Are beams and multicannons truly the end-all?

[Rall]

I’m an avid cannon user, I actually prefer them to multi-cannon when fighting larger ships.

Small weapons including lasers, multit's and fragment don't do max damage against larger ships. We don't know the exact numbers buy they can't be too far from these pure guesstimates..

Small vs Small 100%
Small Vs Medium 75%
Small Vs Large 50 %

Medium Vs Small 100%
Medium Vs Medium 100%
Medium Vs Large 75%

Large Vs Everyone 100%

Hard hitting weapons - Railguns, Plasma's and Missiles don't seem to be affected by this and do consistent damage to all targets.

Cannon seem included but to a much lesser extent. So cannon tend to work much better when attacking larger targets.

The weapon dynamic change significantly once you get the Class 3 hard point on larger ships, those big C3 lasers will maul smaller ships hulls so there is little need to fit multi-cannon.

But unlike laser and multis they do consistent damage at all ranges.

With fixed cannon and some practice you can get consistent hits at range on big targets - and the gimballed cannon are also pretty connsitant at hitting big targets at range if you learn to chose your shots.

Cannon are ideal for blasting away at the big boys, and because they kinetic damage they work against sub systems. I've personally found multi's to be lacking against large targets, cannon just get the job done faster.

 

[Darth-Simba]

I want to start by saying that I love this game. I paid $75 for the beta a while back and have never regretted it. I'm not trolling. I'm not trying to incite a yelling match. I am genuinely very pleased with this game.

But... Weapons.

I've been researching for some time and I know that this is a well trod topic, but I have a specific question. Actually, I just want to be wrong... my answer is frustrating.

First, some quick background. I started in the beta. I had a hard drive crash and only recently re-installed and started playing again. I started bounty hunting with the freagle, eventually started rare routes in the type 6, and I'm currently doing a little bit of each with my ASP (I change loadouts depending on my desired playstyle for the time I have available). I'm up to around 11m in net worth and have been exploring upgraded weapons.
Here's my great, huge, colossal, gargantuan, epic frustration: I can't find ANY reason to use anything except beam lasers and multicannons. I have plenty of money to kit out my ASP or completely load out a viper... and there doesn't seem to be any point to using anything except the weapons (and even class of weapon) I've been using since I started upgrading my freagle.

This frustrates me. Please, tell me I'm wrong. Based on what I'm reading and from my own in-game tests... I already have the best set up, and there isn't a reason to upgrade weapons. None. DPS, Cost, overall effectiveness... What I'm reading and experiencing tells me that I would be best served, against all targets, with 2 beams and 4 multi-cannons.. or POSSIBLY cannons if I'm doing the anaconda hunting missions.
Missiles: I love missiles in every game I've ever played. But heat seekers are too easily defended by larger ships and totally unnecessary and cost prohibitive against smaller ships. Dumbfire only work against slow large ships... and ultimately are less effective (from a damage and cost standpoint) than cannons.

Railguns: I'm pretty accurate, but I'm not seeing this "Shred the subsystems" effect when I use them. Recently fought a 'conda with double railguns. Targeted the power plant the entire battle. Generally, I hit the box. In fact, I'd say more than 50% of my total hits against the ship were double railgun hits to the box. When the hull of the 'Conda collapsed, the powerplant was still around 90%. Like I said, I'm pretty accurate. I have no problems hitting the box (or very, very close to it). I can indefinitely paint fast ships with my beam lasers while in an evasive turn battle. If this mythical shredding of the subsystems requires more accuracy than I have... sheesh. Oh... and the 31 shots thing. Which leads me back to the research that says... just pull down the shields and fire gimballed cannons or multicannons into the hull. Lather, rinse, repeat. Research says that Railguns are ultimately less effective (from a damage and cost standpoint) than cannons.
Particle Accelerator: Slow. High temp. Slow fire rate. Same damage as the railgun but less specialized. I'll skip straight to this: Research says that Particle Accelerators are ultimately (much) less effective (from a damage and cost standpoint) than cannons.

Torpedoes: nope.

