Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit

[Han Yolo]

I'm pretty certain a Dev has called it an exploit. I am totally sure that they said the 'submit, boost, FSD' is not intended to work the way it does. Submitting was introduced so that clean players could avoid damage when interdicted by the authorities. Of that I am sure.

Thing is, most of the times players submit while still faster than "safe drop out speed" and should get a cooldown on their FSD in any case. If slower then they are lucky and can jump right away again.
So, it's not "working as intended" ...i hope

 

[HoshiQaVam]

Once we have wings in I think this whole issue will change. I am not saying it will be "fixed" but the problems will be different.

2 pirates working together will be a scary proposition. The answer is not traders to team together, becasue 2, hell even 4 type 6s will make no difference, but 2 pirates together, they can both pick the SAME target. sure, the other 3 will get away, but that 1 type 6 will be stuffed. (I am not necessarily saying its a bad thing). I just hope it is the cargo hatch they target!.

The logical answer is you get 2 cargo ships and 2 escorts in a wing, and in a RL example this makes total sense and is exactly what will happen, however that sounds like pretty dull gameplay, and also not very profitable for the 2 escorts.

I suspect this could be one reason why we have not seen any knee jerk reactions from FD yet. Wings will hugely affect the balance of the game, so why waste time and resources on something which may need a total re-work in 2 weeks time?

I think being 1 out of 4 that got shot rather being shot on your own is a little less painful, especially if the group you're flying with is half decent by sharing some of their own load to even out the loss between the whole group.

I could even see this becoming a well practised trader trick; Fully load 3 of the ships, only partially load the 4th, and if interdicted the 4th stays behind to act as a decoy while the rest try and flee.

There's also something else to consider;

It will be interesting to see if a pack of trader ships flying close formations with turrets installed can become potentially lethal to a couple of pirates. Type 9's have 2 turret-friendly weapon mounts on the top, 1 underneath, that's potentially 12 turrets all baring down on the pirate. I'd be very interested to see the end result of that.

 

[Arsen Cross]

Start playing the game and have some fun instead of worrying about (perceived) lack of "balance" and how the devs should "correct" it. See an "unbalanced" situation as a challenge and use your creativity to come up with ways of flying and configuring your ship that turn the situation around into your favour. Besides, the devs at Frontier are no beginners in game design so it is possible that what you perceive as unbalanced could be there for a reason. This may become obvious only after playing the game for quite some time.

If you didn't read my entire post then you completely missed the fact that I say the mechanic should be left as is, with some changes in other areas to compliment it in such a way that it balances it out in such a way that it can become an interesting game mechanic where it's not one now.

 

[Krieger]

If you didn't read my entire post then you completely missed the fact that I say the mechanic should be left as is, with some changes in other areas to compliment it in such a way that it balances it out in such a way that it can become an interesting game mechanic where it's not one now.

FYI I did read your whole post, only shortened it for quoting. But of course you are free to ignore the point I'm trying to get across to you and all the other people who want to tinker with the game because they are annoyed that some aspect is not "just right" (8 out of every 10 threads are about balancing this or that). The game will never be "just right" simply because many very different people are playing it. So, my point: leave the agonizing over balancing the game to the devs and start having fun. The game is certainly good enough to have fun.

 

[ocflyer]

I read the first 12 pages of this post and NOBODY seemed to recognize that a trader flying a T6 can exercise varying amounts of skill to reduce the cooldown time. Those with better flying skill (i.e. slow down while following the vector before submitting, quickly reorient after interdiction, start charging FSD ASAP, evade while charging, etc) should be rewarded with less need to surrender cargo. I routinely slow down while following the escape vector before submitting. Once my speed is much slower, I submit to interdiction. This reduces the jerk from Supercruise speed, thereby reducing my cooldown time. If I didn't slow down before submitting, I'd have a greater speed disparity, greater heating and longer cooldown time, kind of like slowing down before you hit atmosphere so that the ship doesn't heat up from friction quite so much. Since I was getting interdicted all the time, I paid for a better power plant to keep my shields charged during the attack, better shield cells to keep my shield recharged, better thrusters to more quickly reorient the ship after interdiction, and better FSD to skip away faster and farther. I don't see any support for the argument that the system favors the trader over the pirate. Each has their advantages in the struggle. Traders choose to invest in better power, engine, hull, shields, chaff, point defence while the pirates chose to invest in sensors, interdiction, wake scanning and weapons. Pirates - stop complaining and deal with the challenge just like you expect the traders to stop whining about interdiction. Nobody said being a pirate entitles you to be successful financially. And nobody said being a trader means you won't have to deal with the risk of piracy.

