Apart from the obvious lack of profit... why would I ever pirate a machine spamming the same lines over and over with the exactly same AI behaviour every time???
Ideas for 'fixing' Piracy
- Thread starter Anopheles
- Start date
they can. they just choose not to.
Let's not turn this into an ethics of piracy topic, we have an endless supply of those threads already.
You will also notice that a great deal of the suggestions made result in the pc trader surviving piracy and not losing as much of his time and effort.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - piracy exists in-game - let's keep the thread on the OP's topic, please.
also bounty should be harder to get rid of.
don't get me wrong, i'm the first who want to be a pirate, but atm it doesn't make sense, still learning the game mechanics.
but imao, there should be 2 bounty stash:
1 for npc interactions, that you can pay off like currently.
a second one, for anything involving players (murder etc...) that you cannot pay off (or only under very specific and rather hard conditions)
other players would see only one bounty on you, which is the addition of both.
InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
I vote for a "criminal record":
A list of illegal activities that the player was reported for. Depending on the activity, the player gets a bounty, which can indeed be cleared - but the criminal status stays in the data bank and only appears after a significant amount of time without "repeat offenses". This process can be accelerated by running charity missions from the bulletin boards (those that don't give you profit, just reputation).
Criminal status can be something like:
-Smuggling: The player was scanned and caught with illegal cargo at a starport. The cargo was then confiscated and the player got a fine he had to clear. Smuggling goes onto his criminal record.
-Loitering
-Cargo dumping: This was illegal in Elite 2 and 3. Jettisoning cargo in the vicinity of a starport results in an individual fine for every single ton of cargo dropped. Some types of cargo, such as explosives or toxic waste, give you an even larger individual fine.
-Assault: Results in a bounty on your head. Triggered when you repeatedly hit someone with your weapons.
-Piracy: Bounty on your head. Destroying the cargo hatch during an assault or using a limpet adds the "piracy" status to your "assault" record and increases the bounty significantly. If the comm system at some point in the future allows for hotkeyed, hardcoded messages such as "Give me cargo or die", the use of such a comm message could automatically result in "piracy" status as well.
-Murder: Killing any target that is NOT WANTED in the system you are currently in. Creates a very large bounty on your head, depending on the wealth of the system faction in control, and also depending on the faction type.
Here are some ideas about bounties:
Not all of them can be cleared by paying them off. Piracy, Smuggling and Murder require you to run special missions for the local system authority force, found not on the bulletin board, but under contacts: local security.
Smugglers need to find and put down other smugglers to clear their name.
Pirates need to hunt down other pirates to clear their name.
Murderers need to assassinate a wanted criminal in an Elite Anaconda to clear their name.
No monetary rewards.
Otherwise their bounties cannot be payed off and stay with them everywhere they go.
The only alternative is running charity missions from the bulletin board, which takes longer, as one of those missions won't be enough to boost your reputation so that your criminal status gets wiped.
Just some couple ideas I had during breakfast
Feel free to discuss, dismiss, or tell me what you think about it.
A list of illegal activities that the player was reported for. Depending on the activity, the player gets a bounty, which can indeed be cleared - but the criminal status stays in the data bank and only appears after a significant amount of time without "repeat offenses". This process can be accelerated by running charity missions from the bulletin boards (those that don't give you profit, just reputation).
Criminal status can be something like:
-Smuggling: The player was scanned and caught with illegal cargo at a starport. The cargo was then confiscated and the player got a fine he had to clear. Smuggling goes onto his criminal record.
-Loitering
-Cargo dumping: This was illegal in Elite 2 and 3. Jettisoning cargo in the vicinity of a starport results in an individual fine for every single ton of cargo dropped. Some types of cargo, such as explosives or toxic waste, give you an even larger individual fine.
-Assault: Results in a bounty on your head. Triggered when you repeatedly hit someone with your weapons.
-Piracy: Bounty on your head. Destroying the cargo hatch during an assault or using a limpet adds the "piracy" status to your "assault" record and increases the bounty significantly. If the comm system at some point in the future allows for hotkeyed, hardcoded messages such as "Give me cargo or die", the use of such a comm message could automatically result in "piracy" status as well.
-Murder: Killing any target that is NOT WANTED in the system you are currently in. Creates a very large bounty on your head, depending on the wealth of the system faction in control, and also depending on the faction type.
Here are some ideas about bounties:
Not all of them can be cleared by paying them off. Piracy, Smuggling and Murder require you to run special missions for the local system authority force, found not on the bulletin board, but under contacts: local security.
Smugglers need to find and put down other smugglers to clear their name.
Pirates need to hunt down other pirates to clear their name.
Murderers need to assassinate a wanted criminal in an Elite Anaconda to clear their name.
No monetary rewards.
Otherwise their bounties cannot be payed off and stay with them everywhere they go.
The only alternative is running charity missions from the bulletin board, which takes longer, as one of those missions won't be enough to boost your reputation so that your criminal status gets wiped.
