Never thought I would say this but..... I am thinking I may not order CV1 after all.

[9of9]

It's nice to have some healthy competition I guess. Facebook stuff aside (and it's not clear if there is any Facebook stuff to speak of, there's nothing to suggest CV1 will differ substantially in implementation from the DK2), while the VIVE looks interesting, I'm sceptical of the extent to which it improves on Oculus' work. Yes, you can move around a certain area of floor space (as long as you have the floorspace and can put your lighthouses in good locations for it) but you're still going to have a bunch of headset wires keeping you tethered to your machine. It's nice to have special controllers, but that's a very specific setup that only a few people will likely be able to take full advantage of. Comparing it to what we know of Crescent Bay - which has better camera tracking (and 360' rotational tracking) you could really achieve a fairly similar result, especially if they decide to ship with controllers or if the price difference allows you to justify buying extra controller hardware for the CV1.

And, at the same time, if the CV1 is 1440p90 then it's got the VIVE beat in terms of resolution: that's 1280x1440 per eye versus the VIVE's 1200x1080. The main thing I was curious about is that perhaps, with two separate screens, the VIVE would offer a significantly improved field of view, adjusting the lenses so there's more peripheral vision, but judging from journalists describing hands-on experiences, it doesn't seem like there's much difference in that regard between any of the headsets (Crescent Bay reportedly also having a much improved FOV over DK2). So... yeah, it's not really clear cut, none of them have a strong advantage over the other, but my gut for now would be to go with CV1's higher res. Obviously once we have more info on price points and final specs is when we can really start assessing the products, but so far it's pretty close.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I thought Oculus was away working on input devices.

Good news Mad Mike, from El Reg Elite will support VIVE...

http://m.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/...ont_dumb_down_elite_dangerous_for_xbox_build/

looks like you still have that difficult choice to make

this choice is EASY so long as all content works on both platforms.... well maybe not easy per se but risk free imo.

So long as I can play all ocntent on which ever headset i get, I am not that bothered. Both my use different strategies for accomplishing the same thing but bottom line, I suspect once the dust settles both devices will probably be fairly comparrable imo. one may have a slight edge over the other, but if it does then you can bet it will cost more as well.

so long as all games work on both, even if you make the "wrong" decision its not the end of the world (looks over at my HDDVD player and thinks back to my CD32 purchase). I would like some form of confirmation however that games will not need to be made specifically for each device, or at least that converting one to the other will be trivial

 

[BishopC]

I dread a VR war, where every developer has to make a specific solution for every single headset. So I am hoping that we will end with AMD's (already published) and perhaps Nvidias VR solution only, I think optimizing for 2 is reasonable.
Also have to grab into the cliche box, Vives upstanding Holodeck approach is cool, but not very practical, I think. Sounds a lot like Kinect to me, even in my very tech-afficionado peer, only one has a Kinect, since it always is a damn hassel to set it up, moving furniture and setting lights up correctly.... And (here comes the cliche) this tech peer is not very "sporty", so everything that exceeds "moving the wrist" is considered exhausting

I would love if Rift will surprise everyone and adds the Nimble tech into CV1, but I don't think so, doing so without dev preview would only mean "No software at all", which would render it useless. A shame, really. Spatial Audio is nice, but (I want to say the real f word, damn swear filter) everyone moves his hands in front of his head, it would be crazy more immersive if you could see them with the default hardware.

 

[Ortikon]

I dread a VR war, where every developer has to make a specific solution for every single headset. So I am hoping that we will end with AMD's (already published) and perhaps Nvidias VR solution only, I think optimizing for 2 is reasonable.
Also have to grab into the cliche box, Vives upstanding Holodeck approach is cool, but not very practical, I think. Sounds a lot like Kinect to me, even in my very tech-afficionado peer, only one has a Kinect, since it always is a damn hassel to set it up, moving furniture and setting lights up correctly.... And (here comes the cliche) this tech peer is not very "sporty", so everything that exceeds "moving the wrist" is considered exhausting

I would love if Rift will surprise everyone and adds the Nimble tech into CV1, but I don't think so, doing so without dev preview would only mean "No software at all", which would render it useless. A shame, really. Spatial Audio is nice, but (I want to say the real f word, damn swear filter) everyone moves his hands in front of his head, it would be crazy more immersive if you could see them with the default hardware.

