Should FD Sell the Ships in a Shop?

[StuartGT]

My reply to a post in another thread, edited for clarity here:

...there is a market for credits with no Frontier involvement...you are a bit late

If there is an underground market trading credits4cash, then those players who want to should just use those services. FDev won't officially support it, as was discussed in the private backer forums

 

[S.H.A.D.O]

Voted No, no way. That would be a stupid decision and would lose them a lot of customers.

 

[Xaraman]

Talking from experience here.

I hear you!

One of the first "Free to play" games I got into ended up costing me over €1000 after a year of play and that was just to remain competitive. The top tier guys were dropping €200-500 per month on the game and when something like a new mount came out, people were dropping over €1000 just to get the mount (lockbox/gambling mechanic).

Never again

Was I also dreaming when I saw one of the SC packages costing $15000?

 

[Chip Patton]

You realize of course, that you're making no sense?
have you read any of my previous posts in this thread? If you had, you'd stop making personal attacks... your actions define those of a troll (I'm sure in real life you're a great person/father/mother/whatever)

I'm making sense, and you've still proven you can't answer simple questions or respond to the facts when they are directly aimed at you, what you do seem to prevail at is diversion and subduction, as every time I call you <snip> you immediately dodge it.

For instance, I asked why you aren't playing p2w games and you dodged until called on it and then responded that you do still play them. Then when I called you on that and said your starting logic of you not having the TIME to grind not because you have IRL jobs etc, but because you didn't WANT to, you fail any answer or response at all, instead, you make me LOL with your "makes no sense".

Anyone that's reading, it makes perfect sense. You would make a great politician.

 

[jmg]

Well, you already paid for a game with a couple of mil headstart, so I believe you.

100 eh? What's a Conda worth? I'm guessing you'd buy the stock version. So 100 dollars buys you 150 million. Isn't that a bit cheap?

Tongue in cheek or n ot, that's exactly my point. You will get people to spend large amounts of cash on stuff they can't afford because the appeal of owning it is very big for a gamer.

Talking from experience here.

sorry, I don't agree with the second point. IF you can't afford it, don't buy it. period. If you're buying things you can't afford, you have things of more significance to consider other than whether frontier will make ships available for $$

 

[_Flin_]

I like the way World of Tanks handles buyable tanks:

- they are worse combat wise than regular tanks
- they earn more credits than regular tanks
- they have a unique benefit by being able to be manned with every same-nation same-class crew without training explicitely for the tank

So while this is not 1:1 transferable to Elite, i think the model itself is good to think about.

Having a ship that fulfils a unique niche role but is not a competitor to the normal ships.

Things like
- Racing ships
- Colony ships
- Small carriers without arms and cargo, carrying 4 fighters without FSD
- An aesthetically pleasant yacht with bad armament and cargo, but good flight charateristics and sound

Stuff that does not give a benefit, or a very limited RP oriented or just bragging potential. Nothing to compete in the trading / fighting / exploring / mining area, but just fluffy shiny toys.

Those could be bought for real cash. Vanity ships.

That would be o.k. And would make nice presents.

 

[Chip Patton]

I like the way World of Tanks handles buyable tanks:

- they are worse combat wise than regular tanks
- they earn more credits than regular tanks
- they have a unique benefit by being able to be manned with every same-nation same-class crew without training explicitely for the tank

So while this is not 1:1 transferable to Elite, i think the model itself is good to think about.

Having a ship that fulfils a unique niche role but is not a competitor to the normal ships.

Things like
- Racing ships
- Colony ships
- Small carriers without arms and cargo, carrying 4 fighters without FSD
- An aesthetically pleasant yacht with bad armament and cargo, but good flight charateristics and sound

Stuff that does not give a benefit, or a very limited RP oriented or just bragging potential. Nothing to compete in the trading / fighting / exploring / mining area, but just fluffy shiny toys.

Those could be bought for real cash. Vanity ships.

