Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[DaveB]

...It just feels like it is a way to push peoples legitimate concerns under the rug...

Except in ED this is NOT a "legitimate concern." It is how the game always has been, is now and will continue to be, and this has always been openly stated. If you don't like it, well, it isn't going to change so you (and everyone else who keeps spouting about mode switching) have to ask yourself if it bothers you enough to stop you playing or not.

If it does, we'll miss you but we will keep playing.
If it doesn't then fergawdssake pipe down.

 

[Vergoth]

Gonna add my 2 cents.

It's my personal opinion that having the game segregated into the various solo/group/open formats will hold back the games potential. Elite: dangerous is one of the most engrossing and immersive games I have played to date. So much so that I have an EDTracker and x-55 HOTAS just to play it.

I enjoy every aspect of the game, however it feels as if the developers set their sights low, and I mean very low. sure the universe is big however I wouldn't say it is very rich and diverse. If the developers want the game to remain a back and forth trader or a basic space shooter in the form of bounty hunting then its perfect the way it is.

I have imagined huge fleet battles, capital ship warfare, large trade convoys, mining operations that utilise a train of lakons to transport the goods to station (guarded by vipers of course!) with enough payout to make everyone rich etc... but I don't think elite will evolve into this, whether it be because the developers do not want their game to be that or because the player base is segregated into the different groups. If your trading solo, what possible reason is there to play in open play? thus diluting the universe.

If group play and solo were removed, the universe would start to come alive. people would trade in convoys, bounty hunters could actually hunt real pirates for real rewards, people would start to work together (like most of elite's trailers suggest). There is a but to this..

The cap on how many players can be rendered in an instance would have to be removed or raised significantly. This hinders the fleet warfare I mentioned earlier. I don't know if this is technically possible to change.

In closing - Open play is the way forward. The developers have shot themselves in the foot by offering a solo mode, while keen to appeal to fans of the original, they have severely handicapped the games ability to evolve and compete with other offerings such as star citizen.

 

[Dave1235]

It does make a difference when a persons actions in game affect the universe in all modes

FD have stated from the start that this would be the case, why did you buy the game if this is such a big problem for you?

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

I question why this Megathread is still active and alive. Its obvious that everyone is entitled to their gameplay style and choices, even if its wrong!

 

[Sim Maker]

FD have stated from the start that this would be the case, why did you buy the game if this is such a big problem for you?

I am looking forward to mroe Nerfs to trading (or buffs to other careers). If Solo and Open are to be forever more, then the Devs have to make sure that Solo is as "Dangerous" as Open............then the rewards can be the same.........Or............make the rewards for Open play much higher than those for Solo.......I mean why would Solo players care, if they are onlyplaying against themselves? If they THINK they are competing with other players, they are delluding themselves becasue Solo IS the easy mode (and I play solo and have fought to keep it as you have).......
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there is a mode where it really does'nt matter....and that is Exploring, as you don't really see peopel out there anyway........I can see them rewarding the same or similar.....

 

[k9transfer]

I play, trade, bounty hunt, etc, only on open play. If I encountered another CMDR I try to rule play it, not necessarily go straight to PvP. I have found almost everyone I encounter enjoys this and goes along with it. ED had one of the best communities I have ever encountered. There are a few griefers like any other game but they seem to be less in number. Even most pirates I have run across are not interested in destroying other players for the hell of it and are open to communication. Just saying. ..

 

[Lucifer Hate]

Except in ED this is NOT a "legitimate concern." It is how the game always has been, is now and will continue to be, and this has always been openly stated. If you don't like it, well, it isn't going to change so you (and everyone else who keeps spouting about mode switching) have to ask yourself if it bothers you enough to stop you playing or not.

If it does, we'll miss you but we will keep playing.
If it doesn't then fergawdssake pipe down.

