Inside Black Hole

Eros

Eros
We know of two very extreme classes of stars out there, plenty of them have been observed and all point to exotic matter, even the mass ranges that the stars inhabit match our theories... so the evidence fits pretty well

These are White dwarfs, and neutron stars

Both of these classes of objects are held up by degeneracy pressure. White dwarfs are held up by electron degeneracy and Chandrasekhar postulated that the maximum mass of a stellar remnant that is electron degenerate is 1.39 Solar masses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrasekhar_limit

Now what happens we we pass that limit? well then we delve into neutron degeneracy and neutron stars... the limit of this is analogous to the Chandrasekhar limit. It is known as the Tolman–Oppenheimer–Volkoff limit, and represents matter that has been squeezed so much that the electron orbitals are close to or within the nucleus itself, and the protons begin to interact with the electrons and convert into neutrons via inverse beta decay. The limit is about 3 solar masses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolman–Oppenheimer–Volkoff_limit

So we have models for these two classes of extreme object, and indeed we do not see any white dwarfs bigger than this 1.4 Solar Mass limit, nor neutron stars greater than 3 solar masses. So our understanding of quantum mechanics and Atomic physics appears validated. So what happens when you go further than 3 solar masses in a compressed space? Well we don't really know. BUT what we do know is that for the density of the objects in excess of 3 solar masses, that are neutron degenerate, the solution of the now rather simple treatment of newtonian physics, setting C to the escape velocity of a massive object, and you do come close to the conditions set out above.

We also do have evidence for massive invisible/unobserved objects in the milky way, the biggest being at the centre of the milkyway. To flat out deny their existence is to sweep so much supporting evidence under the rug and simply to shake your head at a wealth of data Vladimar Rubicon...

All theories and things that do this don't appear to hold up to scrutiny in all cases and do not explain our observations.
 

Spam

Spam
Eros - Wow, my eyes just did a 360 reading that. Several in fact. I think they are still spinning.

I bet you wear a white lab coat and have crazy Gandalf-esque white hair.
 

CMDR Sheehy

CMDR Sheehy
The problem with Hawking and black holes is that there are competing theories that you have to reconcile. One says Data from the universe cannot be lost. Hawking Radiation suggests that black holes can indeed evaporate. The way it does this means that the Data from the universe is indeed lost.

This is a problem when we try to 'unify' theories and try to get at the "Theory of Everything." So while one theory may indicate that such object are indeed theoretically impossible due to being unable to reconcile the theories. Hence something is wrong - hence black holes can't exist. This is a false assumption that the universe has to exist according to how we see it, rather than universe not caring the ens what we think of it. Instead, our theories must live inside the correct frame of reference. Hence in the right frame data indeed data is not lost. However, at the event horizon this frame of reference no longer exists and another must be take up to fulfil the circumstances at which Hawking Radiation now allows for the destruction of data beyond the event horizon.

What this really means is that it is very hard to make a decent cup of tea once you've passed the event horizon of a black hole and therefore it is not conducive to long periods of study. Forget gravity... pffft.
 

DavidLasher

DavidLasher
Vladimar Rubicon said:
ED has the freedom to make Black Holes into anything they want- they could be tunnels (worm holes) into another part of the galaxy, or maybe a portal into another star system that only exists within the "bubble" of that hole.... The thing is, Black Holes have just recently been proven to be the far fetched myth that they first were thought to be.

And since they aren't real, or even possible given the latest findings, then Ed could really just go and make them into anything they wanted without leaping to extremes. After all, black holes themselves don't actually exist.
Click to expand...

Stephen Hawking vouches for "Dark Matter". I'm pretty sure that invalidates your argument on Black Holes, I've caught plenty of other goofy nonsense so let's not think we speak for the majority saying "they aren't real".

Just because an equation with inclusive quantum physics can make it seem like you have two apples doesn't make your one apple become two.
 