That would be o.k. And would make nice presents.

You mean, ships that can be immediately outfitted with cargo racks or directly sold so that a brand new player can 10,000,000 cr per hour to buy an end-game combat ship in 10 hours? I loathe the idea.

 

[jmg]

I'm making sense, and you've still proven you can't answer simple questions or respond to the facts when they are directly aimed at you, what you do seem to prevail at is diversion and abduction, as every time I call you on your you immediately dodge it.

For instance, I asked why you aren't playing p2w games and you dodged until called on it and then responded that you do still play them. Then when I called you on that and said your starting logic of you not having the TIME to grind not because you have IRL jobs etc, but because you didn't WANT to, you fail any answer or response at all, instead, you make me LOL with your "makes no sense".

Anyone that's reading, it makes perfect sense. You would make a great politician.

1) First, I've already agreed with a previous post that paid-for ships in this game probably wouldn't work as currently implemented, simply because the community very clearly doesn't want it. On that basis alone, your attacks against me are well, just silly
2) why am I not playing p2w games? I don't play play 2 win games. I play some games that have a paid for element in them, like mwo. If you would ask a direct question, you'd get a direct answer
3) second point still makes no sense. I have a limited amount of time to devote to video games --- like I said, I have a life outside my computer. So, yes, I do play other games, I enjoy them, and they have far less of a time commitment. I play ED, I enjoy it, but the time commitment is grosly disproportionate to what I have to spend. I'm not sure what you're not following about this, or what you think I'm evading.

Bottom line, you're making very little sense, ignoring most of what I'm saying, making personal attacks, and for the rest, just making things up.
It's seriously like talking to a child. I get the point, others have made it far, far better than you apparently can. under the current implementation, paid for ships won't work here simply because the community will not stand for it. I would love to have paid for ships, but then, maybe this game just isn't for me.

 

[Chip Patton]

You can afford to be short-sighted and wave away this problem because it stands in the way of you buying your way into the game instead of actually having to spend a little effort. FD needs to consider what impact these decisions have on the players.

He can't be short-sighted! We don't make any sense!

 

[jmg]

You don't have to. It's a fact of the matter. People do get in trouble financially exactly because of these things.


FD makes a game. Games are addicting. People are not rational when stuff is addicting. FD needs to take this into consideration when they decide on this matter.

You can afford to be short-sighted and wave away this problem because it stands in the way of you buying your way into the game instead of actually having to spend a little effort. FD needs to consider what impact these decisions have on the players.

so glenfiddich should stop making scotch so damn tasty?
Sorry, I don't buy it. if you can't resist, don't buy. period.

 

[_Flin_]

You mean, ships that can be immediately outfitted with cargo racks or directly sold so that a brand new player can 10,000,000 cr per hour to buy an end-game combat ship in 10 hours? I loathe the idea.

Where did I say that? Where did I mention cargo? Where did I mention a sell price?

I dont know what you loathe, but its not my idea. Maybe you loathe your night with not enough sleep, but you are not talking about the post I made.

 

[Varrag]

Voted No, no way. That would be a stupid decision and would lose them a lot of customers.

Some idealists might be lost, yes, but they would gain much more than that on the other side.

I am still waiting to see any rational explanation why buying ships (or credits, whatever) for RL cash would be bad for a game which has been built as ED: basically a single player with heavily instanced multiplayer added as an option, with no dynamic player driven market, no manufacturing, no territorial control... hardly a competitive game. Lot of people seem to get overly emotional over this for no reason at all.

 

[FreakyNasty]

Hi All
.
Some people have lots of time.......and maybe not so much money?........for them, they can grind their way to new ships.........and to mention Payable downloads is like the ultimate sin.......
.
For myself, I am sat in front of a machine for my working day, and I have no desire to "grind" in front of one in the evenings.......have fun? yes...grind? no chance........however, I do have pleanty of real world credits, called "pounds".....
.
Any chance that FD can sell the ships in the store for people who do not have the time to grind out millions of credits? I have some REAL credits you can have instead...... .
.
I dont see buying the ships as "Pay to Win".....as others can just grind to the same ship, there is no "bonus weapon" for a cash purchase.....just simple logic......some people have time and can grind, some people dont have the time but have cash......can FD please all?
.
Cheers.

