You are missing the point, for 2 years you kept on saying there was nothing wrong with this game, now that you have made your money it's a different story.
Thats insulting
Thats insulting
Brett C
Frontier
I feel insulted that the point you are making now seem to be a type of jab at whom ever possible. Whether it being a normal user, employee, and so forth. If you ask me, this doesn't have to do with money. Money is what keeps games and the economy going. If there was no cash flow, I would come to the thought that Michael wouldn't be here now.rosscoe(au) said:
I honestly would like to see where Michael stated exactly that the game has 'nothing wrong'. If I remember correctly, this is a PC game; it will have errors, bugs, glitches and so forth. Every pc is built differently, barely one is the same to the other.
Do i care what you think BC, no.
Of course this was about money, David and MBrookes both made a lot from this game, you where at the Atari forums when the game first came out.
You would also remember that the standard line from MBrookes was you are playing the game wrong, they got paid we got shafted.
If they cared ( MBrookes only post here cause this is what he gets paid for )they would try to fix the issues that are still with this game, i am sure they made enough money.
Don't you agree.
Of course this was about money, David and MBrookes both made a lot from this game, you where at the Atari forums when the game first came out.
You would also remember that the standard line from MBrookes was you are playing the game wrong, they got paid we got shafted.
If they cared ( MBrookes only post here cause this is what he gets paid for )they would try to fix the issues that are still with this game, i am sure they made enough money.
Don't you agree.
Oh, I digress.... I feel like Hannibal at the A-Team when he states "I love it when a plan comes together. Perhaps I should change that for this topic to "I love it when a clan comes together." Hopefully this get resolved somethime whatever it be.
By the way Rosscoe, they did release a fix it patch for the work around on the copy protection in the game as the secure rom was causing problems. I told Ken and others that they should forego the copy protection because it is very quickly broken and than everyone and their uncle who steals software gets it on the net while those of us who supported the original program get stiffed by a handicapped original version. Perhaps the guy with the "Force " won't make it a farce when he eventually publishes Thrillville for the PC.
Maybe David, you can do some lightsaber battles on the users behalf when it comes to secure rom and all those other shaft the consumer companies.
Rosscoe as far as Michael Brookes goes, he has poured some tough sweat for years supporting us. Lighten up on him man
I feel like Hannibal at the A-Team when he states "I love it when a plan comes together. Perhaps I should change that for this topic to "I love it when a clan comes together." Hopefully this get resolved somethime whatever it be.By the way Rosscoe, they did release a fix it patch for the work around on the copy protection in the game as the secure rom was causing problems. I told Ken and others that they should forego the copy protection because it is very quickly broken and than everyone and their uncle who steals software gets it on the net while those of us who supported the original program get stiffed by a handicapped original version. Perhaps the guy with the "Force " won't make it a farce when he eventually publishes Thrillville for the PC.
Maybe David, you can do some lightsaber battles on the users behalf when it comes to secure rom and all those other shaft the consumer companies.
Rosscoe as far as Michael Brookes goes, he has poured some tough sweat for years supporting us. Lighten up on him man
Sebar,
This is the last i will post on this we all have different views, which is fine.
As for the last patch that was released, the only reason i believed it was released was to promote "Thrillville" and these forums, did it fix any issues that where outstanding with the game, not one.
Also earlier in this thread i brought up a game play issue that is still there, did MBrookes address that issue, nope do i ever think he will.nope
I still believe this was all about money, they made alot with a product that was flawed and they knew from day one it was flawed.
This is the last i will post on this we all have different views, which is fine.
As for the last patch that was released, the only reason i believed it was released was to promote "Thrillville" and these forums, did it fix any issues that where outstanding with the game, not one.
Also earlier in this thread i brought up a game play issue that is still there, did MBrookes address that issue, nope do i ever think he will.nope
I still believe this was all about money, they made alot with a product that was flawed and they knew from day one it was flawed.
