Newcomer / Intro Cobra or Viper?

[Elvo]

I've got a couple or three mil stashed at the moment and currently flying an Adder that's not to pimped, but has been upgraded a bit and I'm making some reasonable green BHing in RES at the moment. However, I'm finding that the hardpoint positions aren't the best on the Adder for pew pew and it's sometimes tricky to get all the weapons to bear on the target.

Now I want to keep the Adder as I'll be outfitting it for exploration, but now thinking of a combat ship and I'm torn between the Cobra and the Viper. I know that people rave about the Cobra as a general purpose craft, but how do the two compare on a purely combat and survivability basis?

Oh and I meant to add, I see from ED shipyard that the Viper is significantly cheaper.

 

[Ozric]

For pure combat then definitely the Viper, it is what it's designed for. The weapons are stacked closer together and from memory the Viper has 2 Class 3 hardpoints, whereas the Cobra's highest are Class 2

 

[nazartp]

Here's a simple summary - Viper is a combat craft. It has more shields but less hull than a Cobra. It accelerates better and, arguably, has better hardpoint placement. Until Vulture it was THE craft to take hunting Elite 'Condas. So if you are planning just to fight, save yourself some creds and get a Viper. It is not good for anything else, though.

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The weapons are stacked closer together and from memory the Viper has 2 Class 3 hardpoints, whereas the Cobra's highest are Class 2

Nope, exact same weapons as Cobra. Two small, two medium.

 

[Elvo]

For pure combat then definitely the Viper, it is what it's designed for. The weapons are stacked closer together and from memory the Viper has 2 Class 3 hardpoints, whereas the Cobra's highest are Class 2

I've been playing with ED shipyard looking at builds, and they both have 2x medium and 2x small hardpoints, which is why i was wondering which to buy. The Cobra also has more internal bays which gives more options .... which is why of course it's a multipurpose ship.

 

[Hacker#451563]

For pure combat then definitely the Viper, it is what it's designed for. The weapons are stacked closer together and from memory the Viper has 2 Class 3 hardpoints, whereas the Cobra's highest are Class 2

The Viper has 2x class 1 and 2x class 2 hardpoints but because they are close you dont have to use Gimbled weapons to be able to hit anything smaller than a Cobra so your DPS will be better.

They are much more manuverable than a cobra but have less cargo space, they have better shields though (the cobras shields are a big meh IMO).

If you are going from a sidey to a cobra (trade, trade missions, exploring. a bit of combat) then you will be happy with the upgrade, if you are going from an Eagle to a cobra you will grind your teeth as you try to turn on your opponants only to have then out-dance you - esspecally if you cross swords with a human.

The Viper will keep that combat feel and give you a chance against the largest of NPC's and any human in a ship of similar price range.
They also look like they are all business.

 

[Ozric]

Nope, exact same weapons as Cobra. Two small, two medium.

Fair enough, cheers for the correction.

I've been playing with ED shipyard looking at builds, and they both have 2x medium and 2x small hardpoints, which is why i was wondering which to buy. The Cobra also has more internal bays which gives more options .... which is why of course it's a multipurpose ship.

I've not used ED shipyard, but as I and nazartp have said, the Viper is a combat ship so aside from the hardpoint placement the manoeuvrability of it will be much better than the Cobra (which is by no means a space cow) as it's mass is around 1/3 of the Cobra (if I've remembered that right )

All you need in internal bays are a FSD interdictor, a Shield Generator and probably a couple of Shield Cell (if they're still allowed in the game... different topic though)

Take all my advice with a pinch of salt as I'm an Explorer at heart

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

It depends on what kind of combat you are seeking.

If you want a combat capable craft to take part in Community Goals, then a Cobra will have the advantage of jump range which allows you to get to the combat area quickly. You trade in maneuverability and shield strength, but gain a little on boost speed (which you will need because you'll be running away more often). The Cobra also has less power problems than a similarly kitted Viper. A Cobra also is more versatile and flexible, can be used for a bunch of different tasks.