Actually my thread that got put in here was community goals so it is not the way its always been on that as that is still a fairly new feature. Yes it does bother me enough when it is gamebreaking balance issue. I have requested refund from frontier support and they told me to post the issue on the forums so the devs can see it. I showed them what happens when we do that the threads get thrown into a massive mega thread that the devs wont read due to time it would take to read all the replies. That in itself is shoddy customer support at best.

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I question why this Megathread is still active and alive. Its obvious that everyone is entitled to their gameplay style and choices, even if its wrong!

Because as stated by forum staff this post is the merge target for posts where people are not happy with the features, which counters what customer service tells you to do by posting on the forums for devs to see

 

[2chill]

Custard or Ice Cream?

 

[Sim Maker]

Actually my thread that got put in here was community goals so it is not the way its always been on that as that is still a fairly new feature. Yes it does bother me enough when it is gamebreaking balance issue. I have requested refund from frontier support and they told me to post the issue on the forums so the devs can see it. I showed them what happens when we do that the threads get thrown into a massive mega thread that the devs wont read due to time it would take to read all the replies. That in itself is shoddy customer support at best.

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Because as stated by forum staff this post is the merge target for posts where people are not happy with the features, which counters what customer service tells you to do by posting on the forums for devs to see

YOU have a legit issue.....I say this as a Solo player.......it needs adressing or some sort of comment on why they want it to go on as-is.......
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I would suggest, stepping away form the forums, gather your thoughts, and then spend a few moments this evening putting them in to calm clear words..........then post it in to the Suggestions or Bugs forum as a "Game Breaker" or some such..........but not until tomorrow when the Devs are about.........let them have a coffee first. Then, hope for the best.........and just try and be cool........"I really love playing this game and want to continue, but........." works so much better than "You guys really screwed up, how could you do this to me, this is stupid................".........

 

[Asp Explorer]

In it simplest implementation it would be about 10 mins coding time

It could be as simple as: after 10 hrs gameplay you can't change modes without a restart. Braben could do that on his lunch break if he wanted.

I don't wan't to seem confrontational Snakebite, but obviously you've never coded anything to production. It simply isn't a case of "Hey - I can code this in ten seconds!" even if you could very easily do that - it's a case of "Hey - what happens to everything else with this ten seconds of code included" - which can literally take years to fully investigate impacts.

I am still running jobs coded in the 60's and 70's, on hardware released last year. Business depends upon them - and any new code introduced absolutely has to let those old jobs run without detriment, so it's not uncommon for some shiny new stuff to be two or three years old in test before it's actually put into production.

 

[Dave1235]

Although I wasn't addressed, I did exactly that back in Yembo.

Solo : ultra-easy mode. I could have grinded that in a shieldless Type-9, for as long as I could stand the grind. Delivered ~26000tons within 6 hours or so. Good chances of making Top spot, for a brief Moment I made it #4 overall.

Open : holy moly! Ultra-hardcore mode instead. I only risked a Type-6 and was glad I used this ride - Interdiction Hell deluxe! Never did so many PvP Evasions in my whole life. Barely managed ~400tons through that Chaos. Reaching top 5% or even top spots? Not a chance in hell.

It was a hughe difference, at least during busy Play hours. So hughe, there were Lightyears between Solo and Open when drawn on a difficulty scale.
I fully expected action to pick up significantly and was ready for it - but what I saw in Open was insane. After 2 hours I was finished and done for, all sweaty. Loved the intense action - but I'm too old for these intensity levels

That's interesting, thanks for the info I have not been to one yet.

I do enjoy a bit of PVP now and again, its been quite a while, I might take a look in my new Asp, when I have a bit more insurance or even buy a cheaper ship for the occasion.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

YOU have a legit issue.....I say this as a Solo player.......it needs adressing or some sort of comment on why they want it to go on as-is.......
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I would suggest, stepping away form the forums, gather your thoughts, and then spend a few moments this evening putting them in to calm clear words..........then post it in to the Suggestions or Bugs forum as a "Game Breaker" or some such..........but not until tomorrow when the Devs are about.........let them have a coffee first. Then, hope for the best.........and just try and be cool........"I really love playing this game and want to continue, but........." works so much better than "You guys really screwed up, how could you do this to me, this is stupid................".........

