Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[tagos]

There's very little point in doing that, killing NPCs in open isn't tricky, it also doesn't require risking a massive investment. However there may well be bounty hunters switching to solo to hunt in relative peace, still feels a bit cheaty though doesn't it? I think he hit the nail on the head with this (clearly getting benefits of open, with explicit avoidance of open risks)

It doesn't matter what you're doing in solo, if you go there to make money then come back to open once you have a better ship then you're taking an unfair advantage of the game mechanics. I'm not telling anyone how to play, just saying, it is unfair, it does give you an advantage.

So what if it does, although quite what this advantage is, as the statistical likelihood of me encountering them in a huge Galaxy split into instances filled by geography and ping criteria is probably zero, I don't know?

And should lightning strike it would only count if we were fighting.

Basically what this hypothetical person affects me as much as if he were playing solitaire.

Not that I'd care in the slightest if this wasn't true given that I didn't buy the game for and was paying him to play.

It's simply none of mine or your business and it is palpably absurd to say playing the game as intended is in any way, shape or form cheating.

And just for the record, life isn't 'fair' and even if it was it wouldn't conform to your or my definition so don't use that as a basis. People are playing as they want and that's fine.

 

[kapitankev]

So what if it does, although quite what this advantage is, as the statistical likelihood of me encountering them in a huge Galaxy split into instances filled by geography and ping criteria is probably zero, I don't know?

And should lightning strike it would only count if we were fighting.

Basically what this hypothetical person affects me as much as if he were playing solitaire.

Not that I'd care in the slightest if this wasn't true given that I didn't buy the game for and was paying him to play.

It's simply none of mine or your business and it is palpably absurd to say playing the game as intended is in any way, shape or form cheating.

And just for the record, life isn't 'fair' and even if it was it wouldn't conform to your or my definition so don't use that as a basis. People are playing as they want and that's fine.

The advantage :

I'd like to own a python one day, when I get the python I'm certain to pirate other players. To get the python I'll need to trade. Now, If I intend to kill other players when I get the python it seems only fair that while I trade I provide a target for other pirates. This is the essence of "fairness" it's not subjective. Hence my and a few other people comparing it to combat logging..morally, it's weak and shows a lack of skill,pride, an honour sir!

A question....say i track interdict you, shoot you up, you escape...make it back to the station......I'm waiting outside.

What's your position on the player in the station, quitting the game reloading in a different instance or solo?

 

[Eisdrache]

I think so too, kapitankev

 

[Phier]

Ancient Wisdom and ED, Single player Vrs Multiplayer Ancient Wisdom and ED, Single player Vrs Multip

A Man and his son were once going with their Donkey to market. As they were walking along by its side a countryman passed them and said: "You fools, what is a Donkey for but to ride upon?"

So the Man put the Boy on the Donkey and they went on their way. But soon they passed a group of men, one of whom said: "See that lazy youngster, he lets his father walk while he rides."

So the Man ordered his Boy to get off, and got on himself. But they hadn't gone far when they passed two women, one of whom said to the other: "Shame on that lazy lout to let his poor little son trudge along."

Well, the Man didn't know what to do, but at last he took his Boy up before him on the Donkey. By this time they had come to the town, and the passers-by began to jeer and point at them. The Man stopped and asked what they were scoffing at. The men said:"Aren't you ashamed of yourself for overloading that poor donkey of yours and your hulking son?"

The Man and Boy got off and tried to think what to do. They thought and they thought, till at last they cut down a pole, tied the donkey's feet to it, and raised the pole and the donkey to their shoulders. They went along amid the laughter of all who met them till they came to Market Bridge, when the Donkey, getting one of his feet loose, kicked out and caused the Boy to drop his end of the pole. In the struggle the Donkey fell over the bridge, and his fore-feet being tied together he was drowned.

That will teach you," said an old man who had followed them:

This is where I feel Elite Dangerous is heading. We have this odd multiplayer/solo/group play option thing, where all are intertwined and yet completely separate. We have people that want players to shape the universe somewhat ala EvE, which for all the whining by some people is a good thing. We have people that want basically nothing to do with that and would rather a solo game. And we have people who still think somehow we can do both well.

Personally I think this pleasing two playstyles at the same time is going to end up pleasing neither. Right now as a solo game its way to shallow to enjoy long term for most people (and I feel very confident using most even if you don't fall into that). As a mutliplayer game the p2p nature, the ability to combat log, the possible hacks, and the ability to simply switch to solo back and forth makes its a pretty poor multiplayer game.