Yada Yada Yada
Could it honestly be that Atari called many shots, after all they pay the bucks and the buck stops with them? Yeah RCT3 has problems, but I haven't seen Atari say one thing to fix them. At least with Frontier they took the time to fix an issue. The secure rom issue was initiated a while ago, as mentioned by Ken Allen in the regular forums and others, so your statement that Frontier did this for publicity or profits doesn't hold water. In fact it rather punctures the bottom of the bucket leaving a gash that could sink a cruise ship.
As far as TVPC goes, it remains to be seen what will be produced for the PC platform by Frontier under the helm of ole' Georgie Boy Lucas. Perhaps they will make a product that essentially blows RCT3 away in more ways than one.
David is not a dumb guy. I think he is a shrewed and knowledgable businessman who recognizeds the needs of his customers. The main question than becomes one of does LucasArts recognize those same needs.
While Atari is down, its not out, at least as of this posting, and whether the "Goon" who is running it recognizes the RCT3 community or not, remains to be seen.
As for Chris Sawyer.... well what can I say? At least he won't be sabotaging any trainers for RCT3 anytime soon
Could it honestly be that Atari called many shots, after all they pay the bucks and the buck stops with them? Yeah RCT3 has problems, but I haven't seen Atari say one thing to fix them. At least with Frontier they took the time to fix an issue. The secure rom issue was initiated a while ago, as mentioned by Ken Allen in the regular forums and others, so your statement that Frontier did this for publicity or profits doesn't hold water. In fact it rather punctures the bottom of the bucket leaving a gash that could sink a cruise ship.
As far as TVPC goes, it remains to be seen what will be produced for the PC platform by Frontier under the helm of ole' Georgie Boy Lucas. Perhaps they will make a product that essentially blows RCT3 away in more ways than one.
David is not a dumb guy. I think he is a shrewed and knowledgable businessman who recognizeds the needs of his customers. The main question than becomes one of does LucasArts recognize those same needs.
While Atari is down, its not out, at least as of this posting, and whether the "Goon" who is running it recognizes the RCT3 community or not, remains to be seen.
As for Chris Sawyer....
well what can I say? At least he won't be sabotaging any trainers for RCT3 anytime soon
rosscoe(au) said:
It is sad that you look back on it like you do. We all very much enjoyed making and playing the game, as I think did the community. Many of us here, myself included, put in a great many extra hours to support the communities. We ran the screenshots competition thing (you even sent in some shots yourself) and spent hours during many evenings posting on the Atari forums.
As with all PC games there were all sorts of issues that came up, from graphic card problems (which keep coming up as new drivers are released), to specific issues with the game. Relations with Atari cooled somewhat, which stopped me posting on Atari's forums, so after a long period of absence we started these forums to attempt to resume support for the fans, but to be honest we were met with a great deal of criticism. Bringing out new patches etc for a game is a slow, time-consuming process but we did it (without Atari's support, financial or otherwise), and it made almost no difference to the attitude of some very vocal individuals - so we decided not to carry on at that time. Whatever we add or improve with the game will never be enough for some - but having said that, I won't rule out further support in the future.
RCT3 is a great game. A great many people have had a great time and have produced an incredible number of great parks with it. I am very sorry that some people still have problems with it.
You say it is all about money; obviously this comes in to it, but you make a great many assumptions about where it all ends up. Obviously I cannot discuss the details, but the main part of the reason to be in this business is because we love games.
David B said:
If you read what i wrote to your reply in Atari Forums, you would know that i play this game everyday for at least two hours a day.
In fact it's the only game i play ( well with RCT 1&2 ) as for the above quote, thats where i am disapointed the most. I don't doubt that you love making games, but how can you release something that you know has flaws.
Even the specs on the side of the box was misleading, as you are aware i helped beta test both Soaked and Wild ( something i was proud to do ), but you allowed both add on's to be released with such major flaws that your statement make no sense.
Tower and drop rides broken ( peeps wont leave )
Sunscreen love in still takes place.
Some rides never see a single peep ride them, while others are just over the top.