Competition is huge. It pushes to make things better, even if we see a few products die from rapid development. Seeing as everything is relatively universal now with USB and the example of how bloody long Track IR has survived as a lone wolf. People will still use trackIR too, not everbody likes screens on their faces but still like the head track.

Seeing hands in front of your face? I've tried it at an indie dev conference. They rigged a hacked Kinect into their system, you stand T-Pose for a moment and it tracks your whole body, look down and wiggle your feet etc. The body was very rudimentary (think goldeneye) but the effect it had on my presence in the scene was enjoyably disturbing. Removing the rift I had an equally hard time adapting back into the real world as I did when I was put in the game (I mean this in a good way)
This was not for any specific game, it was more of a system this team was working on.

 

[Mazhurg]

Lots of angst out there on the net. There is also a big case of "here be baubles". My take:

Its a great thing that competition is setting in the VR space. Note that the only one proven system (and available) so far is Oculus. Valve is aiming at the high end (and prices will show), Morpheus at the PS4, Gear at mobile and Oculus at the PC mass market so in the end while there is some overlap they all have their target.

GDC is not really a fora to announce hardware even as some do take the opportunity. Note that AMD has the R9-390x pretty much ready but only hinted at it, while NVIDIA only showed that they have a Titanx (no specs). Oculus instead decided to dwell in the development subjects of the conference and we know that they intend to release something this year (something that Steam, Samsung and Sony had not until now). Is it going to come out at the same level as the Steam product? Probably not as versatile (ie lacking input) but will include probably jut as good (or better) visual and integrated sound - and likely much more affordable than Vive.

So, in the end - there will be choices, and that is will be good for the ecosystem (and my pocketbook)

 

[hawkjon]

I wouldn't start getting disappointed yet... I've heard from a source that has recently viewed both the HTC Vive prototype and the latest prototype of the Oculus Rift and their comment was that the latest Rift was sharper with better image quality.

I would wait to see what both the Oculus Rift CV1 and the Consumer HTC Vive have in store before jumping to conclusions.

Neither has produced a final production unit fit for consumers yet so things may go back and forth for a while as they iron out all of the issues.

Also, John Carmack talks about new optics in the Gear VR that will be coming in the consumer verision...

"The consumer version should have better optics, thanks to what he said the research team expects to be a "breakthrough" in getting images to show up perfectly through VR lenses, no matter where the user is looking."

I would think that the Oculus Rift would get these same optics which hopefully would improve all of the edge distortion on the DK2.

Full article: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/oculus-ready-to-go-full-consumer-on-gear-vr-later-this-year/

 

[Thoemse]

I think people should stay calm and see the valve thing as it is: A great step forward for VR.
If i buy a CV1 or a Vive (or both!) is entirely dependant on quality. Only because there was no huge announcement by oculus it doesn't mean CV1 will be great.

If vive releases before them and games support is good i will buy it though.

 

[Gannopen]

I can't find the other article now, but NVidia's possible offering is a wireless headmounted VR version of the SHIELD with built in CPU and GPU. Decent PC and wifi, decent performance from a wireless VR streaming it and it makes me think about straying from the DK2

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-unveiling-vr-headset-gdc/

 

[Howl_UK]

I think most enthusiasts will get the first one to market. If Valve couple the release with a killer game title (and you know they will) then people will go berserk.

EDIT: Off-topic, even ignoring SteamVR, they will sell a LOT of Steam controllers and Steam Links. I know I'll be getting both of them the second you can pre-order.

 

[CMDR Saari]

"The consumer version should have better optics, thanks to what he said the research team expects to be a "breakthrough" in getting images to show up perfectly through VR lenses, no matter where the user is looking."