Fragment cannons: read a great post on r/EliteDangerous (I'm looking for it, and can't find it again) which detailed how the Fragment cannon and the cannon serve the same combat purpose due to strengths and limitations. Basically, both are specialized to short range combat. Cannons have more pros and less cons than the Frag cannons in that context. So again... Research says that fragment cannons are ultimately less effective (from a damage and cost standpoint) than cannons.

So... community... please... tell me I'm missing something. Tell me what I'm doing wrong with railguns. Or how to make heat-seekers viable. Or... tell me that there are new weapons and classes coming in 1.2. Or...tell me something other than... "The first weapon set up that is effective and affordable, beams and multi-cannons, is the best (and almost ONLY) viable setup for combat at all levels of the game."
Thanks in advance... and let me remind everyone... I love this game. I'm not trolling.

No it isn't I use x4 class 1 bursts and x2 class 2 multi's.... Soon as I can afford it the medium slots will have 2 plasma accelerators on.

 

[Rall]

No it isn't I use x4 class 1 bursts and x2 class 2 multi's.... Soon as I can afford it the medium slots will have 2 plasma accelerators on.

Plasma are basically energy cannon, they are VERY good at bringing down big ships shields. They indeed have their place.

 

[Gorf]

No weps are the "global end-all" (or should that be universal?)

Every player has their own style and weps that suit that style. For you, it happens to be beams and MCs.

(For me, it's burst and MCs - both gimballed.)

 

[GunnerBill]

i think the idea of diffrent makes and models of similar weapons would be fun.
and if there were similar components with diffrent stats like heat and power draw.
there could be rare weapons and components from diffrent parts of the galaxy..

imagine you go 60000ly and found a backwater station wich had some crazy special weapons sold only there..
wich have stats and visuals that make them worth the trip. would be fun..

Sort of like a Borderlands model of weapon creation?

 

[DogTailRed2]

IL2 had wholesale changes to the way the flight model worked for many years after the initial release, as well as weapon strength and effectiveness. If something wasn't right they changed it, for better or worse sometimes.

The Sturmovik was fun to fly at first. Could take damage and get to and from the target often with large parts missing.
Then the whining started and it got nerfed. It became an easy kill. Then no one flew it.
We need to be careful what we wish for.

 

[Troa Barton]

While I agree there needs to be a ton more in the weapon department. All weapons all classes different versions overcharged ect. The main problem is aside from anaconda missions you never know what you're going to fight. So the best load out is the one that allows you to take on any kind of opponent for an extended period of time. I used beams and multis up until the type 9 and conda. I used seeker missiles on the t9 pre nerf and I'm still refining my conda loadout.

 

[Cmdr Jezath]

i think the idea of diffrent makes and models of similar weapons would be fun.
and if there were similar components with diffrent stats like heat and power draw.

I agree with this part of your statement I've always thought that FD should have different company's with different weapon styles and stats, ships with slightly different stats too from diff company's but that's off topic

 

[Daisuke-kun]

In my opinion, when using energy weapons on shields, the burst laser and beam laser is on top of my list. For mass drive weapons, multicannon is the most effective when it comes down to damage over cost. But if you want a little more kick, cannon looks good, for close range, and plasma accelerator (even though they are suppose to be energy weapons but they act like mass drive weapons similar to railgun). For missiles, they made so many changes, I am not sure if they are still worth using.

 

[AJ_Impy]

Currently running five plasma accelerators on my Python.

Just because.

 

[Cmdr Jezath]

other tactical type weapons would be fun... like radiation clouds,,,, energy nets,,, EMP mines and missles.... Its not all about dps and I do hope the devs make weapons lioke these to make combat more skillfull and interesting..

 

[-Joe]

I bounty hunt with an all laser Cobra Mk3. I have A class distrib, PSU and shields.

I use 2x gimballed pulse and 2x gimballed burst to reduce shields. I try to get in tight to the target before I fire and aim for the middle of it making sure all shots hit.

I use my 2 gimballed burst lasers to take out a shieldless big/medium ships power supply module and not their hull. I fly very close to my target and try to ensure most shots hit the sub target. At very close range burst lasers are devastating to modules.

Small ships I just fly up close to 'em and shred 'em no need to select a sub target.

