The Physics of Spaceship - "Shields"

@Bounder....

Nice post, I enjoyed reading it. I've got a possible solution too...

Microwaves!

This technology already exists as well and I know that the American military have been experimenting with this technology.. You can read about it below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/defense/dtap/weapons/ch100309.htm

Now, if you could surround your ship with a microwave defense mechanism then maybe it is possible to block any incoming external forms of energy regardless of whether the energy originates from a missile, laser or plasma. Call it a Multi Function Counter Measures System if you like (MFCM)

Enemy Laser Fire could be stopped because the heat that your microwaves produce would counteract the heat from the laser..

Enemy Plasma Fire would have a similar effect.

Enemy missiles and torpedo's would simply blow up or be deactivated because the heat from the microwaves would fry the electronics inside.

I've only just found this information out but I'll research it a bit more and post my findings here later on.....

If any of you physics nuts wish to comment then please feel free to do so.
 
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If any of you physics nuts wish to comment then please feel free to do so.

I'm not a "physics nut", but the problem with energy emission shields (like microwaves) is that they would not deplete. They would be up as long as they have energy, and the emitters are functioning... that may sound cool, but it's not functioning from a game play standpoint, since attacks should actually weaken defenses, not the other way around.

My best guess for the technology behind shields that is NOT reliant on gravitation manipulation, would be magnetic barriers/shields with an ion or photon coating... especially because they are already in development.
 
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That includes me.

Count me in too.


I think what people have got to understand is that the Elite series of games has always tried to achieve things using feasible solutions based on real physics. That's what makes it different from all the other space games out there. It is up to FD and us lot to some extent to try and come up with a solution to justify a certain type of effect/function in the game. This is what I love about these forums. People coming up with ideas to solve problems.
 
ITER uses EM shielding to avoid plasma as hot as the sun to touch the inner walls of the Tokamak.

Then trick is to invert the deal as the ship needs the shields around it, not contain anything.

I would use quantum entanglement. Inside the ship will be a QPE or Quantum Particle Entangler. What it does is it creates highly charged particles within a sort of Tokamak. The device entangles particles that are then emitted by emitter arrays or CPE's, Charged Particle Emitters.

Basically you entangle particles and shoot out one of the pair out from the ship. How far the shield is formed outside the ship is controlled by controlling the particles using spin resonance. There is a fall off when particles lose their energy and at that point they disappear.

As long as the QPE has energy to create particles and entangle them, that is, a working power plant or quickly dischargable accumulators, the shields will remain up. The QPE would have a maximum output rate depending on quality and design.

:D
 
Some basic thoughts on the fizzix of shields..

You'd need different techs for the various things you'd want to shield against.

For heat shields, ablatives are good. These are generally fairly low-density materials designed such that they insulate, while sacrificing their outer layers which are blasted and/or vapourised away, removing the excess heat with the shed matter. The best of these by far has to be a special type of plastic dubbed Starlite, created by an Englishman named Maurice Ward. The truly incredible properties of this material has been attributed (by Jane's International Defence review) to a 'reactive armour' plasma type effect; being entirely passive, the efficacy of the shield seems to depend only on the amount of energy thrown at it - the more you heat it, the more heat-resistant it gets.

This brings us to another good type of shield, then, plasma - however it's generated. Besides dealing with heat, a plasma could also ionise particulate matter. One popularly-cited form of shielding for high speed space flight is based on a large plasma bubble, contained by magnetic fields emanating from the ship, and extending some distance in front of it - perhaps some kilometers. This could effectively turn problematic high-velocity dust grains into relatively harmless puffs of smoke, before they strike the ship's hull, not unlike an icebreaker clearing its own path through the pack ice.

Beyond these types of environmental protection, a magnetically-contained plasma can also shield against some types of weapons fire - specifically, small projectiles (as described above, if exaggerated slightly), as well as plasma bolts, and also laser fire - this by modulating the plasma's pulse rate to offset the phase of the incoming beam, effectively cancelling its energy.

So, bashically, plasmas, and their control systems, are a handy catch-all technology that could defend against a broad variety of insults...


As others have mentioned though, sub-atomic KE, AKA radioactivity, is harder to protect against... what you really need is high density material, to increase the chances of high-velocity ions hitting a shield particle before they hit you or your hardware. Lead is obviously the de facto no. 1 choice, being very dense and stable. Water has been mooted as a more practical alternative, making up for its lower density with its greater utility in regards to life support systems and so forth. However this is one type of hazard that plasmas would seem fairly useless for, owing to their low density.