If you are not dependent on getting around quickly, a Viper is your better choice. Find a good spot for hunting or mercenary work, kit out your Viper and stay in this spot.

 

[Elvo]

The Viper has 2x class 1 and 2x class 2 hardpoints but because they are close you dont have to use Gimbled weapons to be able to hit anything smaller than a Cobra so your DPS will be better.

I've only ever used gimbaled weapons after i had so many problems actually hitting anything in my Sidey!

They are much more manuverable than a cobra but have less cargo space, they have better shields though (the cobras shields are a big meh IMO).

Interesting to hear you opinion on the shields as the Cobra has Class 4 shields but i guess it's a much heavier ship.

If you are going from a sidey to a cobra (trade, trade missions, exploring. a bit of combat) then you will be happy with the upgrade, if you are going from an Eagle to a cobra you will grind your teeth as you try to turn on your opponants only to have then out-dance you - esspecally if you cross swords with a human.

The Viper will keep that combat feel and give you a chance against the largest of NPC's and any human in a ship of similar price range.
They also look like they are all business.

Luckily I'm going from an Adder to a Viper. I have a Freegle, (somewhere!) but have never flown it. You are right about the look, it definitely says "GO AWAY"

To all, thanks for the opinions, i think you've confirmed what i thought

 

[Dommarraa]

Travel in a Viper is the issue. If you want to roam the Galaxy fighting, then get a Cobra. If you are content (like me) to park your fighter in a good High Tec system with RES and to take it out for a blast every now and then, then get the Viper.

OTOH Just get a Viper, by camping in a RES you will have the dosh for a Cobra as well in a few of hours.

 

[theEmohawk]

I've got a couple or three mil stashed at the moment and currently flying an Adder that's not to pimped, but has been upgraded a bit and I'm making some reasonable green BHing in RES at the moment. However, I'm finding that the hardpoint positions aren't the best on the Adder for pew pew and it's sometimes tricky to get all the weapons to bear on the target.

Now I want to keep the Adder as I'll be outfitting it for exploration, but now thinking of a combat ship and I'm torn between the Cobra and the Viper. I know that people rave about the Cobra as a general purpose craft, but how do the two compare on a purely combat and survivability basis?

Oh and I meant to add, I see from ED shipyard that the Viper is significantly cheaper.

I flew an Adder for ages and had it well upgraded. I bought a Cobra and parked the Adder for good, other than a short exploration trip, until I used to to fly to a decent high tech station to buy my Asp (and chipped the Adder in for the Asp). The Cobra actually makes a better explorer than the Adder, so if that's your reason for keeping the Adder I'd reconsider.

If the ship you buy is a pure combat vessel then unarguably the Viper is better. The issue you have with the Cobra is the small hard points are very wide, so you get a lot of separation when you target a ship that's further away. I always addressed this by using gimbles on the small and fixed on the medium hard points.

I started in a Sidey, moved to my FrEagle, traded the Sidey for an Adder, bought a Viper, traded the Viper for a Cobra, traded the Adder for an Asp. So I still have FrEagle, Cobra and Asp. I've loved each ship I've flown, but as I play a multi-role it's been the Adder, Cobra and now Asp that I've loved the most.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

With 3 mill in the bank, I would recommend the Viper, as you will have a much easier time kitting it out for your purposes.

My own Viper loadout was around 4 mill and 200k rebuy. And I wasn't really armed to the teeth. I tend to use the largest pulse lasers available because they are the best allround weapon in the game.

