Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

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Snakebite,

You wrote:

going into solo mode need not be the answer, there are plenty of in-game means to reduce the griefers, idiots etc, almost to zero without resorting to that.

I can and have detail various ways in which pretty much preclude anyone behaving as a griefer in game and really hackers are not going to affect you any more in open than in solo.

At 4,300+ posts, this one mega-thread is less than 1k replies away from exceeding the TOTAL number of posts in the entire "Guides and Tutorials" forum (5,284 posts).

So I say this with all sincerity, (i.e., not trying to troll): If you can write a compelling "Solo trader's guide to Open", and if proves to be non-judgmental, encouraging, and instructive, then maybe it could serve as a useful tutorial going forward (though I doubt it will ever be an approved guide topic... too many burned bridges)
 
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Please explain exactly how is a solo game in any way preferable or superior to a 'properly balanced' multiplayer game.

Please explain exactly how someone playing in open who knows a thing or two about UDP and how to properly route, in any way preferable or superior to a 'properly balanced' solo game?

Your average potato has all the skills needed to turn Open into a completely Solo experience. Annoy a player by forcing them into Open to please you, and they will take great pleasure in making your experience with them in the Open game utterly miserable. RAEG is their goal, and they will get it in glorious buckets amidst whinging cries of "HAXX0RJSTDI3N00B!"

The status quo is best for everyone, and FD have been wise enough to see that.
 
Snakebite, mate, you're on crusade you cannot possibly "win". Very large part of the playerbase is simply uninterested about multiplayer in any shape or form and they will rather quit than accept to take part in something which would resemble typical MMO game. That's not why they are here in first place. Lot of people were financially supporting, and probably much more than that are now bying ED because they've been given freedom to choose the way they play. Part of this has gone when FDEV gave up on offline, but that's whole another topic (also, I don't want to get angry about it again :))

All in all.... I understand your reasoning (well, to a degree), but what you're advocating is just futile. This game is simply not meant to be played like you think it should. It's almost like you're asking devs to make some other game - I hope you see that it's not going to happen.
 
Interesting....

I am one of those that have been gaming since the beginning of PC gaming, and I am glad that there are many of us here. That alone tells me that there is something right with ED. First I can learn figure out how to fly with a mouse (lol), not burn up in a sun, discover better builds and how to defeat npcs....ALL before having to go out and deal with the other players, who from what I can see are better pilots. I truly like that i can play in my little solo instance and not be bothered by those who get there collective giggles from griefing. Nor from those who are role playing being a pirate. That is my choice and the fact that I have that choice is part of what drew me to the game in the first place. Don't get me wrong I sometimes enjoy pvp, heck I used to compete in and test some of the older FPS stuff. When I start to feel comfortable piloting or just bored with trading I already plan on going open for further target practice. When I start running into people of like mind I will more than likely join some sort of group, and group play could be a blast weather in a wing in open or a more laid back evening in a group mode.

I'm here to have fun and being able to choose allows me to have a greater range of fun...
 
I've never seen that type of behaviour in elite, and there are so many way to counter it ever becomming a serious problem.

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I see it different, there is plenty of scope within the multiplayer environment to please everyone, a carefull mix of game mechanics is needed to achieve it but it can be done. There is simply NO NEED for solo mode whatsover and its existence is damaging to the game.


That's the way YOU see it. Some of us will NEVER be pleased in a open environment. Is that so hard to understand? I choose to play solo because that's what I want. You take away solo and you take away the reason and only reason that a large number of people who spent their money on the game to continue. I'm pretty sure judging by some of the other comments in this thread that a good portion would simply leave the game if forced into open by the lack of a solo....why do you think there was so much stink raised when they announced omission of the offline mode?. Is that so hard to understand?. Why to you keep insisting that open offers everything that solo does?. The only thing it does offer is a game mode that a lot of us want nothing to do with. Get it?.
It's solo or no more for me.

This thread should have ended 289 pages ago.....
 
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The Dilemma is that (as has been repeated stated) is that the roles in elite 'feed' off each other and the role at the bottom has a get out clause, I'm not sure why so many people here are reluctant to accept what is so obvious. which is that if too many people playing the trader role go into solo then the rest of the player base and the game as a whole will only suffer... And what gets me is that really the trader players actually gain nothing from it.