So we are left with pretty much nothing to do but get bigger ships which have really nothing to do after a while but bother each other. FD is going to need to pick a side here, either increase solo/coop play content or increase multiplayer content but doing both at this stage is going to end up with a dead donkey.

 

[Robert Maynard]

What's your position on the player in the station, quitting the game reloading in a different instance or solo?

It's no different (from the perspective of the camper) to the same player docking then quitting the game for the night.

 

[Sav112]

Quick question! Solo and Open play.

Sorry quick question. I have the game in the FD store after backing it on KS but due to a it came out the ark 2004 Build Pc and not updating to a new rig later when win 10 drops.


Question: Can you play solo player trading away more or less safe and build up credits only having to deal with lets face it a lot less threatening NPC and Explore and Mine away. Then take your credits and ship and switch in to open play?

Surly that can’t be fair to those progressing only in open play with the threat of real human interactions making it a lot more riskier. Playing Pirate in open play must be NPC mostly as what on God’s Earth (in Sol) would make you make a trade run in open play, you’d have to be nuts unless you decided you were simply going to play one way and that is open….. I actually thought Solo and Open were simply two separate paths you could play but that would not cross over or be able to jump from one side of the coin to the other. Being an original player on the good old BBC model B I’ve always wanted to play elite online with others it was the dream back then as twelve year old and I don’t think I’d want to play anything other than open for the real full on experience. I understand Elite is more about playing and progressing at your own pace with the only challenger being yourself really. But its when someone has played in solo built up experience, credits and the mother of all ships that then switches over to open and is able to then bring down hell on other human players that may have only played open al the way I find a bit unfair.


Surly a Solo Tax on trading and lower rewards given to exploration done in solo’s more protective blanket. I'm sure there has been a long discussion about this in some far distant space port forum but I must have missed it and the justification for allowing this cross over.

 

[Eisdrache]

Sure there is a difference. Being able to escape via solo or group universe renders a siege pointless.

If talking about single players that might not have much impact. But later in the game when possibly fleets have formed up to hunt other fleets it spoils tactics.

Let's say there is a group of pirates harassing a system. The legit traders and sort form a fleet to hunt them down and manage to force them to retreat, e.g. into a station.

Now, in a single universe the system would be safe as long as the "policeforce" patrols the station. That would either lead to safer travels or to a massive battle when the pirates decide to make a sally. Should be a lot of excitement.

In our split universe, the rogue fleet planeshifts into it's group universe, meets elsewhere and is able to start their harassment again, without having to fight for their escape.

Imho the war between Band of Brothers and Goonswarm in EVE would not have become that big and famous if such cheating would have been possible.

 

[Cody]

<sighs sadly>

 

[Lerche]

Yes you could do that.
There are no differences between you "offline" and open profile.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Eisdrache, the thing you are forgetting is that ED is not about 'big battles' between players. Such large scale battles are handled by the NPC factions in the background simulation. ED is all about one man in his ship against the galaxy, with no fleets or guilds to help him.

 

[Cody]

Have a little read - here!

 

[Joe Spivey]

In before the merge into the black hole.

 

[SlickReed]

Yes you can make credits in solo and use those credits to open.

 

[Commander Edison]

Don't panic when it happens, but you're about to be cast into the eternal darkness of the solo vs open vs groups thread.

On the bright side, the thread contains many insightful posts on why what you've described isn't a problem. Read and enjoy!

 

[Robert Maynard]

Sure there is a difference. Being able to escape via solo or group universe renders a siege pointless.

If talking about single players that might not have much impact. But later in the game when possibly fleets have formed up to hunt other fleets it spoils tactics.

Let's say there is a group of pirates harassing a system. The legit traders and sort form a fleet to hunt them down and manage to force them to retreat, e.g. into a station.

Now, in a single universe the system would be safe as long as the "policeforce" patrols the station. That would either lead to safer travels or to a massive battle when the pirates decide to make a sally. Should be a lot of excitement.

In our split universe, the rogue fleet planeshifts into it's group universe, meets elsewhere and is able to start their harassment again, without having to fight for their escape.

Imho the war between Band of Brothers and Goonswarm in EVE would not have become that big and famous if such cheating would have been possible.

How many players do you expect it would take to lay siege to a single system? With an instance limit of 32, other players could easily simply pass by any blockade in a separate instance in the same region.

Wings are just about to be introduced - with a maximum of 4 players. Fleets go beyond what is known of Frontier's vision for the game by a significant margin, indeed, DBOBE commented on Clans / Guilds at EGX 2014 and was recently interviewed by The Escapist (see page 3).