I would think that the Oculus Rift would get these same optics which hopefully would improve all of the edge distortion on the DK2.

For me, this and higher resolution to reduce SDE are crucial to the CV1 (and any other HMD for that matter) to be viable. I got my DK2 fully aware of the limitations; I just think I was hoping I wouldn't be as bothered by the SDE as I am... My eyes keep trying to focus on it (the space between pixels) which leads to some discomfort after a while.

If Valve couple the release with a killer game title (and you know they will) then people will go berserk.

Hmm... should I even say Half-Life 3?

 

[Masta Squidge]

Candy crush is a game....

You do know facebook owns a ton of other companies that have nothing to do with... facebook. A total of 52 companies outside of their "brand" name.

Right?


It is possible for them to be smart enough at this point to know better than to shove facebook down everyone's throats. You can clearly see that they care about the user's experience simply in their actual Facebook social media platform. Remember why myspace and g+ and so many others failed so hard? Because they didn't pay any attention to what users needed vs what they wanted. At all. Facebook has been spot on in the past with everything they have done, from a user's standpoint, and you don't see "Facebook" logos plastered all over the user experiences of basically any of their other companies. At worst, you see links to share to facebook. Or maybe a quip at the bototm of the page about copyright blah blah whatever year 'Facebook'.

 

[tinimark]

For me, this and higher resolution to reduce SDE are crucial to the CV1 (and any other HMD for that matter) to be viable. I got my DK2 fully aware of the limitations; I just think I was hoping I wouldn't be as bothered by the SDE as I am... My eyes keep trying to focus on it (the space between pixels) which leads to some discomfort

Have you done the matte screen protector mod? It's not a perfect solution but def helps take the focus away from SDE.
i was quite sensitive to it at first but now hardly notice it. DK2 is pretty easy to take apart, took me about 20 to 30 mins to do and cost about 5 quid.

 

[CMDR Saari]

Have you done the matte screen protector mod? It's not a perfect solution but def helps take the focus away from SDE.

I was thinking about it. I read several reports from people who have done it and it seems to go back and forth on whether or not its worth it...

I take it you've had a good experience with that mod then? It doesn't darken the image or make it too blurry? I might just go ahead and go for it anyway.

 

[tinimark]

I was thinking about it. I read several reports from people who have done it and it seems to go back and forth on whether or not its worth it...

I take it you've had a good experience with that mod then? It doesn't darken the image or make it too blurry? I might just go ahead and go for it anyway.

It's hard to say. I had the DK2 for about a week and got annoyed with the SDE so did the mod. I wouldn't say it blurs the image or makes it significantly darker. If you focus up close you can see the matte effect of the protector but it certainly lessons the effect of the SDE.

Having not taken it back off, it's hard for me to compare but I have no desire to remove it now.

One good thing, if you try it and don't like it, it's easy to revert back again and for just a few quid...nothing ventured - nothing gained.

I got these ones: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-x-Matte...713?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2eccb24ca9

There's a guide on how to take the DK2 apart here:https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Oculus+Rift+Development+Kit+2+Teardown/27613

Good luck

 

[CMDR Saari]

It's hard to say. I had the DK2 for about a week and got annoyed with the SDE so did the mod. I wouldn't say it blurs the image or makes it significantly darker. If you focus up close you can see the matte effect of the protector but it certainly lessons the effect of the SDE.

Having not taken it back off, it's hard for me to compare but I have no desire to remove it now.

One good thing, if you try it and don't like it, it's easy to revert back again and for just a few quid...nothing ventured - nothing gained.

I got these ones: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-x-Matte-...item2eccb24ca9

There's a guide on how to take the DK2 apart here:https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Ocul...Teardown/27613

Good luck

Thanks for all the info! I'm going to go for it; I just ordered some screen protectors from Amazon, should be here tomorrow.


UPDATE: Received my screen protectors and managed to get one applied to my DK2. I must say, that was quite the harrowing experience! Not difficult necessarily but nerve-wracking with those tiny ribbon cables and having to get down through all those layers (including the motherboard) just to get to the screen.