That's easy to solve, all you need to do is make 20% of the pirates fly a type6 full of rares 1 or 2 days of the week, just arrange it, take turns, you can provide your own "content", plenty of type 6's full of rares if you all do your bit, even better form a private group, call it hardcore PVP, anyone combat logging gets booted, all play in one place and take turns playing the sheep & the wolf how could you not have fun?

Oh yeah, none of you want to play the sheep, you want to force the rest of us to play that role.
 
I'm not sure why so many people here are reluctant to accept what is so obvious.

Why do you refuse to accept that people bought this game to play it how they want, not how you want them to, how it was designed from the start, how its was launched & the "obvious" recent devs saying they are not going to change it, the "obvious" is that solo, open & groups are here to stay.
 
Please explain exactly how is a solo game in any way preferable or superior to a 'properly balanced' multiplayer game.

Please explain why I should not be able to play in solo, open or groups as I wish, part of the game I spent £100 on > 6 months ago, it has been there from day 1, there at launch and is still here, devs have confirmed its not changing.

You are banging your head against a brick wall, one of them must be hollow because I am hearing a lot of noise.

You are not going to change the fundamental design of this game because you didn't research it or don't like a little part of it, seriously do you really think FD are going to rewrite the game because you and a few dozen others (out of ~ 300k) don't like it.

I suggest you look for a game you will enjoy, I don't understand why you carry on, FD have said they are making the game they want to make, if we want to play "that game" buy it and play it, they are not going to change it for you, I am sorry you bought the wrong game, thanks for your donation.
 
So let me get this straight, the latest round of 'no solo, no switch' futility is based on the concept of 'I'm right, your wrong' and 'you are at the bottom of my food chain'.

With winning arguments like that I can't see how it can fail.

Mate I missed that, I feel so silly now :p, how can we argue against well founded logical opinions, we need help here, call for backup quick :D

Oh lord, I can't believe I made such an epic mistake, on a public form, for the whole world to see, I am so embarrassed I feel like such a fool, google please delete me, I no longer want to exist.

How did I miss the 'I'm right, your wrong' part, I am going to wipe my account & start again, only play in open in a hauler with no shields and doing rares only around lave until I feel my penance is paid, I can't believe I actually thought I could be more than the bottom of someone's food chain when I bought this game, for me to play.

I feel like such a fool.
 
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Doesn't matter how it's dressed up, when all the rhetoric is stripped away this all boils down to a subset of players wanting other players in their game to shoot at. Call it what you will, find new exciting ways to pimp it up but there it is. The end point is when the other players tell you to go hang and the only option open is to take the line of 'if you won't do it voluntarily I will devote my efforts into forcing you'.

It......won't.......work

You think I'm wrong, let's see how it pans out shall we ?
 
Doesn't matter how it's dressed up, when all the rhetoric is stripped away this all boils down to a subset of players wanting other players in their game to shoot at. Call it what you will, find new exciting ways to pimp it up but there it is. The end point is when the other players tell you to go hang and the only option open is to take the line of 'if you won't do it voluntarily I will devote my efforts into forcing you'.

It......won't.......work

You think I'm wrong, let's see how it pans out shall we ?
Whilst you two are enjoying stripping apart that straw man argument: some of us would actually like the multiplayer element of this game to be balanced as a multiplayer game.

If I slave away in open to buy a PvP ship or a better ship for bounty hunting I would rather not go up against guys that farmed a shiny new FDL in solo, and then came to open for griefing purposes. I have no issues with solo mode, but open mode should be separate in terms of credits and assets.
 
This almost sounds like an excuse for using features of the game that are intended and meant to be used.

Sad...

Not really. Its an admission. I'm happy to admit I'll swap between modes for whatever reason, though I still prefer open play overall, and that is where I would stay were I forced to pick one. As is, I'll use the options I have if I need to.

Not sure why that's sad...

Z...
 
Not sure why the following concept seems lost on so many people.

There are four main roles that exist within Elite.

