Interesting performance factor observation.

[Caspar]

Edit - in a later post in this thread, one contributor suggests the issue only happens when ships spawn in the solar system. I check and it turns out he was right. This issue does not happen in a system without ships being spawned.

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After travelling about yesterday, it became clear to me that the complexity of local rendering (immediate poly count) is NOT the only factor where FPS is concerned.

It seems to me that my FPS drops massively when I'm in a complex solar system with multiple planets and moons compared to a simple system. So I could be flying next to a sun and it will stutter in a complex system. In a system with no other planets in orbit, that same sun will be rendered smooth as as you like.

This is probably why training missions are smooth for me, because the training systems are light.

I've proven this to myself a number of times now but would be interested to see what others have experienced. It's as big an issue for FPS to me as high poly count objects and perhaps even more so. I'm confused why / how it should be a factor.

 

[Karnath]

I certainly notice more of a stutter in super cruise in heavily populated systems but i wouldn't expect any different, as the more that's going on the bigger the hit on performance
My personal opinion when it comes to the training missions is these are all pre-loaded with no other variables being taken into account that happens in open or solo play

 

[Caspar]

I certainly notice more of a stutter in super cruise in heavily populated systems but i wouldn't expect any different, as the more that's going on the bigger the hit on performance
My personal opinion when it comes to the training missions is these are all pre-loaded with no other variables being taken into account that happens in open or solo play

I think the point I'm making is that the issue isn't directly tied to the immediate number of polys and textures being generated and rendered. During SC in a heavily populated system (planets / moons / ships) my GPU and CPU will be at 35% .... Yet I still seem to get huge dives in FPS. So it's not a GPU can't render issue and CPU isn't a bottleneck.

On my system at least, the presence of celestial bodies and objects in the system introduces a delay in FPS that, on the face of it, doesn't appear to be entirely hardware related.

Edit: as mentioned below. It's not the celestial bodies but the presence of ships in them. Once on radar, FPS starts to tank. Without the ships, it's silky smooth.

 

[seanwasere]

i find that reducing the WorkPerFrame values in graphicsconfiguration.xml reduces that judder when you fly closer to the planets. not completely, but noticeably,
it's a compromise over how fast the textures are pre prepared though.
my values are quarter of the original, and it works well for me.
that turning head stutter still happens though

 

[Graywolfe]

It seems to me that my FPS drops massively when I'm in a complex solar system with multiple planets and moons compared to a simple system. So I could be flying next to a sun and it will stutter in a complex system. In a system with no other planets in orbit, that same sun will be rendered smooth as as you like.

For me, the only thing that makes any difference to performance in super cruise is the number of ships in the system. Nothing else makes any difference, but as the number of ships in system (not on screen, they can all be behind me) increases there is a noticeable drop off in performance.

 

[Commander Pew Pew]

i find that reducing the WorkPerFrame values in graphicsconfiguration.xml reduces that judder when you fly closer to the planets.

This works for me too, a bit.

I'm suspecting there's some networking code in the render loop that is not asynchronous. You can tweak settings till the end of time but that won't fix that. It's probably not regarded as a bug but for VR users it is.

 

[CMDR Holycow]

For me, the only thing that makes any difference to performance in super cruise is the number of ships in the system. Nothing else makes any difference, but as the number of ships in system (not on screen, they can all be behind me) increases there is a noticeable drop off in performance.

I experience the EXACT same thing. Number of planets is irrelevant. I can be docked in my station looking at the wall... and if there are a dozen ships flying outside the station, I get terrible judder. Sitting in an identical station in a sparsely populated system, maybe where I am the only ship (or just a few) flying outside.... same polys and textures being rendered on my screen... game play is smooth as butter.

But if it wasn't gpu related... one would think you would see this same issue on a monitor. But I don't recall seeing anything like this while playing on ULTRA, on my 27".

 

[Soda Popinski]

Might be useful to know if you did any of those NVidia settings tricks? Specifically, PhysX to CPU.

 

[CMDR Holycow]

Might be useful to know if you did any of those NVidia settings tricks? Specifically, PhysX to CPU.

I have. But I have gone back and forth on that setting a half dozen times... my experience is always the same. Maybe I will try it again back to back in a system with enough ships to cause me my issue... toggle it off, and see if the experience changes.

 

[Jake_blakeson]

Have you tried testing in Solo mode, I have been testing my rift on a low end machine, the framerate and error changes are more dramatic, and found that a lot of the studder and frame rate issues seem to coincide with the number of real people in the system. I have experienced framerate issues which go away once I jumped to a system without any other players in it. So it is possible that a lot of the framerate issues Rift users in game are experiencing could be directly related to server issues at FD and not computer workload issues. One other thing about the DK2 I have discovered, the screendoor effect, and the low resolution issue, may have more to do with the optics in the unit then the resolution of the screens. You take any monitor and put use a magnifying glass on it and it will seem like its low resolution and you will get a screen door effect. Perhaps non-magnifying optics would improve the quality of the DK2. Just a thought.

 

[CMDR Holycow]

Have you tried testing in Solo mode, I have been testing my rift on a low end machine, the framerate and error changes are more dramatic, and found that a lot of the studder and frame rate issues seem to coincide with the number of real people in the system. I have experienced framerate issues which go away once I jumped to a system without any other players in it. So it is possible that a lot of the framerate issues Rift users in game are experiencing could be directly related to server issues at FD and not computer workload issues. One other thing about the DK2 I have discovered, the screendoor effect, and the low resolution issue, may have more to do with the optics in the unit then the resolution of the screens. You take any monitor and put use a magnifying glass on it and it will seem like its low resolution and you will get a screen door effect. Perhaps non-magnifying optics would improve the quality of the DK2. Just a thought.

