A traders perspective on career balancing

[Spiridon]

Gobsmacked!! You bought ED to work?
If you did, I think you are in a very small minority. It is all play, some of it just so dull. A lot of us would not buy a game if it meant we had to work at playing.

You don't have to work in ED, no no! Have fun as much as you want in easily obtainable ships, just don't whine why someone who took different approach to having fun in this game makes money than you.

You make more fun with pew-pew, I make more money with trading. You can't have both. And "having fun at something" is not universal.

 

[jgm]

But after shooting down a few nasties on route to an extraction planet I noticed that the bounties were actually rather tasty. As an experiment I took my ship off course full to bursting with palladium and headed to a RES.
20 mins later and not even half way through Lynrd Skynrds first seminal album I was 280 000 creds better off and had not one scratch on my hull.

You were in a Python, correct? Now try doing it in a Viper or Cobra and see how much you earn.

 

[Distance]

I hear you but if it suddenly becomes possible for everybody combat inclined to get an anaconda, FDL or Python fairly easily, then you also have a problem on your hands. I personally think high end ships should take a seriously long time to earn. Not saying bounty jobs couldn't go up incrementally based on rep, rating etc. but it all has to stay proportionate. Last thing you want is for all the traders to start flying solo. No fun in that!

You mis-understand me, the problem with the other professions isn't the lack of money (the pay outs are too low though) it's because people can't see any progress. If you saw bounties scaling or the mission system was more varied there wouldn't be a problem. People wouldn't be too bothered that trading earned more but because they see no progression with their profession and then see a trader making a million every 10 minutes they latch on to that instead.

It's because there's a lack of progression (as with trading>ship size>cargo) that people focus more on the money side of things and think it's a case of just adding more financial rewards.

 

[SlackR]

Everybody can already get a conda or python easily, as long as they're willing to trade first.

I think that depends on your definition of easy. I have no idea how many hours I have logged but it is literally hundreds. I think it was easy during gamma and many players got a head start but it is getting progressively more difficult IMO. It's taken me an age to save up for a T9 since I wiped a couple of weeks after release.

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

Kids want it all and they want it now.

Trading is work, bh/pirating is fun. Please don't ever, anywhere, expect the fun payed same as work.

You know this is a game right? A video game? Maybe if you treat this as "work" you need a real job. Most people don't want to work one job, let alone two. So get off your high horse, its nothing to do with kids. This isn't real life, so spare us your life lectures on work ethics.

FD said they will reduce the cost of combat ships, thats perfect. Most of the whining surrounding that is all the no lifers who perceive they will not be as "special" as they currently believe themselves to be, because more people who don't grind A to B for 4+ hours a day will have more expensive ships within their reach. Ships that heaven forbid, might pose a threat to their precious anacondas. That most of them abused rares/seeking luxuries to get hold of anyway.

 

[dioogio]

You don't have to work in ED, no no! Have fun as much as you want, just don't whine why someone who took different approach to having fun in this game makes money than you.

You make more fun with pew-pew, I make more money with trading. You can't have both.

You guys make me laugh how you keep posting with whines about other people whining.. for heaven sake read your own post.
Who says you cant have both other than you. Actually even the Devs and DB have openly said they believe no one profession should be able to earn way more than others.

Edit: and as to you suggestion that I whine about others earn more than me, never have. Suggest that BH should be able to progress, have often. And look up the word whine in the dictionary. I definitely never do that.

 

[Bigcheese]

FD is aware of the issue and is looking to even things out. Non Trading ships are getting a price reduction by the end of the week and other improvements are planned.

 

[SlackR]

You mis-understand me, the problem with the other professions isn't the lack of money (the pay outs are too low though) it's because people can't see any progress. If you saw bounties scaling or the mission system was more varied there wouldn't be a problem. People wouldn't be too bothered that trading earned more but because they see no progression with their profession and then see a trader making a million every 10 minutes they latch on to that instead.