I am thinking someone from their offices must be there because of how fast my ticket got its 1st reply. I have enjoyed Elite since I played the 1st 1 on the commodore 64 as a teen. This game has so much potential but things like this will ruin it not to mention the console release concerns me more about the way features will go

 

[Sim Maker]

I am thinking someone from their offices must be there because of how fast my ticket got its 1st reply. I have enjoyed Elite since I played the 1st 1 on the commodore 64 as a teen. This game has so much potential but things like this will ruin it not to mention the console release concerns me more about the way features will go

I agree with you, I really do........and as said, I am a solo player, never even accidentally pressed Open.......but.....
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I can see how Solo play, when put in to a competative situation with Open play, just does not work at the moment........Open players are pretty much attacking or blockade running a fleet of Star Destroyers.....and Open players are holding hands with the Munchkins and singing songs as they head down the Yellow Brick Road to Oz..................I don;t see hwo any can argue that it's fair........the only ones who seem to think so are those that argue that it is NOT FAIR that Open players get bigger rewards as they should get the same rewards for being in the same Galaxy....
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Without realising of course, that their galaxy is NOT the same, as it does not have the danger element.....but, interestingly, this is one element of "the same galaxy" that they are NOT arguing for........... It seesm they just want an easy option.....
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It is not fair that you train for years and eat all the right foods to become a famous sprinter......people that eat cheeseburgers and never exercise should win the same race too........er...........

 

[Vergoth]

I am thinking someone from their offices must be there because of how fast my ticket got its 1st reply. I have enjoyed Elite since I played the 1st 1 on the commodore 64 as a teen. This game has so much potential but things like this will ruin it not to mention the console release concerns me more about the way features will go

These are exactly my thoughts. The game will suffer in the end

 

[Dave1235]

I can confirm they are easier. That doesn't mean its easy to the point of you can never die. But it just feels more balanced (AND THUS MORE FUN). Like I said in my main post - the biggest difference is that NPC's won't target you because its fun to kill the little lone guy who just dropped into the zone. They will fight all and everyone with no bias towards the weak. This has the effect of giving everyone an even chance in the chaos of a large battle.

Last night this just wasn't happening. There were very few people backing the Crimson State and everytime I dropped into the Conflict Zone I was singled out by the real players in their big ships within seconds. I had zero chance.

I also witnessed fewer large ships - I'm only guessing here but it felt like Frontier were scaling the NPC's relative to your ship and skill.

Also interesting, there was talk (DDF I think) about making the transponders the same for players and AI on radar, I doubt its going to happen though, a bit late to change it now.

 

[Dave1235]

I am looking forward to mroe Nerfs to trading (or buffs to other careers). If Solo and Open are to be forever more, then the Devs have to make sure that Solo is as "Dangerous" as Open............then the rewards can be the same.........Or............make the rewards for Open play much higher than those for Solo.......I mean why would Solo players care, if they are onlyplaying against themselves? If they THINK they are competing with other players, they are delluding themselves becasue Solo IS the easy mode (and I play solo and have fought to keep it as you have).......
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there is a mode where it really does'nt matter....and that is Exploring, as you don't really see peopel out there anyway........I can see them rewarding the same or similar.....

I have no issue with the balancing of the roles but that is different to rewarding / nerfing different modes, and FD have stated its not going to happen, Robert Maynard has linked the Dev quote a few times in this thread.

Wings are out now, an improvement for some of the roles, mining will be improved, MB said it was bare bones at release.

I would say open & groups are safer than solo, they have the option to fly with 3 other players to back them up, solo players don't.

I did play open from PB1 to mid gamma, I may well go back at some point, I just don't think penalising people for how they want to play, which might be different from day to day is a positive thing.

