Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Jorlin]

Not sure why the following concept seems lost on so many people.

There are four main roles that exist within Elite.

Trading, Pirating, Bounty Hunting, Exploring. (there is also mining but its hardly worth a mention)

Now two of those four roles Pirating and Bounty hunting, CANNOT EXIST if there are no traders in the game.

The irony is that whilst people who want to play as either a pirate or a bounty hunter absolutely NEED traders to support the food chain, Traders can actually progress quicker by avoiding multiplayer and sticking to solo.

Why this is beyond anyones comprehension is beyond me.

The more irony is that I suspect that if traders did not have the option of hiding in solo mode then they would not actually enjoy the game any less. They would probably have more fun, but human nature is to take the easy route so they do.

You can't force people to enjoy the role of the end of the foodchain.
you... simply... can't

And to quote you again:

"Why this is beyond anyones comprehension is beyond me."


And to everyone that wants traders in open because they are needed for the foodchain and essential to the game:
Get yourself a T6 and go trading.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The irony is that whilst people who want to play as either a pirate or a bounty hunter absolutely NEED traders to support the food chain, Traders can actually progress quicker by avoiding multiplayer and sticking to solo.

Why this is beyond anyones comprehension is beyond me.

The more irony is that I suspect that if traders did not have the option of hiding in solo mode then they would not actually enjoy the game any less. They would probably have more fun, but human nature is to take the easy route so they do.

What's in it for the trader? Life at the bottom of the food-chain probably won't be too enjoyable....

The game has been advertised from the outset as being able to be played alone, with friends or in open play - with the ability to switch between the three modes. If that promise were to be reneged on then I would expect that it would have happened before release.

 

[Snakebite]

You can't force people to enjoy the role of the end of the foodchain.
you... simply... can't

And to quote you again:

"Why this is beyond anyones comprehension is beyond me."

No of course not, trying to force anyone to enjoy something is obviously not going to work.

In ED Traders *ARE* the bottom of the food chain, no getting away from that. That does not mean that a traders role cannot be enjoyable and rewarding.

IMO FD should abandon solo mode, or at least stop mode swapping, and concentrate on getting the core gameplay balance right so that everyone can have an enjoyable and rewarding experience in open.

 

[Seonid]

Now two of those four roles Pirating and Bounty hunting, CANNOT EXIST if there are no traders in the game.

They can all exist in Private groups though can't they...

 

[Jorlin]

No of course not, trying to force anyone to enjoy something is obviously not going to work.

In ED Traders *ARE* the bottom of the food chain, no getting away from that. That does not mean that a traders role cannot be enjoyable and rewarding.

IMO FD should abandon solo mode, or at least stop mode swapping, and concentrate on getting the core gameplay balance right so that everyone can have an enjoyable and rewarding experience in open.

then we have to agree to disagree

 

[Snakebite]

What's in it for the trader? Life at the bottom of the food-chain probably won't be too enjoyable....

The game has been advertised from the outset as being able to be played alone, with friends or in open play - with the ability to switch between the three modes. If that promise were to be reneged on then I would expect that it would have happened before release.

They also said that you can play the way you want, trader, bounty hunter, pirate.

Solo mode is resulting in both pirate and bounty hunter roles being virtually unplayable. its a bit of a mess really.

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then we have to agree to disagree

on what exactly ?

 

[Robert Maynard]

IMO FD should abandon solo mode, or at least stop mode swapping, and concentrate on getting the core gameplay balance right so that everyone can have an enjoyable and rewarding experience in open.

Given the number of players who seem to be quite content with the status quo, I doubt that removing solo or stopping mode swapping would result in everyone having an enjoyable and rewarding experience in open. We have all been told to "play the game how you want to" - what is being proposed is "play the game how we want you to".

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

What snakebite et al refuse to acknowledge is that DB always said to expect PvP to be rare.

Saying there are no traders in the game is poppycock.