It's because there's a lack of progression (as with trading>ship size>cargo) that people focus more on the money side of things and think it's a case of just adding more financial rewards.

I think 1.3 will go a long way to appeasing the lack of storylines and progression will hopefully become more than earning creds for a bigger ship. I imagine we will see more depth to missions and rep will have more meaning.

 

[Kerrec Snowmane]

You don't have to work in ED, no no! Have fun as much as you want in easily obtainable ships, just don't whine why someone who took different approach to having fun in this game makes money than you.

You make more fun with pew-pew, I make more money with trading. You can't have both. And "having fun at something" is not universal.

Your "reasoning" is so illogical, on several levels.
.
1) you state that trading is fun for you.
2) you state that pew-pew is fun for others.
3) you state that trading should pay more because it's more work. (what happened to #1?) I can only conclude you are saying your fun is worth more. Or are you saying other people are having the wrong kind of fun? Or other people don't know what fun is?
4) If you like trading, or resign yourself to having to trade, then all ships are easily accessible.
5) you slam non-traders for choosing to fly "easily accessible" ships based on their income. If the Anaconda, Python, FDL and the big trading ships cost BILLIONS instead of MILLIONS, would you still be OK with the status quo?

 

[smsKONG]

Plus we've had the repair cost reduction which was a problem for combat orientated careers previously.

Things are definitely getting more lucrative for BH/pirate/assasin.

You also have to remember that not all traders abuse the 3rd party tools to squeeze the profits out - I imagine there are many like me who refuse to go down that road: I make a little more trading than via combat, but the disparity between earning potential is no way near as large as most people on here make out it is.

The combat pilots whining about trade profits should try trading themselves first (without help from tools) - it isn't as profitable as is made out on here - it can be, but only in fits and starts before you have to move on and find new routes.

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

You mis-understand me, the problem with the other professions isn't the lack of money (the pay outs are too low though) it's because people can't see any progress. If you saw bounties scaling or the mission system was more varied there wouldn't be a problem. People wouldn't be too bothered that trading earned more but because they see no progression with their profession and then see a trader making a million every 10 minutes they latch on to that instead.

It's because there's a lack of progression (as with trading>ship size>cargo) that people focus more on the money side of things and think it's a case of just adding more financial rewards.

This. This is what we are talking about.

You trade, you first make a real step into trading in a T6. Great, around 128 cargo or something if i remember rightly. say you are on a 1000cr/ton trade route, thats 256k roughly every 10-15 minutes depending on trade route make up. So you do that for a while. Then you get enough for a T7/clipper.

Double cargo. So now if you use the same route, thats roughly double the money for the same time window. So 500k every 10-15 minutes. So you do that for a while too. Then you get a T9.

Double cargo. So now its a million every 10-15 minutes. Or another way to look at it is 4 times what you were earning in a T6. Every 10-15 minutes. No risk.

There is no such progression in earnings with a combat profession. And by comparison, there is also no skill in trading. Its guaranteed money, the only input required is time. Combat profits are less consistent, and more risky. The only risk in trading is if someone like me, in a clipper or python decides you are sucking too much of his supply/demand on his trade route and when he docks next equips an interdictor. Shortly before smoking your defenceless T9 the next time he sees you in SC along with your overly secure sense of risk free trade.

If traders think that too many people that want combat too be profitable are whining, fine. Its all good. Lets just increases the AI capability to make trading horrendously dangerous, which they already said they could. Thats what is missing from trading, inherent risk that is supposed to be present in every profession in ED. The devs even said as much in a previous thread. I'm going to actually make this my personal mission, because i'm sick of these threads popping up now people that want to enjoy the combat in the game are actually getting a break.

Honestly i'm going to post it everywhere. Tired of traders thinking they are chocolate, simply because they have the patience, and the will, to neglect real life enough to sit for hours every day going backwards and forwards with zero consequences. I genuinely feel most of the complaints come from no life people already sitting pretty on a fortune, and want to remain looking down at the peasants and their combat desires.