I work behind a screen all day also, dont get much play time and have cash to buy ships if that were possible BUT! your suggestion NO NO NO. I dont care how long it takes me to work my way up to the ship i want, its part of the game, i dont want a five min fix because its going to take time and effort.

The whole point is that it takes a long time otherwise whats the point.

Its this sort of "i want it all now without the effort" thats ruined so many other online games. Typical of todays society and the people in it.

rant over, now go grind!

 

[jmg]

Can't find a good argument against my points, dismiss it. Period.

Thanks for showing I have pointed out a severe problem. Apreciate it

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -


Ok, then let me ask you. What do you feel a fair price for an Anaconda would be?

fair enough. I acknowledge that it's an issue, and I'm probably being too dismissive of it.
That was a shortsighted response, and I appreciate you calling me out on it.

 

[Katkon]

You're agreeing to a solution that has nothing to do with the problem. You find it a lot simpler and fair to address issues by direct solutions to problem - not by looking for radical and permanent changes to the game. The devs have already stated that they are actively working to balance trade with combat and tweak the ship prices. Your solution is the equivalent of trying to drop a nuke on a burning oil well.

Uhm - no. I'm answering the question asked by the original OP, and the title of the thread. I'm not trying to solve a problem, I'm sharing my perspective on an opportunity to delight more of the player base AND make FD more money in the process. You're welcome to disagree. Doesn't change my perspective in the slightest, however. Best of all, neither my singular perspective nor yours will drive FD to do anything differently. All we're doing is sharing highly subjective and personal opinions.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Note to all: please discuss the topic and refrain from making it personal.

 

[jmg]

Uhm - no. I'm answering the question asked by the original OP, and the title of the thread. I'm not trying to solve a problem, I'm sharing my perspective on an opportunity delight more of the player base AND make FD more money in the process. You're welcome to disagree. Doesn't change my perspective in the slightest, however. Best of all, neither my singular perspective nor yours will drive FD to do anything differently. All we're doing is sharing highly subjective and personal opinions.

katkon, if you haven't noticed, chip is intentionally reacting emotionally to bait other people... what's otherwise known as a "troll".
Others are making his points for him, in a far more persuasive and neutral way. I'd suggest ignoring him until he starts making sense or stops making personal attacks.
He's already on my ignore list.

 

[Varrag]

community very clearly doesn't want it

Community? You mean 350-400 of us forumites who bothered to vote, of which large part, judging by some "ZOMG P2W!!1!" posts, doesn't even understand what it's all about?

 

[Chip Patton]

1) First, I've already agreed with a previous post that paid-for ships in this game probably wouldn't work as currently implemented, simply because the community very clearly doesn't want it. On that basis alone, your attacks against me are well, just silly

Silly -- one of those filler words you use when you're looking for a word or phrase you either can't figure out or can't use. Let me help, not applicable. If my "attacks" are just silly or not applicable, well I've never seen someone make a silly attack. Obviously if the attack didn't apply to you then how the hell did you take it personally if not to take issue with it as an obstacle to the argument and point?

2) why am I not playing p2w games? I don't play play 2 win games. I play some games that have a paid for element in them, like mwo. If you would ask a direct question, you'd get a direct answer

Paid elements are pay to win, no matter how much you want to scream and throw temper tantrums to deny it. No amount of denial will change that fact. Once a paid item introduces an advance to any player, that player then has an advantage of everything he earns from then out making the very point of fact and time he purchased said item an unfair advantage on everyone else unable to pay. Therefor, said player paying for items in effect, pays for said elements in effort to "win". Pay to Win.