There are plenty. Now should the ai traders be tweaked to drop better value cargo, or should the pirate role be fleshed out to have pirate rep etc so they can get more Monet for their goods?.... Sure! But you simply can't force players to bend over and splay their cheeks to be destroyed for giggles losing hrs of play IF they do not want to.

That is forgetting the technical issues of forcing people to play haigh bandwidth online all the time.

There are heaps of asymmetric PvP games out there.,...... And I do not like them which is why I got elite because it isn't one, or at least it does not have to be.

And there is a lot of projection as well about supposedly getting money in solo to then go ganking in all.

Sure some will do that but I believe the majority are more like me.

When they want to be social or maybe competitive they go in all (even in all I never start a fight)

Other times I just want to stick on an audio book and go at my own pace.

Other times the choice is taken from me and I have to play solo due to internet.... But. Some of the people here do not give a toss about that and would say to me tough you are not allowed to play!. So that's not selfish at all then?! ( esp given DB himself said you can play on a train using mobile phone internet in solo. Try doing that in all!)

 

[Robert Maynard]

They also said that you can play the way you want, trader, bounty hunter, pirate.

Solo mode is resulting in both pirate and bounty hunter roles being virtually unplayable. its a bit of a mess really.

I do not recall any of the advertising saying that any of the combative roles would be carried out solely (or even mainly) against other players. There are plenty of NPCs out there after all....

 

[Snakebite]

They can all exist in Private groups though can't they...

No private group is possibly big enough to make it work, in a way the biggest private group is 'open mode' and there are barely enough traders there to make it work.

 

[Jorlin]

on what exactly ?

On the point that seperating modes / closing down solo would be good for the game.

Look, why aren't you a trader in open?
Because it's not what you want to do.
So you play the game as you like it... but others shouldn't do it?

 

[Zeeman]

I'm all for Open, but I have, to be honest, jumped into private, or even solo for various reasons of late. Solo because I wanted to maximise my RES profits, and didn't feel like putting up with frame rate issues as there were a few too many CMDR's at the community goal RES.

And group, as some really cool people I know play in Mobius, and it was great fun Winging it with them for a bit of pew pew.

Back to open for general gameplay though, no issue with PvP or piracy, and seeing as Rares are about all I trade, I'll be a profitable piracy "victim", for those capable of taking down a Python with either skill, pure force in numbers, or both...


I'm also happy to have anyone play in whatever mode they like.

There does, however, need to be some reason for traders to play in open and risk PvP. Perhaps some community goals could be specifically set for open, some for groups/solo. ie - station X is being blockaded by a group of players, and you need to break - through this would require FD and the various player "factions" and groups floating around to talk. The potential is there, though, to have community goals where BOTH sides are players, and both sides have goals to meet - with only the side achieving the higher goal actually being able to claim their full rewards.


Z...

 

[Snakebite]

I do not recall any of the advertising saying that any of the combative roles would be carried out solely (or even mainly) against other players. There are plenty of NPCs out there after all....

There are NPC's and they are usefull as 'filler' but even with modern programming AI is nowhere near good enough to give a really engaging experience. Even the best AI programming soon becomes predictable and repetitive.

To make the game any where near as enaging and 'realistic'as it deserves, it needs the human intellect, we need the unpredictable adaptive tactics that only real humans can adopt. THAT is why multiplayer is so much more attractive a proposition than a solo game against AI. And Elite Dangerous was ALWAYS advertised as a multiplayer game.

The Dilemma is that (as has been repeated stated) is that the roles in elite 'feed' off each other and the role at the bottom has a get out clause, I'm not sure why so many people here are reluctant to accept what is so obvious. which is that if too many people playing the trader role go into solo then the rest of the player base and the game as a whole will only suffer... And what gets me is that really the trader players actually gain nothing from it.

 

[Jorlin]

I'm all for Open, but I have, to be honest, jumped into private, or even solo for various reasons of late.

This almost sounds like an excuse for using features of the game that are intended and meant to be used.