 

[777Driver]

I am trader... I haul stuff.
I fly where the cargo takes me and my goal is to buy bigger and badder ships that can haul more stuff and make me more credits. I'm a space trucker by trade pure and simple. But heck even a trucker needs to know how to take care of themselves and so I am not averse to shooting down those who would try and take my payload- besides it helps with my anger management issues and breaks up the monotony.

So when I heard that bounty hunters and the like werent happy that I earn more than them I gave the problem some thought (there's plenty of thinking time out in the void)

First up I thought... Tough shiiiii

I'm mean you have an exciting job and hauling crap from A to B ain't exactly fun you know! plus ive seen you all hanging out in the spacebars, all suave and leathered up....The ladies aren't exactly flocking round me you know! Spacetruckins not exactly a glamorous job and the last time I could fit into a pair of leather pants was pre- flight school!

But after shooting down a few nasties on route to an extraction planet I noticed that the bounties were actually rather tasty. As an experiment I took my ship off course full to bursting with palladium and headed to a RES.
20 mins later and not even half way through Lynrd Skynrds first seminal album I was 280 000 creds better off and had not one scratch on my hull.

Huh?
Now it took me a good long while to earn enough creds to buy a ship that could make that kind of profit inside 20 mins doin what I do, so I really don't see what all the fuss is about?!?

Anyways there it is ... A simple trucker turned bounty hunter for less than half an hour and wondering why everyone's moaning!
See you around commanders

+1 Dude... I've done the exact same as you and seen the same results, made half a mill very quickly in Beta without hauling a single ton. Still, I worked hard, did the trucking, now I can enjoy buying whatever toys I want in game.

 

[TNeto]

I'm betting my money that pretty much all ships across the board will become cheaper, but their maintenance/upgrade costs will increase and scale so that people who "worked" for them can have a much easier time than those about to dive into hastily purchasing them after the price reduction. Call me a cynic, but there are no free lunches.

 

[777Driver]

Honestly i'm going to post it everywhere. Tired of traders thinking they are chocolate, simply because they have the patience, and the will, to neglect real life enough to sit for hours every day going backwards and forwards with zero consequences. I genuinely feel most of the complaints come from no life people already sitting pretty on a fortune, and want to remain looking down at the peasants and their combat desires.

Obviously you are not a trader in OPEN, we have to constantly deal with guys like you too, lazy to trade so demand we don't combat log and hand you 15T of cargo.. I'm just laughing because you can destroy my ship but you still aren't getting nothing out of me.

I bounty hunt, do missions.. but always carry cargo.. have made a massive amount of money. You don't have to fly A-B-A all day. couldn't do that even if i wanted too , I'd be a billionaire ingame if I could.

 

[SiriusSeven]

+1 Dude... I've done the exact same as you and seen the same results, made half a mill very quickly in Beta without hauling a single ton. Still, I worked hard, did the trucking, now I can enjoy buying whatever toys I want in game.

I said it before, I'll say it again. The problem is progression. You could buy 146 Vipers for the price of the Vulture. In the meantime, profits don't scale when you get the Vulture. That Vulture does not earn you 146x more money ... or even 1.46x more money. You're stuck at whatever you were making in the Viper. That's not fun.

By comparison, the Hauler has 22t capacity and the type 6 has a 100+ ton capacity. You make 5x the cash with that first upgrade. This continues as you work your way yup the space truck chain. The upgrade to a Type 7 doubles your profit. The Type 9 upgrade more than doubles it again. Maybe by the time you get to a Type 9 from a hauler, you are making 24x the profit each run. Compare that to bounty hunting.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

irrelevant thread given the Devs position on the career imbalance is clearly stated in the latest dev update.