And to top it off, I'm not even sure I like it... Yes, it noticeably reduced the SDE but at the cost of making everything slightly more... indistinct I guess is the right word. Not blurry exactly but I did have more difficulty reading text in the Nav list and such using the same HUD colors as before. Background stars appear more diffuse too and some colors seem to bleed more (blueish green surprisingly, not red). I only got to play for little more than an hour today and will continue testing over the weekend before deciding if I want to dig back down there and remove it.

 

[Caspar]

I'm also surprised - and a bit disappointed - that Oculus have let Valve and Sony make a lot of noise about VR without getting a word in edgewise. Having had a DK2 for a week now, I'm wondering if Oculus is stalled trying to come up with a solution to the problem of the need for higher res screens vs. PC performance impact.

It will be difficult to push "consumer" VR if, in addition to a $350 Rift, people are told they need to buy a $600 graphics card (2 really if you want to play anything on settings above medium) in order to push images at 1440p 90Hz <-- rumored specs of CV1

This is an area where Sony could have a slight advantage: due to Project Morpheus being a game console peripheral, you know that it will "just work" right out of the box with anything compatible with it. However, I'm wary of Sony add-on tech after the way they pushed PlayStation Move so hard only to drop support for it almost immediately. The last thing I need is more expensive console equipment that only works for the two games it launched with...

The Vive definitely looks like something to keep an eye on, but I agree with Mad Mike that PC games need to support all HMDs and not just one or the other. I don't want a "console war" to start over PC VR.

In many respects, I think you're right. The industry is just about capable, but it's obvious at the moment that the outlay for the supporting hardware as well as the visor is going to be huge. It's not going to reach critical mass at those prices. This may all turn out to be a bit of a false start.

 

[Tempered]

Oculus will team up with microsoft and make an xbox version of the Rift to go along with the release of ED on the xbox. Microsoft is afraid that if valve and htc succeed, gamers will buy a steam gaming box (which runs linux) and dump windows.

Meanwhile, while all of the phone screen in your face vr companies compete for top dog, CastAR will quietly make inroads into the average home

 

[Frank]

I thought Microsoft had already responded to this interest in VR. They decided to FUD things up with a science fiction movie called "HoloLens".

 

[Kyokushin]

I was expecting big things from Oculus this week, exp after all the valve stuff.

It is possible Oculus are just keeping quiet but the only noises from the Rift camp have been about their mobile stuff with nothing about their PC HMD.

I must admit, even if oculus announced pre-orders from today for summer deliveries......... 3 days ago I would have been throwing my money at it, but right now......

I am questioning if maybe all the nay sayers and doom mongers were not actually on the money after the facebook buy out and oculus are now FAR more interested in mass market mobile phone appeal.

Certainly its a long way from the Palmer Lucky of a few years ago saying things like even the next gen consoles are too weak for VR, if a phone can do it, a ps4 can do it!!!.

I may still go oculus, but imo Valve/HTC are making way better noises right now for the pc user imo

I just hope that all these HMDs are cross compatible. Apparently there have been noises from oculus that this may not be the case - tho i cant find a direct link right now to support.

Resolution is the key. If somebody will offer 4K - he win.
Money is not the problem in that case.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I see Oculus have released more info about their Crescent bay prototype.

much like the valve/HTC offering crescent bay also uses 2 separate screens.

I must admit, so long as it works then... what ever.... but I suspect 1 screen solved many issues. No worries about slight differences in brightness / colour reproduction differences between screens, not issues having to sync both screens perfectly, and then of course, the price and double the points of failure.

still, oculus know what they are doing, and, on the bright side it sounds like tech wise both units under the hood outside of their tracking tech, may actaully be very similar, which I guess can only be a good thing for increasing our chances of multi HMDF support in all titles.

I am glad I have my DK2 however. I can make do until both HMDs are our and make an informed choice.

if I didnt have my DK2 there is no way I would resist just jumping on the 1st one which came out