There is a single galactic background simulation which is shared between the three game modes. The modes themselves are simply different settings of the matchmaking system.

If the game had been designed from the outset to rely on player conflict then your points regarding the downside to the game modes would have some merit, however the game has not been designed to promote player conflict, more to encourage co-operation. Simply put, if players do not like the situation they find themselves in in open then there is nothing stopping them group switching to another of the game modes.

Using the group switching feature to move between the game modes, as we are allowed, is not cheating - cheating involves breaking rules, not using features that we have all been given.

 

[Sav112]

Cheers Lerche!


And why I will only be playing open play to spice it up. Waited thirty years to play in an elite gaming world full of human players and I've got a lot of players to meet up with.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Have a little read - here!

Cheers! Oh dear thats a thread and a half to read. Blame Kate AKA commander Angel Rose for touching on it for too quick on her stream for me to say " You say what now" with regards to being able to switch from one side of the coin to the other.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Can't believe OP has been posting since mid december and he doesn't know about the Solo/Open thing.

 

[StephenB]

Solo - Play by yourself uninterrupted by any other being. Essentially easy mode and for those who enjoy a relaxing game to wind down or have a bad internet connection.

Open - Play with others. You will get attacked by roleplayers and by those who simply want to kill as many as they can for no reason. You sign up for this experience the moment you click that button. Much more interesting and fraught with danger.

Group - Play with a group of players that fit your style of play. Exist peacefully with interaction from others (Depending on what group you join).

Players being allowed to swap game-modes does not make for a poor multiplayer game.

A lot of people get upset that you can swap game modes yet it isn't even an issue. How does someone switching game-modes affect others? If it's because of players working uninterrupted for bigger ships then joining into open then that's a silly excuse since plenty of players have massive ships already and billions due to balancing issues and bugged refunds. Players swapping back and forth have no affect on you or multiplayer as there will always be players with better ships and players who stick only to open.

Combat logging is getting sorted by FD who have a firm standing against combat logging.

Hacks exist in every game and are also being looked into.

I don't quite understand what you want FD to do? You say they need to choose a side but there are no sides to choose since the only difference between Solo and Open is player interaction. They are slowly adding more content to the game which affects both solo and open, I don't see how they can choose sides?. If you are asking FD to develop only for solo or only for Open then you are essentially asking FD to kill their game since the uproar from the community affected by the loss of attention would be really bad and the bad publicity from it would deter most potential players from joining their game.

I do agree with your point that the game is shallow at the moment. More content is on the way but until then there is very little to do that isn't mindless grinding. The game was released too early in my opinion as a lot of the features mentioned in development still have to be created. Wings, I feel, should have been included on release so the game should not have released until that was ready.

All FD should do at this point is add more content, work on finding a reliable way of catching combat loggers/hackers and continue balancing their game which is what they are doing. They will never please everyone but the game definitely won't end up like a dead donkey if they continue this way.

 

[Sav112]

Trying to catch up on this as I thought Solo and Open were kept apart.

Using the group switching feature to move between the game modes, as we are allowed, is not cheating - cheating involves breaking rules, not using features that we have all been given.
I suppose it would be stupid not learning the game first on Solo before venturing out into open but once I do I’m keeping to open no matter.


I did just post this in another thread!

Sorry quick question. I have the game in the FD store after backing it on KS but due to a it came out the ark 2004 Build Pc and not updating to a new rig later when win 10 drops.


Question: Can you play solo player trading away more or less safe and build up credits only having to deal with lets face it a lot less threatening NPC and Explore and Mine away. Then take your credits and ship and switch in to open play?

Surly that can’t be fair to those progressing only in open play with the threat of real human interactions making it a lot more riskier. Playing Pirate in open play must be NPC mostly as what on God’s Earth (in Sol) would make you make a trade run in open play, you’d have to be nuts unless you decided you were simply going to play one way and that is open….. I actually thought Solo and Open were simply two separate paths you could play but that would not cross over or be able to jump from one side of the coin to the other. Being an original player on the good old BBC model B I’ve always wanted to play elite online with others it was the dream back then as twelve year old and I don’t think I’d want to play anything other than open for the real full on experience. I understand Elite is more about playing and progressing at your own pace with the only challenger being yourself really. But its when someone has played in solo built up experience, credits and the mother of all ships that then switches over to open and is able to then bring down hell on other human players that may have only played open al the way I find a bit unfair.


Surly a Solo Tax on trading and lower rewards given to exploration done in solo’s more protective blanket. I'm sure there has been a long discussion about this in some far distant space port forum but I must have missed it and the justification for allowing this cross over.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Thread merged.