 

[SirKiwi]

I agree that the submit and boost mechanic should be removed. It was stated to be unintentional, and the whole point of the interdiction minigame is that if you lose, you only have yourself to blame. Traders (like me, I don't pirate) should either win the minigame or get robbed for their inferior flying.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

I agree that the submit and boost mechanic should be removed. It was stated to be unintentional, and the whole point of the interdiction minigame is that if you lose, you only have yourself to blame. Traders (like me, I don't pirate) should either win the minigame or get robbed for their inferior flying.

Except atm interdictions are near impossible to avoid as the marker can jump all over and the 'game' itself a bit harder, I used to be able to easily avoid them. Now im caught every time in a trading boat that turns slow; and 50% of the time even in a agile combat/multi-purpose ship. I been about since beta so know how to fly b4 any one post l2p.

 

[SirKiwi]

Except atm interdictions are near impossible to avoid as the marker can jump all over and the 'game' itself a bit harder, I used to be able to easily avoid them. Now im caught every time in a trading boat that turns slow; and 50% of the time even in a agile combat/multi-purpose ship. I been about since beta so know how to fly b4 any one post l2p.

As a player who has many times been on both ends of the interdictor, I can safely say that it seems to be harder to interdict than to escape, but perhaps that's just me. At any rate I disagree with you.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

As a player who has many times been on both ends of the interdictor, I can safely say that it seems to be harder to interdict than to escape, but perhaps that's just me. At any rate I disagree with you.

So are you telling me you can still avoid interdictions in a t9 with no difficulty atm?

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Except atm interdictions are near impossible to avoid as the marker can jump all over and the 'game' itself a bit harder...

Aye, therein lies the problem. You see, the whole interdiction procedure is so arcade in the extreme/simple that it's all-or-nothing: A simple mini-game that can be beaten all the time by a skilled pilot.

What do you do then?

Make the mini-game unbeatable.

Honestly, it's like trying to swat a fly on crack! A couple of versions ago they hit the sweet-spot where you could, with effort, win the mini-game. Now, not a chance in a slow trader. So what are we traders to do? Roll over and play 'scratch my tummy'?

Naaah.....Submit and Boost. What other option do we have, keeping in mind that evasion is impossible?

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As a player who has many times been on both ends of the interdictor, I can safely say that it seems to be harder to interdict than to escape, but perhaps that's just me. At any rate I disagree with you.

In the past, maybe. Now it's impossible to avoid an interdiction. I know, I had two just this morning and I do know how to fly.

 

[Sim Maker]

NPC Interdictions, for me, since 1.1......have killed trading, mining and rares running..............so now I explore or bounty hunt............
.
Bounty Hunting? I am looking for the NPCs.....so don't get annoyed when I see them.........Exploring? Once across the bubble, you dont see NPCs at all..........so I geuss you could say in my case..........I like to "control" my play a bit (dont mind the odd interdiction but it got silly after 1.1), do the things I enjoy doing...........and when I am trading.....or mining....or.............getting pulled over by an NPC every 5 mins is like someone walking in to the room when a good movie is on, and changing channels..............I have to fight for the remote and get my channel back...and then a few mins later.....Grrrrrrrrrr........
.
Endless NPC interdictions are not fun, they are annnoying...........
.

 

[Darque]

I have noticed recently that I get interdicted a lot more by NPCs...who then do nothing. They don't even scan me, especially in Friendly or Allied territory. Just interdict and then fly around.

 

[Danube]

I hate pirates. It's no better than the chav down the road who steals a kid's mobile phone or who burgles a pensioner. That trader might have struggled to raise the money for that load of goods and you think you have the right to come and take it away from him because you have a better armed ship? I hunt people like you down and blow you into space dust. And you won't get a warning from me. Am I carrying anything nice? You betcha. A full load of bullets and they're all aimed at YOUR face.

Yeah, pirates seem to think people should roll over, assume the position and drop some free cargo just because they're some sad-sack, space-age Jack Sparrow wannabe - all without even a token resistance. Kill them 'em all. The only good pirate is a pirate breathing vacuum shortly before they pop.

 

[Sim Maker]

That's an interesting way of looking at it....
.
FD have created a "career" in this game, that bascially replicates the low life scum of society......muggers, thieves, murderers.............and people just don;t want to mix with them, or be their victims and will go to great lengths to avoid such people, in real life or a game environment......being a Victim, is not fun.......a fair fight, is fun......................Hauler vs Python is not fair in any way shape or form..........and if th Hauler driver has put 4 hours work in to his plan, to have it taken away by Daddy Issues kiddie playing at home.....then the game loses another player...
.
Far too much effort has gone in to trying to make Pirating work, and the rest of the game is suffering for it.....Its time FD stopped listening to the buillies........

 

[SirKiwi]

I don't think you guys understand. Piracy is nescessary to the lifeblood of the game... without bad guys, there are no good guys. Piracy is the lifeblood of bounty hunting. Piracy gives exitement, hatred, anger... piracy is good.