Enjoy.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=124528&p=1919779&viewfull=1#post1919779

As with any ongoing development we’re constantly examining balancing and there are some imbalances between the roles – in particular trading is too powerful compared with other play styles. We believe a player shouldn’t feel that they have to indulge in trading to reach the next suitable ship for their preferred way to play, so to make other roles more viable we’ll continue to strengthen the role of combat pilots, miners and explorers in the galaxy, making those paths a more viable option for progression in future updates.

 

[777Driver]

I said it before, I'll say it again. The problem is progression. You could buy 146 Vipers for the price of the Vulture. In the meantime, profits don't scale when you get the Vulture. That Vulture does not earn you 146x more money ... or even 14.6x more money. You're stuck at whatever you were making in the Viper. That's not fun.

Well I partly disagree, I sometimes put all my money aside, jump into a Cobra and just do 150,000K missions (whilst hauling) If I carried on I could purchase a type six and do a small amount of trading on the side. It's not all about Pew pew all the time. Now if I carried on in my cobra I could save up the 20 mill for a clipper in a week or so. Then I am in a position to hunt plus haul 200+T of cargo at the same time.

Sorry but it's just laziness that I see with most people, all the guys that just hang out in RES sites in a Viper like an Arcade game, then complain they cant buy a Python. We all started with a crappy sidewinder.

But anyway, wings should solve the combat issue, I was making a lot of money without trading in Beta, not 5 mill an hour, but still a good amount of cash

 

[SiriusSeven]

Well I partly disagree, I sometimes put all my money aside, jump into a Cobra and just do 150,000K missions (whilst hauling) If I carried on I could purchase a type six and do a small amount of trading on the side. It's not all about Pew pew all the time. Now if I carried on in my cobra I could save up the 20 mill for a clipper in a week or so. Then I am in a position to hunt plus haul 200+T of cargo at the same time.

Sorry but it's just laziness that I see with most people, all the guys that just hang out in RES sites in a Viper like an Arcade game, then complain they cant buy a Python. We all started with a crappy sidewinder.

I've since expanded upon my post. Anyways, you're missing the point if you think it's about laziness. A trader's profits multiply 24x as they progress. Bounty hunting never sees anything close to that. It's about progression. The bounty hunter career is a hobby, and does not progress.

And where do you get off telling us that hanging out at RES points is lazy? Is it any worse than hanging out in stations waiting for rares to refresh?

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

Obviously you are not a trader in OPEN, we have to constantly deal with guys like you too, lazy to trade so demand we don't combat log and hand you 15T of cargo.. I'm just laughing because you can destroy my ship but you still aren't getting nothing out of me.

I bounty hunt, do missions.. but always carry cargo.. have made a massive amount of money. You don't have to fly A-B-A all day. couldn't do that even if i wanted too , I'd be a billionaire ingame if I could.

I only play in open mate, and to date i traded 90 million worth. so obviously you don't know as much about the game as you think. I never had to deal with a guy like me, not sure exactly what you are talking about. There is zero risk trading in open unless you are a moron and go to places like Lave. If you are seriously trying to say otherwise, i'm not surprised you have so much in game cash.

Regardless, you can say you mix your jobs up all you like, but to make a good amount of money you have to focus on trading, for large periods of time. You trying to say you haven't done that, a lot?

EDIT: I dont know where you got a pirate reference from but you should try reading peoples comments better. I never once mentioned pirating. I mentioned interdicting and killing to remove competition. Something that should be done a lot more in my opinion.

 

[777Driver]

I've since expanded upon my post. Anyways, you're missing the point if you think it's about laziness. A trader's profits multiply 24x as they progress. Bounty hunting never sees anything close to that. It's about progression.

Well I worked as wing in Beta taking on Multiple Conda's in Beta, we made good money, and I could only fly for an hour or two each day. It seems like progression to me, start out in a Viper or cobra, work as wing, build up to a tricked out Clipper, take on harder targets, eventually get to a Python and go into Strong signals alone and keep all the cash.