I never have heat related problems or need pay for ammo.

 

[Surly_Badger]

I want a sand dispenser. Just a little thingie that dispenses clouds of sand moving at relativistic speeds.

In terms of game-play:

I'd like a harpoon gun that shoots a great big tungsten spear with barbs, and pays out a carbon-fiber line 1km long behind it. It would keep the target from being able to jump (because of reasons) and it'd guarantee one party or the other would die in a fight and keep the range close the whole time.

I want a great big plasma arc that goes across the front of my ship, which I can turn on right before I ram someone. It would then slice them in half.

I want a computer virus injector cannon that randomly fritzes systems, or makes the target's onboard computer bluescreen to a Windows 3300 prompt. Close range only.

I want to be able to deploy a low-volume inflateable decoy that looks like a deathstar and has a comparable radar signature.

 

[ChubbyBunneh]

I want a Nommer that fits on the larger ships. In combat the Nommer opens like big jaws and your smaller target gets sucked inside.

Once you've nommed them, hoses pump sleeping gas into the captured ship. Then you can subject your victim to some alien probing before releasing them.

 

[Daisuke-kun]

Wish there are slag wire that can be use in SC. This will be used on transport only and if they think they are being followed by a ship at their six o' clock that is trying to interdict them. Only one unit per utility slot and what it does is, when launched from behind (is not targeted, just drops it behind them) and the wire wraps it around any ship that is behind it and happens to be intersect it. The weight of the wire and the speed of the ship will slag it out of SC. If the wire have made no contact within 15 seconds, it will disappear (dropping out of SC). Of course, there will be a lot of people oppose this idea, including pirates and griefers.

 

[Heracles]

other tactical type weapons would be fun... like radiation clouds,,,, energy nets,,, EMP mines and missles.... Its not all about dps and I do hope the devs make weapons lioke these to make combat more skillfull and interesting..

Sounds interesting! EMP for sure!

I applaud FD for the variety of "game" weapons available. Reading all the specs and trying them out is great fun.

Given the current ships capabilities and the opponent's we currently face, I think the mix is about right.

However, anyone remember those Thargoids? A mother ship interdiction, given the current stage of our weapons development, would mean RUN! Certainly in solo play.

Back in the '80's, we had the Military Laser as top kit and you could drop quite a few Thargoids with them before they spawned their little droid killers. (Super fast agile killer droids that keep on shooting until they kill you or you kill them, yes David and Ian invented the Borg in 1985!) Once that one mother ship became twenty, your number was quite frankly up commander, better get that Rem lock working or run!

So back to the EMP idea.

Remember the Energy Bomb! Now that was the only weapon you could use to fight Thargoids. Similar to current day EMP.

So I suppose what I would like to see are Thargoids nothing like a galactic arms race to spice things up?

 

[Roboute Gulliman]

While we are at this topic.....
Anyone found any overcharged/Focused/Low heat wepaons ?

 

[AtheosisX]

Currently running five plasma accelerators on my Python.

Just because.

I guess money isn't a concern for you lol...

 

[Pilot in red shirt]

Good point but when those 4 multicannons start hitting up close and personal it's just SO much fun to listen to all the noise and watch bits flying off the other ship!
.

 

[Goilveig]

This frustrates me. Please, tell me I'm wrong. Based on what I'm reading and from my own in-game tests... I already have the best set up, and there isn't a reason to upgrade weapons. None. DPS, Cost, overall effectiveness... What I'm reading and experiencing tells me that I would be best served, against all targets, with 2 beams and 4 multi-cannons.. or POSSIBLY cannons if I'm doing the anaconda hunting missions.

Actually, there are very good reasons to use pulse lasers instead of beam on many types of fights.

Beam gives you the most burst damage, but pulse gives you the most sustained damage, because it's the laser that has the best efficiency at converting capacitor energy into damage. In a long fight where you don't fully recharge your capacitor, the primary limit on damage is available energy. On short fights where you can regenerate between targets, or where you only briefly have the target in your sights followed by periods where you can't hit them, beam wins, but on sustained attacks without regular opportunity for full capacitor recharge, pulse wins.