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Vladimar Rubicon

V
Online arguments are never a good idea, however I make bad decisions all the time. So I'm on my way to Sag A* right now to prove that that isn't a black hole, but a really, really dirty clump of socks. I'm half way there and I figure it'll take me another couple hours.
 

evoelise

evoelise
anthonycsheehy said:
The problem with Hawking and black holes is that there are competing theories that you have to reconcile. One says Data from the universe cannot be lost. Hawking Radiation suggests that black holes can indeed evaporate. The way it does this means that the Data from the universe is indeed lost.
Click to expand...

Doesn't this mean the opposite from what you are stating; a black hole that didn't radiate would indeed be lost information, however Hawking Radiation means that over a very long period of time the black hole evaporates and returns the information back to the universe?
 

Drelthar

Drelthar
Is it just me, or are other people really disappointed with how black holes look in ED? why aren't they black? Where is the swirling vortex of crazy particle effects that eats my graphics card? Why is this commander not fighting to escape being sucked into it?
 

uberdude

Banned
uberdude
MidiPrefix said:
Is it just me, or are other people really disappointed with how black holes look in ED? why aren't they black? Where is the swirling vortex of crazy particle effects that eats my graphics card? Why is this commander not fighting to escape being sucked into it?
Click to expand...

Some people think that what we currently have are placeholders for something far better in the future.

I sometimes wonder if those people believe the entire game is a placeholder. :p

I joke, but seriously, I hope FDev comes out with something better.
 

Alec Turner

Alec Turner
Wow, only Elite could provoke a heated discussion about the physics of black holes. I hope David is reading this! Way to go FD!
 

Kondensat

K
fact is, the current view on a black hole in game is only correct for non rotating, non fed black holes. even the supermassive black hole Sag.A is not correct, as there is always radio emissions that means, it has an accretion disk emitting this radiation.

Sag.A should look like the Interstellar-Black hole, but less brilliant, as the mass flow into Sag.A is much weaker and less violent (gravitational forces at the event horizon is less compared to a stellar black hole)
interstellar8.jpg

a stellar black hole with accretion disk (i.e. Cygnus-X1) would look much different. a rapidly rotating accretion disk, heating up to bright white in the centre near the event horizon, emitting gamma rays. magnetic field lines forming a violent jet.
[video=youtube;PYhxVihpwAM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYhxVihpwAM[/video]

would be nice to see such GFX in the future
 

CMDR Sheehy

CMDR Sheehy
evoelise said:
Doesn't this mean the opposite from what you are stating; a black hole that didn't radiate would indeed be lost information, however Hawking Radiation means that over a very long period of time the black hole evaporates and returns the information back to the universe?
Click to expand...

Well, you get all that stellar matter getting sucked in. After you do the impossible and get beyond the event horizon all you find are dirty socks. Very dirty socks. The sort of socks that your teenager wears for a week and then leaves under the bed for you to discover. Think of the edge of the bed as the event horizon. Everything under the bed now smells so bad that the universe puts on gloves and brings a black bag before calling environmental services to safely dispose of the toxic material. Hence the data is lost and all that returns to the universe is the pleasant smell radiating from the diffuser plugin...

However, you KNOW that the event horizon is irresistible and sooner or later another stallar mass approaches...
 

Avago Earo

Banned
Avago Earo
Vladimar Rubicon said:
Online arguments are never a good idea, however I make bad decisions all the time. So I'm on my way to Sag A* right now to prove that that isn't a black hole, but a really, really dirty clump of socks. I'm half way there and I figure it'll take me another couple hours.
Click to expand...

Enjoy your trip. I am interested to hear about what you find there :)

Online arguments... I've seen worse. At least this one was food for thought. Even food for a Black Hole.

Good luck Commander.
 

Avago Earo

Banned
Avago Earo
Ok, I now know where babies come from (Oops!) but as far as space is concerned, Huh?

The accretion disc thing. That's not related to the energy ejection thing is it? I thought that was to do with the friction from bombarding dust and stuff that orbits the black hole at a speed that counters the gravitational attraction until the energy is greater then whacks out all like giving it the large one.

Or summink?
 
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