There"s a whole lot more, but it's late and i am tired.
If you really believe in that above quote, all we ( I ) ask is you fix the game that we love.
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Atari - Frontier, who cares....
Okay fair enough RosccoeAU, you have very valid points. So lets say Frontier is like 50% responsible for debugging stuff, there is the other people, you know the ones. They have a big red symbol for their logo that appears to be flipping their users the bird (and if you look at it, it really does) and than there is the new guy...ooops, I meant goon (cause I don't know his or her name and am too lazy to search Google ) and what have they done? I haven't heard that company with that aweful red logo say one peep, not one, and they paid Frontier and they also racked in the big bucks and they could be the publisher (term "could be" as in past tense - hidden meaning: Wait till CS gets done with em ) So lets hear you ask Atari repeatedly in newer posts in their own forums to please tell us all what they are gonna do for us. I think since they are at the high end of the food chain here, we ought to ask them to at least start talking to us, something they have not done for almost 3/4 of a year.
Okay fair enough RosccoeAU, you have very valid points. So lets say Frontier is like 50% responsible for debugging stuff, there is the other people, you know the ones. They have a big red symbol for their logo that appears to be flipping their users the bird (and if you look at it, it really does
) and than there is the new guy...ooops, I meant goon (cause I don't know his or her name and am too lazy to search Google ) and what have they done? I haven't heard that company with that aweful red logo say one peep, not one, and they paid Frontier and they also racked in the big bucks and they could be the publisher (term "could be" as in past tense - hidden meaning: Wait till CS gets done with em ) So lets hear you ask Atari repeatedly in newer posts in their own forums to please tell us all what they are gonna do for us. I think since they are at the high end of the food chain here, we ought to ask them to at least start talking to us, something they have not done for almost 3/4 of a year.
rosscoe(au) said:
The sad thing is I do understand your gripe. On the one hand I am delighted that it holds your love and attention still so much after so long, and on the other it shows that these problems are not insurmountable (though I am not trying to belittle your irritation). By the same token, there are issues with my car that annoy me, with my computer etc etc. Unfortunately with RCT3 and the expansions we were constrained in what we could do, and still are.
This is the nub of the problem. 'All we ask' suggests you think it is a small job. Even a tiny tweak to the code is a very big QA task thereafter, and even after that, the decision to release such a patch would not be ours alone.
See David, you nailed it exactly, which would indicate not only is that other company, you know the one, it starts with the giant initial "A" and their parent company "I" even though they don't amount to much in artificial intelligence) logo flipping the big red bird at its user base, but perhaps at the devs too...David B said:
Think of us as one big happy family (The Devs and the Community Customers) all sinking together on a tiny kid's raft in the middle of the mightiest ocean ever, the great blue and green Pacific Ocean. Too bad that ride was never in soaked sebar said:See David, you nailed it exactly, which would indicate not only is that other company, you know the one, it starts with the giant initial "A" and their parent company "I" even though they don't amount to much in artificial intelligence) logo flipping the big red bird at its user base, but perhaps at the devs too...
What does any of that mean, while Atari should be held at fault as well they did not make the game, they only released it.
David, while i understand where you are coming from, you must understand that i wont buy another one of your games till you fix the game i payed for.
I am sorry, but i have no faith in you or your company not too release another bug filled game and the sad part that you seem to miss is "A lot of other people fell the same way".
You burned us once with Rct 3, not willing to take a chance with "Thrillville", as i said fix the problems with the game i have got.
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sebar said:See David, you nailed it exactly, which would indicate not only is that other company, you know the one, it starts with the giant initial "A" and their parent company "I" even though they don't amount to much in artificial intelligence) logo flipping the big red bird at its user base, but perhaps at the devs too...
Ok, Im not getting into this discussion, but I have been reading it. One question, Sebar, could you please just say Atari. Your 2 lined description of their name and logo is anoying (No offence).
