pretty deep in fanboy denial to not agree.

I totally agree that there should be at least some risk involved in trading. It seems that not every trader thinks this is the case.

 

[Coccolino]

Combat logging, as well as station logging, as well as Open to Solo switching possibility, is a true game breaker. A true bounty hunting (tracking) as well as a genuine pirate career is not viable due to these mechanics. The game is broken, period.
I really do hope Frontier will do something to protect the core concept of the game.

 

[Cmdr Jezath]

Logs will not be able to confirm anything as long as the said p2p model is in place.

Eg.: "Don't ban people for having a rat chewing their ethernet cable while dogfighting" etc...

Yes, but if that rat happens to chew the cable only during combat and/or only when intyerdicted/taking damage, then that's a way of flagging them as an exploiter I think.