Trading, Pirating, Bounty Hunting, Exploring. (there is also mining but its hardly worth a mention)

Now two of those four roles Pirating and Bounty hunting, CANNOT EXIST if there are no traders in the game.

There are enough NPCs around to allow for both of these roles to viable, you do not need players for that.
 
IMHO one is better advised to let Solo Players play Solo and Open Players their Open Play...
It's not like they're excluding or harming each other or something (exceptions exist though, i.e. Community Goals).

Hint :
You want to give an incentive for Players that left Open Play to return to it?
- Make the fine/bounty for killing a Clean Player 10% of the ship value that was lost or 50000 Cr, whichever is higher
- depending on Rank/Reputation of the destroyed Player, make the governments/Faction run assassination-missions
- alternatively, let the destroyed Player issue System-, Faction- or Government-wide assassination-Missions onto the recorded Killer
- make Governments/Systems remember Killers of their Allies for a 24h cooldown period, indicating them Hostile to all Players w/ Friendly/Allied Status

You get the drift. Put some balance into this critical area that currently has none at all.
I'm sure that would help getting people consider and appreciate Open Play better.

I play solo simply because computer games is something I like to do when I can't be bothered with dealing with people. When i want to meet people, I'll go to the pub or something. It really is that simple. Nothing to do with playing an "easy" mode. Not that anyone should really care if it was.

OK, here's a relatively simple solution for anyone worried about "solo exploits"-

The game economy is already tied to main server. It also, I believe keeps track of who is doing what where. So if a large group of high level player pirates is operating in a given area, it should be possible for the server to generate similar levels of NPC activity for players in solo or group.

I really like these ideas as they seem to answer alot of concerns. They make it more dangerous for the true pirates and the wannabe pirate griefers, yet also make it more dangerous for the solo mode players by scaling the NPCs up in areas where there is alot of pirate activity in open.


This isn't a bad idea. I don't yet play in solo but I might do in future. Unfortunately this idea won't appease the people complaining, remember they don't think it is right that solo players influence the open play universe so logically they don't think it is right for the reverse to happen.

People in solo/group already effect open players game play and vice versa.

1. When you make trades you are affecting the prices no matter which mode you are in.
2. When you do missions or go bounty hunting or act in conflict zones, you are affecting the balance of who has control of the system for players in all modes of play.

So I believe scaling the NPCs to make them more aggressive for solo/group in systems where the danger exists in open would be a way to make it more balanced between the modes. As I said I have played in both solo and open and solo is to safe in comparison.


Not sure why the following concept seems lost on so many people.

There are four main roles that exist within Elite.

Trading, Pirating, Bounty Hunting, Exploring. (there is also mining but its hardly worth a mention)

Now two of those four roles Pirating and Bounty hunting, CANNOT EXIST if there are no traders in the game.

The irony is that whilst people who want to play as either a pirate or a bounty hunter absolutely NEED traders to support the food chain, Traders can actually progress quicker by avoiding multiplayer and sticking to solo.

Why this is beyond anyones comprehension is beyond me.

The more irony is that I suspect that if traders did not have the option of hiding in solo mode then they would not actually enjoy the game any less. They would probably have more fun, but human nature is to take the easy route so they do.

I agree with this more so with the last statement. If going the easy route wasn't the preferred method then hack sites and pay to win games would not be as popular as they are now. +1 Rep to you


In closing I will add this

People in open have a point in saying that why should someone who trades in solo mode which can be alot safer as all you have to deal with is AI Pirates (speaking as someone who has played in both) get the same benefit as someone that faces all the same AI Pirates as well as the human pirates. Either the solo/group AI should be scaled based on the activity occurring in an open system like suggested above, or there needs to be a bonus for playing in open as it is the most dangerous. Right now this game should basically be called "Elite Dangerous For Those That Don't Play Solo/Group".

I am not saying to make them play open but it needs a balancing to make it as dangerous for solo/group as it is for open or open bonus need to be implemented.
 
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Never going to happen, and no reason it could ever be enforced. Dude, do you even route?
Oh I doubt it will happen, it's too late for that. They can't split it up this late after release.

It was a silly idea on FD's part though.

And I'm not quit sure what you mean by "it could never be enforced"?
 
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