Just some couple ideas I had during breakfast
Feel free to discuss, dismiss, or tell me what you think about it.
I must agree with this, I did try limpets out, my first one I was very lucky with it - it locked on and dumped half the cargo from a T9 (Talk about Jackpot !) - Since then, 3 to 4 limpets for about 10T of cargo.
So yes, tweaking them could go a long way to helping out.
Lack of profit ??
Unless your stealing 1T of cheap cargo per ship and taking a beating each time - how do you fail to make a profit from free goods? (and if that is the case, you're in the wrong line of work here).
I jumped in to a "Seeking" marker, shot out the cargo holds from all 3 Type 9s there and took as much as my ship would hold, without my shields ever going offline - using only lasers (no ammo costs) - 100% Profit, no expenses. My 2nd "Seeking" I went to, 1 of the Type 9s was an opposing faction to the other 2 (yes, they were fighting)... I just sat back and took all the loot when the one losing lost its hold... free loot and didn't even have to fire my guns.
Sitting at a Nav beacon takes longer, but you can do the same, as long as you cargo scan and pick the decent cargos (doing this near a good place to sell is handy) and don't over stay at one point due to random police scans and bounty hunter scans.
I honestly fail to see how you cannot make money being a pirate versus NPCs - plus, they fight harder than humans and don't give in, so it can be more of a challenge to steal from NPCs knowing they don't back down and they will come back for anything they lost when you shot out the hatch.
This game is as advertised - you can be a trader, you can be a bounty hunter, you can be a pirate - all without ever seeing another human player.
Could the game do with some more content - sure, but for the most part, you can do it all and make money doing it.
[Note: I do not earn as much as I can in my Type 7 doing a 14Ly jump between 2 stations (120k each way profit) - but taking from NPCs is way more fun.]
Random murder is done by bored players. Lets face it, if they had something else to do they would.
The random killer is also a leaving player. Its the last ditch effort for him to get something out of the game before leaving.
Also, I dont believe that making piracy hurt traders less by offering them insurance will change anything.
Traders will always complain about pirates and vice versa. As long as solo mode exists piracy against players will forever be a conflict zone.
Player pirates will always hunt player targets. They are just more engaging than any npc drone. Especially as long as they arent tied to the gameworld.
Why arent they dominantly carrying metals and minerals in an extraction/refinary systen? Why arent they dominantly carrying Electronic components in a High Tech system etc.
Its completely random with npc's. And its surprising how many just carry Toxic Waste. Thats why player pirates will prefer player targets.
Both for profit, but also for sport.
The random killer is also a leaving player. Its the last ditch effort for him to get something out of the game before leaving.
Also, I dont believe that making piracy hurt traders less by offering them insurance will change anything.
Traders will always complain about pirates and vice versa. As long as solo mode exists piracy against players will forever be a conflict zone.
Player pirates will always hunt player targets. They are just more engaging than any npc drone. Especially as long as they arent tied to the gameworld.
Why arent they dominantly carrying metals and minerals in an extraction/refinary systen? Why arent they dominantly carrying Electronic components in a High Tech system etc.
Its completely random with npc's. And its surprising how many just carry Toxic Waste. Thats why player pirates will prefer player targets.
Both for profit, but also for sport.
So you have no sources backing this up. Good to know.
You're confusing murder and the death penalty btw. You don't get murdered for loitering forever in a station, you get convicted and the death penalty.
You also get fined for many, many things without being attacked at the same time. I don't get how you don't know this.
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Yes, lack of profit. No NPC will ever abandon(!) you 30t of palladium (max scoopable) nicely sitting next to each other (sometimes way too nicely...).
And it's 2015 man. Why would I want to play singleplayer game with no modding support? If ED had no multiplayer functionality it would be losing playerbase really hard. It's not 1984 anymore. Gamers are way too demanding and the name of the game is social interaction.
Traders generate content for us pirates. We generate content for bounty hunters (and vice versa to certain extend). FD doesn't need to hire hundreds of quest writters, scripters and what not. This is to me an ideal scenario FD should pursue.
Call it what it is and give options.....
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Pirates to be given "WANTED" notices...........but would'nt it be great if you could disable them, and call in the feds......turn them in, non lethal like...............and this could be an option for those "Pirates" who have clearly indicated their intention to play the part.........Cargo demands, not attacking the unarmed or empty, etc.....
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Murderers, (cuz that's what some "Pirates" are)...should be given Wanted DEAD OR ALIVE Bounties, and these could be reserved for people who fire on the unarmed, or those who ahev dropped cargo...or....etc.........
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If they want to play the bad boy...thats cool.....but bad boys need to be slapped down.....give us that option........
.
Pirates to be given "WANTED" notices...........but would'nt it be great if you could disable them, and call in the feds......turn them in, non lethal like...............and this could be an option for those "Pirates" who have clearly indicated their intention to play the part.........Cargo demands, not attacking the unarmed or empty, etc.....
