Inflation Problems

[astronomypete]

Dear Devs and community,


every game online has problems with inflation, I suggest you watch the link below to explain it. (extra credits are good at this sort of thing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

Now with that said and viewed (hopefully) the only currency sinks I can see in Elite is insurance, hull repair, and selling of ships (where you lose a portion of what you paid for it)

We had a massive problem with Seeking Luxury items as this was obviously pumping too much money into the galactic economy.

Buying equipment at a station can and is sold for the same price you have purchased it for, so that isn't a sink.

As such do the Devs see a problem with inflation where everyone is tootling around in Anacondas with so much money that they then buy ships and keep them in storage and when they want money they will just sell a ship. There must be a point considered that when this happens the game becomes very much a case of no challenge. What thoughts have the Devs made to ensure that the game can continue past the no challenge part of the life cycle of Elite?

When we hit that point the only reason to play will be to get to the Elite status of all the three categories. What then? Will you move to Super or even Hyper Elite where you have to pay an amount per day to remain at those levels?

Fitting costs to install a beam laser?

How will the game progress when it hits that point?

 

[TehGems]

Dear Devs and community,


every game online has problems with inflation, I suggest you watch the link below to explain it. (extra credits are good at this sort of thing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

Now with that said and viewed (hopefully) the only currency sinks I can see in Elite is insurance, hull repair, and selling of ships (where you lose a portion of what you paid for it)

We had a massive problem with Seeking Luxury items as this was obviously pumping too much money into the galactic economy.

Buying equipment at a station can and is sold for the same price you have purchased it for, so that isn't a sink.

As such do the Devs see a problem with inflation where everyone is tootling around in Anacondas with so much money that they then buy ships and keep them in storage and when they want money they will just sell a ship. There must be a point considered that when this happens the game becomes very much a case of no challenge. What thoughts have the Devs made to ensure that the game can continue past the no challenge part of the life cycle of Elite?

When we hit that point the only reason to play will be to get to the Elite status of all the three categories. What then? Will you move to Super or even Hyper Elite where you have to pay an amount per day to remain at those levels?

Fitting costs to install a beam laser?

How will the game progress when it hits that point?

I guess we will have to see with the addition of new content and ships, I believe it's far too soon to talk about inflation, there is a ton of new content to be expected in the next months.

 

[Sts]

I think we should have to pay for the air we breathe in the station. The longer you stay the more it costs.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

As such do the Devs see a problem with inflation where everyone is tootling around in Anacondas with so much money that they then buy ships and keep them in storage and when they want money they will just sell a ship. There must be a point considered that when this happens the game becomes very much a case of no challenge. What thoughts have the Devs made to ensure that the game can continue past the no challenge part of the life cycle of Elite?

When we hit that point the only reason to play will be to get to the Elite status of all the three categories. What then?

Why would there be a problem?

I'm an early backer/kickstarter and have been putting in hundreds of hours into Elite. As a consequence I have all the ships purchased and all A-specced to where I want them for their particular roles as I envisage them at present. Once so specced up I garage them at my 'home' and use each one as I feel fit on the day, ie fighting with the Conda or Viper, trading with the Hauler or T-9, Hunting with the Clipper or Eagle, Mining with the T-7 etc etc.

I do not have to sell any to get money. I have 130 million in the bank and that amount is steadily climbing every day.

I do not need to worry about anything, with my biggest possible expense being my Anaconda insurance, currently sitting at 20 million buyback/96% hull coverage.

Can you see that I don't have a problem at all/no worry in the Elite world?

Now even with all I have, Elite is still as full of challenges as the day I started. Nothing has changed. I still trade, I still mine, I still bounty-hunt. Yes, I am financially secure but that's a matter of necessity no matter which ship you fly. Wealth does not change that fact. If anything, having more just increases the scope and variety of the challenges that you can pit yourself against.

Personally I don't follow your reasoning at all. Having it all does not detract from gameplay at all. On the contrary, it greatly enriches it.

 

[Loskene]

I think we should have to pay for the air we breathe in the station. The longer you stay the more it costs.