 

[SiriusSeven]

.Open players are pretty much attacking or blockade running a fleet of Star Destroyers.....and Open players are holding hands with the Munchkins and singing songs as they head down the Yellow Brick Road to Oz

Just do what I do: Run the blockade in Solo, then log into Open and attack from behind!

*Lasers down! I'm just kidding, people! I'm just kidding!*

 

[Faded Glory]

It's strange that people post prophesies of doom, about how solo/group/open modes and mode switching will ruin the game... It seems that for many people, presumably from all the modes, 1.2 has given the game a positive boost, and I think it's fair to say that the game has not seemed in danger of collapse since December last year, and FD have consistently maintained that they are looking to the future with both free and paid for updates and expansions.

It's also clear that some people would love to see an open galaxy of convoys of traders, supported by fighters for hire, dodging or fighting off pirates, of blockades and space battles on an epic scale, affecting the Universe we all fly around in, and while those ideas do sound as though they might be fun, the technical limitations of the game (instancing with the ability to see only a limited amount of other real CMDR's), not to mention the fact that not everybody plays the game to the same schedule or at the same time, means that these things are never going to work for everybody all the time. If that were the model however, someone who enjoys playing the game when they have the time would be at a huge disadvantage when they log in to trade for a couple of hours on their own, being targeted by hardcore online gamers, and probably the game would rapidly lose it's appeal for them. The flexibility of being able to switch between the modes however, offers this gamer the chance to join in with the open Galaxy when circumstances are right for them, perhaps when they do have friends who are online at the same time, thus enriching open mode at least some of the time, something that locking them into a single mode might very well prevent.

I don't think there's a right or wrong in this (very protracted) discussion, just people's preferences as to how they want to use their own leisure time. Honestly, I think that the influence a single player has on the environment is tiny, probably nowhere near enough to break a blockade by trading solo, and in any case, the outcome of events is not truly dynamic, FD choose whether a blockade has worked, or if a faction has influenced a system to a critical level, and since they can distinguish between solo and open players, perhaps they already take that into account.

 

[Jockey79]

Robert Maynard has linked the Dev quote a few times in this thread.

Don't forget me !!!

The link in my Sig to the Dev stuff and DDA and KS info... I do repost it from time to time for those to lazy to click it

lol

 

[Sim Maker]

I have no issue with the balancing of the roles but that is different to rewarding / nerfing different modes, and FD have stated its not going to happen, Robert Maynard has linked the Dev quote a few times in this thread.

Wings are out now, an improvement for some of the roles, mining will be improved, MB said it was bare bones at release.

I would say open & groups are safer than solo, they have the option to fly with 3 other players to back them up, solo players don't.

I did play open from PB1 to mid gamma, I may well go back at some point, I just don't think penalising people for how they want to play, which might be different from day to day is a positive thing.

"I would say open & groups are safer than solo" - The Evidence does not seem to agree with your assumptions.......
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Testing done by poster FalconFly:
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Solo : ultra-easy mode. I could have grinded that in a shieldless Type-9, for as long as I could stand the grind. Delivered ~26000tons within 6 hours or so. Good chances of making Top spot, for a brief Moment I made it #4 overall.
.
Open : holy moly! Ultra-hardcore mode instead. I only risked a Type-6 and was glad I used this ride - Interdiction Hell deluxe! Never did so many PvP Evasions in my whole life. Barely managed ~400tons through that Chaos. Reaching top 5% or even top spots? Not a chance in hell.
=============================================
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And why do you think the Devs made the Elite contest to the 10,000 pounds, ONLY available, to Open players?.........did you kick up a fuss about that? "Its not fair, why should'tn solo players get the same money if they get there first?".........
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The Devs seemed ok to incetivise Open play then, lets hope they do it through game Mechanics.........you can keep your safe Space Trucking world, and the Open players can go for Bigger prizes.........and there is nothing to stop you swtiching to Open and having a go at them yourself.....same for everyone......