So in short, plasmas are a good general purpose shield, and ditto materials that form plasmas when assaulted. But radiation protection really needs a high-density barrier, to filter out the sub-atomic buzzbombs that'd breeze through thinner materials.

Lastly, it has to be admitted that relativistic speeds (and remember 26c and higher is already confirmed for cruise mode) will basically turn the ambient background radiation into super-killer alpha particles from hell. The net radiation from all stars in the sky will be shifted up into a maelstrom of cosmic rays, it'd be like bathing in a constant beam of gamma ray bursts.. You'd be fried in seconds. The half-lives of any unstable environmental elements will shrink in relation to you and your ship, and anything even slightly radioactive will seem hotter than plutonium. I'm not aware of any ideas to tackle this last hazard, and mile-thick lead hulls probably aren't very practical.. probably best to just not think about it?

Nice post I liked reading it too :) Almost handwavium with a moderate amount of what seems plausible. But how do they work? (sorry only joking).

Ablative armour is something that's used in real-world tanks, and also in the realm of sci-fi (remember Deep-space-9's super-warship the Defiance? That had ablative armour).

I'm wondering how the whole trekkie thing of Enterprise (polarise the hull-plating!) is meant to work? Sci-fi-jargon! Polarising it how? Make it positive so any positron beams fired at it get repulsed?

Nah the whole "shield" thing is a projective shield in sci-fi, and on the whole, I'm still not seeing how it would work. Ok assuming someone's firing plasma rounds at you, you have to dissapate that energy somehow, or redirect and redistribute the energy throughout the hypothetical space-ship shield. How would that work? Some sort of directed magnetic field that would disperse the energy bolt fired at it by looping it about the place?

What about beam weapons? Those are more problematic, as effectively, its a death-ray/ directed thermal weapon with which a force-field generated field makes no sense - how would it stop it?

I'm trying to get real-worldy with sci-fi topics, because, in the end, sci-fi is just science thats extrapolated, so in the end, there's still science to be learned and discovered and invented.
 
ITER uses EM shielding to avoid plasma as hot as the sun to touch the inner walls of the Tokamak.

Then trick is to invert the deal as the ship needs the shields around it, not contain anything.

I would use quantum entanglement. Inside the ship will be a QPE or Quantum Particle Entangler. What it does is it creates highly charged particles within a sort of Tokamak. The device entangles particles that are then emitted by emitter arrays or CPE's, Charged Particle Emitters.

Basically you entangle particles and shoot out one of the pair out from the ship. How far the shield is formed outside the ship is controlled by controlling the particles using spin resonance. There is a fall off when particles lose their energy and at that point they disappear.

As long as the QPE has energy to create particles and entangle them, that is, a working power plant or quickly dischargable accumulators, the shields will remain up. The QPE would have a maximum output rate depending on quality and design.

:D

WOW! Some really interesting stuff there Variform. Most of what you are talking about is beyond me I'm afraid but if you think that this is feasible then I suggest you e-mail DB with your solution.

Hopefully now FD will be able to justify having shields on your ship using real science. This is just great, another problem solved! (hopefully)
 
ITER uses EM shielding to avoid plasma as hot as the sun to touch the inner walls of the Tokamak.

Yet the inner walls still need to be the toughest substance known to man as any non-charged particles will ignore the magnetic containment and bombard the inner walls of the plasma. In fact this is the single biggest problem facing ITER at the moment - inventing materials that will withstand high energy bombardment by neutrons without leaking cold matter into the plasma and ruining the fusion reaction.

Actually, ITER also has massive cost overrun problems at the moment, but on the tech side it's the internal heat shielding that is most urgent ;)

The best handwavium I've seen so far is the suspended plasma shield suggested by Bounder. This nicely fits with shields glowing when they're hit. Normally plasma isn't very visible, it's only when it interacts with other matter that you see a glow from the other particles getting excited. One can extend this to laser beams causing excitations in the plasma, or messing with the energy variations within the plasma making it interact with itself.
 
Yet the inner walls still need to be the toughest substance known to man as any non-charged particles will ignore the magnetic containment and bombard the inner walls of the plasma. In fact this is the single biggest problem facing ITER at the moment - inventing materials that will withstand high energy bombardment by neutrons without leaking cold matter into the plasma and ruining the fusion reaction.