Hey, it worked for the Mars colonists in total recall. Well, I say worked...

 

[Tacheel]

Surely inflation only affect games where players buy off players, not from an npc market (that is mildly affected by players actions but should not inflate at the same rate as other games)

 

[specialsymbol]

Dear Devs and community,


every game online has problems with inflation, I suggest you watch the link below to explain it. (extra credits are good at this sort of thing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

Now with that said and viewed (hopefully) the only currency sinks I can see in Elite is insurance, hull repair, and selling of ships (where you lose a portion of what you paid for it)

We had a massive problem with Seeking Luxury items as this was obviously pumping too much money into the galactic economy.

Buying equipment at a station can and is sold for the same price you have purchased it for, so that isn't a sink.

As such do the Devs see a problem with inflation where everyone is tootling around in Anacondas with so much money that they then buy ships and keep them in storage and when they want money they will just sell a ship. There must be a point considered that when this happens the game becomes very much a case of no challenge. What thoughts have the Devs made to ensure that the game can continue past the no challenge part of the life cycle of Elite?

When we hit that point the only reason to play will be to get to the Elite status of all the three categories. What then? Will you move to Super or even Hyper Elite where you have to pay an amount per day to remain at those levels?

Fitting costs to install a beam laser?

How will the game progress when it hits that point?

First off, the video presented is complete bonkers.
There is no inflation in games. We don't have player trading (ignore dropping platinums to help out friends, that's not trading). Plus it's all virtual, there is no running out of resources or anything like that.
Also inflation in real life is far from understood, you can happily check out the World Monetary Funds on that (they admitted last year that their "models" are far from correct).

Second, the only reasons to include an arbitrary inflation is to hurt non-regular players, as an incentive to be committed to the game - and also as a way to artificially raise the relative difficulty of certain (later) goals - to slow down "progression".
So, answer yourself the question - what is progression in Elite: Dangerous? Is it to reach Level 60? Level 80, maybe? Will there be a DLC to raise it to Level 100?

And you can also do the transition back to real life - why is there the need for an incentive to keep up working? Who profits from said incentive? What is the progression in RL? Interesting thoughts, all that.

 

[CMDR Pfo]

You forgot fuel and maintenance, the two most unavoidable sinks. In theory, you could never lose nor sell a ship and not lose money to those.

Last I checked, 1% of my money total earnings was spent on fuel.

This is a moot point though. The price of ships is fixed, their supply is infinite. The price of modules is fixed, their supply is infinite. What can inflation impact? The only thing inflation can impact is the price of trade goods and their rate of change has been pretty slow considering that people post routes that are often run by lots of players and there are so many routes available that it would take a long time and a lot of people for inflation to exhaust them. But that is a possibility.... that enough rich players could become so rich that they run trading into the ground across all of settled space.

the only reasons to include an arbitrary inflation is to hurt non-regular players

There is no including arbitrary inflation. If the game keeps giving out money to players (for bounties, mining, trade profit, etc...) then inflation is happening. This game already has all the pieces for arbitrary inflation: credits come out of nowhere when players do things. The question is if this could eventually become a problem, not if it's going to happen. I don't think it will, but I could be wrong, and it's never too soon to address it. Every single day the total amount of credits owned by all players is increasing; inflation is happening, but the economy is so fixed that I don't see it impacting the game.

 

[Defacto]

I think a way to solve this is to actually simulate money - if a faction pays you for doing a mission, that money comes from the faction budget. Same with stations buying your goods. No money out of thin air, unless the bank of Zaonce decides to inject more Credits, and then all prices will rise.

 

[Rolands]

ED doesnt have an economy of any kind, think of cr as a progress bar to the next ship or module.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

If you are trading to advance you are automatically doing something that is a no challenge...

All the paint jobs are real money items amd cost nothing to apply. There are no other cosmetica ingame. Fighting the Anaconda missions are more challenging now and are best suited for cheaper ships. Lose 10% hull in a large ship and well, you are in a deficit large enough that makes one question why their ship even exists.