.
Murderers, (cuz that's what some "Pirates" are)...should be given Wanted DEAD OR ALIVE Bounties, and these could be reserved for people who fire on the unarmed, or those who ahev dropped cargo...or....etc.........
.
If they want to play the bad boy...thats cool.....but bad boys need to be slapped down.....give us that option........
The problem with number 1 is there's now even less reason for the trader to not just try and run. At least with no cargo insurance they have the incentive to stop, otherwise that's a hold full of cargo that's going up in flames. With insurance I can just boost, boost, boost. If I pop, hell, I'm insured and the loss is minimal.
if they fixed limpets or gave variable thruster damage, or changed cargo hatch drops to be lumps or whatever this would be fine, i'll be completely honest I enjoy hatching people more than I do extorting them, you make considerably more money from compliant droppers currently though.
Not to rain on your parade there, but Tigga scoops 50t easy peasy.
What I don't understand about Pirates, is why they ask for more cargo than they can possibly carry, I was interdicted by a Pirate in a Viper and he asked for all my cargo, I fly an Asp with 80t hold!!!!
Lots of good thoughts on this thread. I'm a trader/bounty hunter by choice and so am pretty much universally the opponent of pirates in-game but it's quite clear that pirates in general have got the short end of the stick in ED. I think the omission of a specific criminal "rank" is one of the biggest ways pirates and smugglers get short-changed. It really should be possible to become an elite crook, from piracy and smuggling. Stealing cargo from another ship, whether or not you have to fire on them to make it happen should add to this rank, fencing stolen goods or smuggling in illegal ones should be a factor, as should the open selling of goods you convinced another player to abandon.
Right now, the only way you "rank up" is by trading, fighting or exploring, there's no recognition of a successful crook that manages to make a living off crime without leaving too much of a body count in his wake other than the hunters foolish enough to take him on or the traders too obstinate to survive. We go after pirate lords in 'condas from the mission screen, why can't a player become a "pirate lord" and be recognized as such?
Given that DB himself said in one of his Q&A sessions that his preference is for playing as a pirate, it boggles the mind that successful piracy receives such minimal recognition.
If it was more of a viable "career" and recognized accordingly I'd perhaps be tempted to hoist the jolly roger myself, but as it is it just doesn't appeal.
Right now, the only way you "rank up" is by trading, fighting or exploring, there's no recognition of a successful crook that manages to make a living off crime without leaving too much of a body count in his wake other than the hunters foolish enough to take him on or the traders too obstinate to survive. We go after pirate lords in 'condas from the mission screen, why can't a player become a "pirate lord" and be recognized as such?
Given that DB himself said in one of his Q&A sessions that his preference is for playing as a pirate, it boggles the mind that successful piracy receives such minimal recognition.
If it was more of a viable "career" and recognized accordingly I'd perhaps be tempted to hoist the jolly roger myself, but as it is it just doesn't appeal.
I scooped 64(max space I had in my asp) but that's because there's a "bug" where cargo doesn't lose health after a certain amount(30 tons I think). So in theory you could scoop all of a type 9s cargo(-whatever the max amount that can decay is) assuming you can carry it all and he jettisons all his cargo.
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This. Insurance is a bad idea. Traders need to have potential for loss and severe pain, otherwise they'll never fairly play the trader vs. pirate game and piracy will die off completely or those left will just become murderous psychopaths because there is no way to make money at it.
The reason piracy sort of works right now (it is a profitable business but 1/10th at best of what a trader can make in the same time) is because traders stand to lose sometimes a lot if they try and run.
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Because those pirates are idiots and amateurs. Real gentleman pirates always have a cargo scanner installed, message to the target they are going to be scanned and remain calm, and do not ever start shooting until after the scan is done and the mark signals they aren't willing to co-operate.
The pirates also should ask for a reasonable amount, which is no more than 50% of the hold contents and no more than the pirate can carry in their own hold.
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I'm not into PvP at all, but it wouldn't be true pirates that would have me running off to solo play only. I like the idea of piracy in the game. It's the "psychos" who get their jollies yanking people out of SC, blowing them away, then going off to find the next mark that would make me stick to solo. Some would argue that they're playing the "role" of a psychopath. Well, there's no universe either real or imagined where that would be allowed. What should happen is after the tenth or so murder in a short period of time, the next time the psycho goes into SC they're immediately interdicted and face a combined force of elite Imperial, Federation and Alliance police forces in maxed out Anacondas, Pythons, Dropships and Clippers who've been "hunting" this dangerous maniac since his killing spree began. From that point forward each and every time he goes into SC the result would be the same. He'd be yanked out and killed. The only way he'd really be able to play the game anymore is if he wipes his save and starts again. A maniac serial killer would not simply be givin additional minor fines in any remotely realistic universe, they would be killed, dead, forever, and wiped from existence.