*Goes back to reading the thread.*
Tboy said:
AMEN
LOL No offence meant here either - Sebar, do you breathe between sentences, I couldn't spot a fullstop anywhere in there? LOLrosscoe(au) said:
This is speaking from a slightly uneducated position, but it seems a little extreme to make a statement like "...another bug filled game..." when you have previously stated that you play the game "everyday for at least two hours a day".
Personally if I were to try getting someone to listen to me I'd be more inclined to take something of a less emotive stance on it. To be honest, through your actions, you are providing significant endorsment for the game - a genre that I really don't have any urge to take up (Elite/Frontier boy from way back). Really, I suspect that both David and the rest of his Dev team got the point a while back and I would also suspect that they will be addressing the issue if the opportunity presents.
Any further exhortation on the issue is nothing short of a rant - not really worth it and not achieving anything of use.
caol said:Actually I thought it was quite funny... It made me think of the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy for some reason that probably only makes sense deep in my subconcious.
Yeah, I can see that - similar in tone to most of the humor in the likes of Red Dwarf and Blackadder, lacking perhaps a little in the scathing whit exhibited by Mr Rowan Atkinson, but similar non-the-less.
caol said:Actually I thought it was quite funny... It made me think of the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy for some reason that probably only makes sense deep in my subconcious.
I suppose there is a fine line between funny and anoying.
Huh? Change the topic? What? me? No... Of course not. What would give you that idea? *Cough*hehe....
Well its my authoring skills, of being able to just blow through the slushpile to the very essence of the problem. Rosscoe, I understand your frustrations. But Frontier was paid by the so-called publisher for the game that the Publisher ordered. Lets dissect this much like Darth Vader hunting for Rebel spies or something to that effect.
The Publisher has final say over what is put out. If they order and accept a crappy product, sell it, take your bucks, than the bucks stop with them.
Now here is where I at this time blame the Frontier group. Okay David get set, cause you're no angel either in this, just that I don't hold you to the major things.
Frontier had the duty of making sure the rides were true to the original, not only in modeling which many were very faithful, but also in how they worked and sounded....period! Frontier had the responsibility to fix these and other issues, and still does to a point. The suntan lotion bug and yes David it is just that, that's your guys stuff. No, I am not blaming any one person, (especially Michael Brookes), got that Rosscoe. What Frontier can do, is over time patch these smaller flaws.
Ultimately though, the so-called Software Publisher ( I know the words drive some of you completely nutz that's why I'll continue to try and remember the publisher's name...NOT!) The Publisher has the majority of the responsibility to make sure that the community doesn't get crap. They call the shots. If they wanted to delay the product and get things fixed up, they have that judgment call. They decided not to. In effect I hold that company, you know the one with the big red logo that flips me the bird in more ways than one. They are who you should be screaming at!
The Publisher has final say over what is put out. If they order and accept a crappy product, sell it, take your bucks, than the bucks stop with them.
Now here is where I at this time blame the Frontier group. Okay David get set, cause you're no angel either in this, just that I don't hold you to the major things.
Frontier had the duty of making sure the rides were true to the original, not only in modeling which many were very faithful, but also in how they worked and sounded....period! Frontier had the responsibility to fix these and other issues, and still does to a point. The suntan lotion bug and yes David it is just that, that's your guys stuff. No, I am not blaming any one person, (especially Michael Brookes), got that Rosscoe. What Frontier can do, is over time patch these smaller flaws.
Ultimately though, the so-called Software Publisher ( I know the words drive some of you completely nutz
that's why I'll continue to try and remember the publisher's name...NOT!) The Publisher has the majority of the responsibility to make sure that the community doesn't get crap. They call the shots. If they wanted to delay the product and get things fixed up, they have that judgment call. They decided not to. In effect I hold that company, you know the one with the big red logo that flips me the bird in more ways than one. They are who you should be screaming at!sebar said:
Agreed, sure, highlight the issues to the Frontier team but once that is done berating them for something they can't immediately address is pointless. Take it as noted and deal with it.