You see, ED has paid elements, they're called ship skins. But that's not enough to you because they don't help you win. Hope that makes more sense.

3) second point still makes no sense. I have a limited amount of time to devote to video games --- like I said, I have a life outside my computer. So, yes, I do play other games, I enjoy them, and they have far less of a time commitment. I play ED, I enjoy it, but the time commitment is grosly disproportionate to what I have to spend. I'm not sure what you're not following about this, or what you think I'm evading.

If you devoted your "game time" to ED you would have plenty of time to compete. You don't have time to grind because you chose not too, not because it is impossible. Back in the day of grinding raids with EverQuest I would stay up nearly all night, sleeping only 4 hours before work the next day to get in a solid 6 hours. You see, the time was possible and I chose to make that time possible. You can't sit here and tell people you so impaired in this game because you don't have enough time to play when you're PLAYING OTHER GAMES. You don't have time to play not by life, but by choice. You were clearly misleading people.

But someone, such as a child or minor whose parents buy this game for them, they quite literally CANNOT pay for the items you would use as an advantage to them. And ergo the difference, you have the choice to put more time into this game, people that can't afford your p2w schemes will have no choice. Making sense? Of course not.

Bottom line, you're making very little sense, ignoring most of what I'm saying, making personal attacks, and for the rest, just making things up.
It's seriously like talking to a child. I get the point, others have made it far, far better than you apparently can. under the current implementation, paid for ships won't work here simply because the community will not stand for it. I would love to have paid for ships, but then, maybe this game just isn't for me.

I hope this made more sense, and I hope I didn't ignore a single line of what you posted, if I did, do let me know. What did I make up again? Please do explain that else you're making things up.

 

[jmg]

Silly -- one of those filler words you use when you're looking for a word or phrase you either can't figure out or can't use. Let me help, not applicable. If my "attacks" are just silly or not applicable, well I've never seen someone make a silly attack. Obviously if the attack didn't apply to you then how the hell did you take it personally if not to take issue with it as an obstacle to the argument and point?



Paid elements are pay to win, no matter how much you want to scream and throw temper tantrums to deny it. No amount of denial will change that fact. Once a paid item introduces an advance to any player, that player then has an advantage of everything he earns from then out making the very point of fact and time he purchased said item an unfair advantage on everyone else unable to pay. Therefor, said player paying for items in effect, pays for said elements in effort to "win". Pay to Win.

You see, ED has paid elements, they're called ship skins. But that's not enough to you because they don't help you win. Hope that makes more sense.



If you devoted your "game time" to ED you would have plenty of time to compete. You don't have time to grind because you chose not too, not because it is impossible. Back in the day of grinding raids with EverQuest I would stay up nearly all night, sleeping only 4 hours before work the next day to get in a solid 6 hours. You see, the time was possible and I chose to make that time possible. You can't sit here and tell people you so impaired in this game because you don't have enough time to play when you're PLAYING OTHER GAMES. You don't have time to play not by life, but by choice. You were clearly misleading people.

But someone, such as a child or minor whose parents by this game for them, they quite literally CANNOT pay for the items you would use as an advantage to them. And ergo the difference.



I hope this made more sense, and I hope I didn't ignore a single line of what you posted, if I did, do let me know. What did I make up again? Please do explain that else you're making things up.

No, actually, as usual, you ignored the most salient points I made. See point one, and lose the focus on the word "silly"

I now see why there's such a vast difference in our views. You say you "sleep only four hours" so you can "work 6 hours" the next day. When I said a "job", I didn't mean parttime. I am full time, unfortunetly (for my family) mostly 6 days a week, with extensive travel. So, I don't have the time you have for video games. Even if I had free time, I'd spend it with my kids. So I get a few hours here and there to blow off steam.

Thank you for making this clear. I see now that we're just at very different places in life. I fully understand why you defend this so intensely, and have so much time for it, and can't possibly understand why others wouldn't have more time.