Actually, ITER also has massive cost overrun problems at the moment, but on the tech side it's the internal heat shielding that is most urgent ;)

The best handwavium I've seen so far is the suspended plasma shield suggested by Bounder. This nicely fits with shields glowing when they're hit. Normally plasma isn't very visible, it's only when it interacts with other matter that you see a glow from the other particles getting excited. One can extend this to laser beams causing excitations in the plasma, or messing with the energy variations within the plasma making it interact with itself.

He's talking about berylium blankets now ;)

Yep specially graded steel with diverters and berylium alloys (for improving material effectiveness against neutron hardening).

We are "diverting" (pun intended) off topic.
 
Actually, ITER also has massive cost overrun problems at the moment, but on the tech side it's the internal heat shielding that is most urgent ;)

Ah I see you are keeping up with this stuff. Every now and then I check the website for some news.

The best handwavium I've seen so far is the suspended plasma shield suggested by Bounder. This nicely fits with shields glowing when they're hit. Normally plasma isn't very visible, it's only when it interacts with other matter that you see a glow from the other particles getting excited. One can extend this to laser beams causing excitations in the plasma, or messing with the energy variations within the plasma making it interact with itself.

The thing I love the most about that video is actually the part where one of the Sidewinders get hit. The shield flares up bright. That is absolutely gorgeous. And I just saw a little while ago what choices they are making concerning shields. :eek:

I noticed Handwavium being used a lot here. Is that a byproduct of creating Unobtainium? :)
 
I had read somewhere (I can not remember the magazine) that there is no better than excrement for protecting of cosmic rays. They said that for large space travel, they could papering inner walls of spaceships with plastic bags filled with the excrement of astronauts

I am NOT flying in poop-ships! :p
 
Not only that. I will have to buy all kinds of additional modules like air purification system and I don't even want to talk about incidents if micro meteorite will penetrate my ship's hull... No thanks! I'll stick to a good old titanium hull frame.
 
@Bounder....

Nice post, I enjoyed reading it. I've got a possible solution too...

Microwaves!

This technology already exists as well and I know that the American military have been experimenting with this technology.. You can read about it below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/defense/dtap/weapons/ch100309.htm

Now, if you could surround your ship with a microwave defense mechanism then maybe it is possible to block any incoming external forms of energy regardless of whether the energy originates from a missile, laser or plasma. Call it a Multi Function Counter Measures System if you like (MFCM)

Enemy Laser Fire could be stopped because the heat that your microwaves produce would counteract the heat from the laser..

Enemy Plasma Fire would have a similar effect.

Enemy missiles and torpedo's would simply blow up or be deactivated because the heat from the microwaves would fry the electronics inside.

I've only just found this information out but I'll research it a bit more and post my findings here later on.....

If any of you physics nuts wish to comment then please feel free to do so.

have you heard of the faraday cage?
 
@Bounder....

Nice post, I enjoyed reading it. I've got a possible solution too...

Microwaves!

This technology already exists as well and I know that the American military have been experimenting with this technology.. You can read about it below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/defense/dtap/weapons/ch100309.htm

Now, if you could surround your ship with a microwave defense mechanism then maybe it is possible to block any incoming external forms of energy regardless of whether the energy originates from a missile, laser or plasma. Call it a Multi Function Counter Measures System if you like (MFCM)

Enemy Laser Fire could be stopped because the heat that your microwaves produce would counteract the heat from the laser..

Enemy Plasma Fire would have a similar effect.

Enemy missiles and torpedo's would simply blow up or be deactivated because the heat from the microwaves would fry the electronics inside.

I've only just found this information out but I'll research it a bit more and post my findings here later on.....

If any of you physics nuts wish to comment then please feel free to do so.

My passangers/cargo supposed to be delivered undamaged/fresh not COOKED! :p
 
i remember hearing somewhere on line that massively powerful magnetic fields are the nearest "real life" extrapolation of shields that we can ever hope for .... better not have any fillings in yer gob if youre a pilot lol :)
 
I had read somewhere (I can not remember the magazine) that there is no better than excrement for protecting of cosmic rays. They said that for large space travel, they could papering inner walls of spaceships with plastic bags filled with the excrement of astronauts

New Scientist old boy - always the best place in my view to read science stories before they are misquoted in other publications not least as NS interview directly etc.

http://www.newscientist.com/article...aut-poo-as-radiation-shield.html#.UndphfmSR8E
 
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