If trading wasnt the most lucrative job in the game and us combat oriented players had a legitimate reason to keep at it when we only have 40% hull because if we succeed we get a worthwhile reward for going the distance and risking going home with nothing but an insurance fee. Then most people would gravitate towards more active gameplay because it offers more profit, but its also more challenging and alot riskier. In the end it should be up to how good a pilot a person is.

Store owner may make alot of money, but professional sports players and famous musicians make more because its a skill, not a trade.

 

[Cramer]

It might be worth considering that future, planned third party influences (Thargoids anyone?) could have a devastating effect on economies.

At the risk of mixing my metaphors... We're in the boom years baby but, er, winter is coming.

 

[Apocryphic]

I don't really see this as a problem or even particularly applicable to Elite: Dangerous.

We have no player-driven economy, there are no direct trades between players, and a given player has little to no effect on anyone else. The only ways you can affect someone else are by causing a loss (interdiction, damage, destruction) or dropping cargo to scoop.

Since there is no crafting or supply chain, even obscene amounts of funds held by some players are unable to cause inflation or otherwise impact the 'economy' as a whole. Once you reach the T9/Anaconda, cargo space limits how much you can trade regardless of capital.

Also, the credit sinks grow progressively more painful as you fly larger and better fit ships. It would take many hours of trading to recover from an A fit Anaconda loss, even if you were still able to grind Seeking Luxuries.

 

[tomalus]

This thread is sheer insanity!!!! Ships,modules,insurance,repair has to go down drasticly, not increase in price. ED has to be a game first, and it already takes hundreds of hours of trading to buy an anaconda.And hundreds more to put expensive modules on it.And hundreds more to have enough for insurance n repair.

The majority of players have lives,jobs,children,school,university and very little time to actually play the game and the grind is already too time consuming for them.

This game needs deflation not inflation, everything is overpriced.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

I don't really see this as a problem or even particularly applicable to Elite: Dangerous.

We have no player-driven economy, there are no direct trades between players, and a given player has little to no effect on anyone else. The only ways you can affect someone else are by causing a loss (interdiction, damage, destruction) or dropping cargo to scoop.

Since there is no crafting or supply chain, even obscene amounts of funds held by some players are unable to cause inflation or otherwise impact the 'economy' as a whole. Once you reach the T9/Anaconda, cargo space limits how much you can trade regardless of capital.

Also, the credit sinks grow progressively more painful as you fly larger and better fit ships. It would take many hours of trading to recover from an A fit Anaconda loss, even if you were still able to grind Seeking Luxuries.

This - don't see any reason as well why something should be change to avoid" inflation". Even if one has a trillion of credits, it doesn't impact the current system at all.

 

[lalala987]

hi
i dont think we will see inflation as seen in everquest or wow, since there are no transactions beetween players possible. the prices for ships and equipment are fixed. what we will see indeed is that the game will converge to the state where every player flys the best/most expensive ships with A equipment.

 

[Kotovsky]

We had a massive problem with Seeking Luxury items as this was obviously pumping too much money into the galactic economy.

Into the what?

 

[Clawhammer]

This game will never have inflation problems until player trade is included. Stations have more or less static prices, if you buy an eagle now for 40k it will cost the same in two month.

 

[Bortas]

Dear Devs and community,
every game online has problems with inflation, I suggest you watch the link below to explain it. (extra credits are good at this sort of thing)
How will the game progress when it hits that point?

Since there's no player-to-player-market in ED, there is no problem with inflation. All prices are either pre-defined by the developers (like ships and modules) or automatically calculated by a background simulation (like commodity-prices). It doesn't matter, if some players have billions and billions of credits. It has no influence on the game-markets at all -> no inflation.

 

[Shanaeri]

Even if there was inflation(which there isn't for the reasons people have outlined above) people make the (imho incorrect) assumption that more credits and bigger ships are the end game.

ships are like tools in a toolkit. You choose the one that best fits what YOU want to do. The end game is whatever you want it to be, which may or may not include a gazillion credits.