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Aye, therein lies the problem. You see, the whole interdiction procedure is so arcade in the extreme/simple that it's all-or-nothing: A simple mini-game that can be beaten all the time by a skilled pilot.

What do you do then?

Make the mini-game unbeatable.

Honestly, it's like trying to swat a fly on crack! A couple of versions ago they hit the sweet-spot where you could, with effort, win the mini-game. Now, not a chance in a slow trader. So what are we traders to do? Roll over and play 'scratch my tummy'?

Naaah.....Submit and Boost. What other option do we have, keeping in mind that evasion is impossible?

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In the past, maybe. Now it's impossible to avoid an interdiction. I know, I had two just this morning and I do know how to fly.

I really don't know what to say to that. I haven't had that experience at all lately, perhaps you are just getting interdicted by very skilled pilots with A grade high class interdictors?

 

[EddyRockSteady]

....perhaps you are just getting interdicted by very skilled pilots with A grade high class interdictors?

That's the issue we are stuck with when having an arcade mechanic.

Give it a couple of months and 90% of pirates/pilots will be very skilled with A grade interdictors. Likewise, traders will also be very skilled. So we have both pilots of equal skill and good equipment. With a reasonable arcade mini-game it is always beatable by a skilled pilot.

Pirates will be weeping tears of whine with free cheese platters thrown in.

FD will run out of cheese to placate the pirates. What then?

Make the mini-game more difficult, ie skilled pilot cannot win and must submit.

What then? What happens if the mini-game is unbeatable AND we cannot boost immediately once we have submitted?

In my opinion this entire dynamic is fatally flawed.

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

So are you telling me you can still avoid interdictions in a t9 with no difficulty atm?

Why are you implying that "no difficulty" should be involved?

 

[Zelos1983]

What then? What happens if the mini-game is unbeatable AND we cannot boost immediately once we have submitted?

That will enormously contribute to the downfall of E. The minigame already got "harder" (which means you have to fly INTO the sun often to follow the escape vector), submitting is already bugged (often you get hull damage), and this happens far to often. Almost anytime I refuel and there are other ships nearby.

I'm really sick of it. And even when I decide to destroy the perpetrator, all it does is cost me ammo. There is no reward or bounty most of the times.

Interdiction is just the "sorry, you enountered bad luck. loose your turn" card.

 

[RhymeRhyme]

Dont understand. What Happyend with SUBMITTING? What does it mean?

 

[Riandor]

Aye FD need to sit down and have a good think about the whole interdiction mechanic. A proper sit down and not some rushed reactive change like the way the whole mechanic was dreamt up in the first place.

The idea is sound and the mini game to escape is fair though I'm not certain its working properly at times.

Taking damage from a successful interdiction is ridiculous. Speed doesn't seem to matter either from my experience...It picks a number between 1 and 10% and that's what you lose I think. So it's easier to submit and then BONUS you not only don't take damage but the FSD will charge faster!!! I can even avoid the stressful player interaction that's being forced on me by participating in open in the mini game that FD designed specifically for this mechanic.

This is totally not working as intended and FD need to have a good think about the response to fix it.

This...

I think many on here are entirely missing the point.
If you play Open, you are fair game, BUT the game should be fair for both parties, whereas at present it simply doesnt work.

The Interdiction mechanism should work thusly (IMHO):

Submit - Pirate has you and you SHOULD expect to have to pay up or if you want, fight. But you should NOT have the bonus of simply being able to boost away and escape. That is is simply illogical. What you do have is a chance to pay up without damage. After submitting your ship should essentially be mostly disabled, at least the FSD as the Interdiction module hacks your system but without a fight, so its more a disabling than a hard hack/violent reboot. You as a Trader are now prone, but you are ready to pay up. and get this over with quickly.

Fight the Interdiction -
1 - If you win, you escape, simple. The Pirate in question should be sent hurtling out of SC, minor damage and FSD charge delay. Too bad pirate, try again.
2 - If you lose, then you are the one "thrown" out of SC, minor system damage and possibly even shields down, much like an EMP (this could form part of an upgradeable Interdiction module if you prefer) and the Pirate jumps in fully on top of you. You can now decide to submit or fight or try and flee.
3- a stalemate where BOTH ships are thrown out of SC and semi-vulnerable (low shields as an example) and it s a mad scramble to reboot, for the trader to get out and for the Pirate to stop you in time. This option essentially being much like how it is now where it is a further skill based action, prey vs predator.

Note: This should be coupled with higher fines and bounties for causing damage/destruction so that it still promotes the Pirate who wants to force the issue takes a heavier price to their head. The whole point is to promote the acquisition of cargo, not to destroy someone. Murder MUST be given a higher bounty.

The focus should be on the Interdiction though, give it meaning, make people decide what to do, risk submitting and paying up or risk fighting it and getting away scot free.