Sad...

 

[Seonid]

No private group is possibly big enough to make it work

Except that a Private Group is often created to specifically make it work, under whatever circumstances that group was created for.
However, that does remove the option of forcing your choice of how to play on other people, which is why this thread exists.

 

[Jorlin]

The Dilemma is that (as has been repeated stated) is that the roles in elite 'feed' off each other and the role at the bottom has a get out clause, I'm not sure why so many people here are reluctant to accept what is so obvious. which is that if too many people playing the trader role go into solo then the rest of the player base and the game as a whole will only suffer... And what gets me is that really the trader players actually gain nothing from it.

Go and fill the role you think is missing....

I gain a lot from playing solo/group.
And i don't mean credits... it's RL related.

Meeting people or making my life more exciting is NO benefit for me!

 

[Dave1235]

pmsl. Lots of funny posts today. I was watching the forums months before the launch of the game. I had already pre-ordered the merc edition. If I believed half the things I had read on the forums, or heard about on other social media I would have asked fro my money back. I didnt because I am a realist and can also sort out the wheat from the chaff. Its your decision at the end of the day, but all the negativity never deterred me.

Yeah, I did smile a bit at the OP (in this last bit), I was typing an answer quite soon after the post but the page crashed, I lost my post (I had spent 10 mins of my lunch hour taking the time to explain some stuff), it did start "fair play for doing some research before you bought the game, rather than buying it with none & complaining / trying to change it after" and "I think you really might like it, you say some of your friends have it already, have a good chat with them, you will value their opinion more than any of ours, if you live close maybe they will let you have a go (I suggest a training mission or two & maybe & sidewinder, you will most likely crash, don't do it in your mates expensive ship that's full of cargo, please , he will be upset).

There were many other answers when I looked again so I left it but I hope the OP (in this last bit) does discuss it with his mates a bit more, have a go and join us, its a great game, it would be a shame if he was put off by not understanding the game & how it works, I got the impression he thought solo was actually "offline" as he put it, if this was a PVP game people grinding an uber ship "offline" to pwn people in open would be a concern, not really a problem here in my opinion.

I agree, if I was reading these forums now I would think twice about buying, I am so glad I bought in back at PB1, I googled it and watched a lot of youtube of people playing the game, the Scott Manley videos really got me even more interested along with many others that normal players posted, hope the OP takes another look here but if not this thread will be on page 4 by the morning and consigned to the void.

 

[Snakebite]

On the point that seperating modes / closing down solo would be good for the game.

Look, why aren't you a trader in open?
Because it's not what you want to do.
So you play the game as you like it... but others shouldn't do it?

I've done a bit of trading, always in open. I decided long ago I'd like to pursue a bounty hunter role, thats my choice.
I've NEVER said anyone should not be allowed to play the game as they like, there are several roles to choose from.

What i've always said is that due to human nature, solo mode is such an obvious draw to the trader role, that many will go that way, to the detriment of the game ultimately for everyone.

 

[Seonid]

What i've always said is that due to human nature, solo mode is such an obvious draw to the trader role, that many will go that way, to the detriment of the game ultimately for everyone.

True, but the other side are the players who simply destroy every trader they see whilst spamming "LOL U DIE NOOB" over the comms. Human nature, as you said.

 

[Jorlin]

I've done a bit of trading, always in open. I decided long ago I'd like to pursue a bounty hunter role, thats my choice.
I've NEVER said anyone should not be allowed to play the game as they like, there are several roles to choose from.

What i've always said is that due to human nature, solo mode is such an obvious draw to the trader role, that many will go that way, to the detriment of the game ultimately for everyone.

I will pick out a quote again, sorry.

"to the detriment of the game ultimately for everyone."

And this is simply wrong. It's not for everyone. It's for you.
It can't be for everyone because it isn't for me.

That's what i dislike the most on this forum.
Generalization, missionaries, holders of the ultimate knowledge and truth.

Accept that people are different.