Put your eye that close to any screen, even your monitor, and you see the screen door affect. It is directly related to the size of the pixles, and how far away you are from the display. The OR being attached right to your face of course puts the screen just a couple inches from your eyes... hence, SDE.

FYI, I see the same drop in frame rate performance in systems with a lot of NPC action as well... with no other players.

 

[Caspar]

Might be useful to know if you did any of those NVidia settings tricks? Specifically, PhysX to CPU.

AMD R9 280 here. I'm guessing no Physx to CPU option for us guys?

 

[Caspar]

For me, the only thing that makes any difference to performance in super cruise is the number of ships in the system. Nothing else makes any difference, but as the number of ships in system (not on screen, they can all be behind me) increases there is a noticeable drop off in performance.

Right ... I tested this hopping between Founders and my own home system. And you know what - I think that you're bang on the money with this observation. You can be in SC and the moment that another ship appears somewhere on the radar, it's then that the FPS start taking a nose dive. Or so it would seem.

I'm going to keep on testing this to confirm the observation but would be grateful if others could double check.

It goes to reinforce my original point that the performance issues some Rift users are experiencing are not to do with GPU rendering loads or CPU loads at all. SC represents fairly low levels of detail - why would the presence of a ship in the vicinity (represented by a stick on the radar) cause a performance hit?

Even more curious ... why some people and not others?

If we could pull enough detail together then perhaps we could build up a case to get it investigated. FD would love that

 

[Thoemse]

I think the point I'm making is that the issue isn't directly tied to the immediate number of polys and textures being generated and rendered. During SC in a heavily populated system (planets / moons / ships) my GPU and CPU will be at 35% .... Yet I still seem to get huge dives in FPS. So it's not a GPU can't render issue and CPU isn't a bottleneck.

On my system at least, the presence of celestial bodies and objects in the system introduces a delay in FPS that, on the face of it, doesn't appear to be entirely hardware related.

I think we all get that behavior. I think something is badly optimised.

 

[Pate]

Your observations might very well explain why I have not been seeing any judder (besides the usual culprits, inside hyperdrive and loading the system map). I am out in the black exploring, so it has been ages since I have seen another ship in the radar.

By the way, sorry for this being off topic, I have seen mention of the training missions (or tutorials), where do I find those? I only have the actual game and the Combat Tutorial as options in the launcher, have I skipped installing something?

 

[seanwasere]

you have not 'have I skipped installing something',
but you have skipped something,
it is option number 1 on the Main menu after you open the launcher, log in and press Play for Eliteangerous



Another interesting observation i made,
was, just how nicely the game plays when you press play, without logging on,
you are taken straight to the combat training demo,
where my expensive 970 works just beautifully,
actually my GTX 750 was pretty good aswell, with a slight reduction in the Oculus quality slider in the GFX settings

When Frontier advertise ED at the shows, they demo the system using the training demo, and a titan card apparently.
I bet that a titan card, still won't fix the issues apparent when playing 'open play' in Eliteangerous,
I would need to go out and buy one to find out for sure.

So a smell an advertising standards law suit coming along, and a refund for all us for our ongoing expenses and efforts to mitigate the problem through a class action law suit,
unless, of course, a litigation lawyer already has that covered.

So i guess our problems will never get fixed, we will all just stop writing and reading the forums one day, and go off on our merry way.

 

[Caspar]

Well no. This isn't a litigation thing, this is about people pioneering with VR tech. As far as I'm aware, players with monitors and track IR etc don't get this issue. It's a VR problem for which support is experimental I believe and I'm not sure how many of us actually suffer from it.

FD may well be interested in exploring the matter if it can lead to an improved experience. They may also be well aware and require updates from Oculus before they can fix it etc etc.

So I'm happy to start this.

I suffer from the SC judder issue that occurs when other space ships spawn in the system even though CPU and GPU are not loaded. My specs are:

AMD FX 6350
R9 280 running Catalyst drivers 14.4
8gb ram
Windows 8.1

 

[seanwasere]

well in that case, FD should be advertising ED using an AMD, R9 280, 8gb, Win 8.1 and Track IR instead

 

[Caspar]

But if it wasn't gpu related... one would think you would see this same issue on a monitor. But I don't recall seeing anything like this while playing on ULTRA, on my 27".

It could well be GPU related but I don't think its GPU load related. Or CPU load related. Especially not when you're out in SC.

 

[drkaii]

After travelling about yesterday, it became clear to me that the complexity of local rendering (immediate poly count) is NOT the only factor where FPS is concerned.

It seems to me that my FPS drops massively when I'm in a complex solar system with multiple planets and moons compared to a simple system. So I could be flying next to a sun and it will stutter in a complex system. In a system with no other planets in orbit, that same sun will be rendered smooth as as you like.

This is probably why training missions are smooth for me, because the training systems are light.

I've proven this to myself a number of times now but would be interested to see what others have experienced. It's as big an issue for FPS to me as high poly count objects and perhaps even more so. I'm confused why / how it should be a factor.

TL;DR all the other posts. But I think the answer here was given by a dev. Judder due to many planets is nothing to do with polys (are planets even polys at all? They are way too round - I suspect trickery), but the textures. There are 4 levels of details to the textures and each one is loaded at a specific rate. I recently turned up the resolutions at each LOD and my judder increased. Someone mentioned the workload tweak and that should fix your issues.