Spoiler

Here's what I had, if you are interested:

M: 2E/F Pulse Laser
M: 2E/F Pulse Laser
S: 1E/G Cannon
S: 1E/G Cannon
U: 0E Kill Warrant Scanner (= 2km range, 10 sec scan)
U: 0E Shield Booster

BH: 1I Lightweight Alloy
RB: 3A Power Plant
TM: 3A Thrusters
FH: 3A Frame Shift Drive (~ 13 ly jump range)*
EC: 2C Life Support (10 min emergency oxygen supply)
PC: 3A Power Distributor
SS: 3C Sensors (5km range)
FS: 2C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 4)

3: 3A Shield Generator
3: 3B Shield Cell Bank (5 x C-grade charge)
2: 2A Fuel Scoop (~55 sec to fill all 4 tons)*
1: 1A Frame Shift Drive Interdictor*

*module priority 2 in combat

Cost: 3.787.324 cr, Rebuy: 189.366 cr

If you use Military Grade Armor, your cost rises to 3.95 mill and 195k rebuy and your jump range reduces to 12 ly.

 

[willowfan]

Spec for spec the Viper and Cobra are quite similar

For pure BH the Viper is where it's at. The weapon hardpoints are better placed and it's faster and more manoeuvrable than the Cobra.

It's disadvatages are -
small fuel tank and jump range
tiny cargo capacity
underpowered - you will need to make compromises and prioritise ship functions if you want to pimp it out with powerful weapons and shields

One significant advantage - the rebuy cost, even of a pimped out Viper is very cheap, you can afford to go nuts in it.

 

[Elvo]

With 3 mill in the bank, I would recommend the Viper, as you will have a much easier time kitting it out for your purposes.

My own Viper loadout was around 4 mill and 200k rebuy. And I wasn't really armed to the teeth. I tend to use the largest pulse lasers available because they are the best all round weapon in the game.

interesting that you choose Pulse lasers, I would have though that Beam Lasers would be more powerful. I was considering 2x small bemas and 2 medium MC all gimbaled.

Spec for spec the Viper and Cobra are quite similar

For pure BH the Viper is where it's at. The weapon hardpoints are better placed and it's faster and more manoeuvrable than the Cobra.

It's disadvatages are -
small fuel tank and jump range
tiny cargo capacity
underpowered - you will need to make compromises and prioritise ship functions if you want to pimp it out with powerful weapons and shields

One significant advantage - the rebuy cost, even of a pimped out Viper is very cheap, you can afford to go nuts in it.

I hadn't realized that the Viper was marginal on power. It's not an issue i've come across, (as yet), in my Adder.

On the whole, based entirely on the responses and advice that I've had here, is err well, I think I'll buy both! Swap the Adder for a Cobra and set it up for exploring by BHing in the Viper. Attached as I am to the Adder there is one thing I don't like about it, which will be an issue for exploring, is the view out of the cockpit is rubbish! It's one reason that I'd like to go exploring in an Asp is the view!

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

interesting that you choose Pulse lasers, I would have though that Beam Lasers would be more powerful. I was considering 2x small bemas and 2 medium MC all gimbaled.

Beam lasers are indeed more powerful, but they have three significant disadvantages:

1. They overheat very fast compared to pulse lasers, which means you cannot continuously fire them.
2. You severely increase your risk of hitting a friendly/clean target
3. They cost much more power than pulse lasers so you need to compromise on internals

Pulse lasers also seem to have better hull penetration and to be better against power plants. Just an observation that might be flawed. Oh, and they are cheaper. Much, much cheaper.

 

[Elvo]

Beam lasers are indeed more powerful, but they have three significant disadvantages:

1. They overheat very fast compared to pulse lasers, which means you cannot continuously fire them.
2. You severely increase your risk of hitting a friendly/clean target
3. They cost much more power than pulse lasers so you need to compromise on internals

Pulse lasers also seem to have better hull penetration and to be better against power plants. Just an observation that might be flawed. Oh, and they are cheaper. Much, much cheaper.

I had heard that they were very power hungry, and the risk of friendly fire is indeed increased. It never ceases to amaze me the kamikaze nature of the NPCs in a RES flying in front of my ship when I have a target "lit up"

How about Burst Lasers as a compromise between Pulse and Beam?

 

[Llewelyn Morgan]

Costs more to kit out a Cobra for serious fighting, however, having tried both a couple of times I come back to the Cobra. The only real downside is the wide spacing of the small hardpoints (plus they are on the underside of the hull). The Cobra is not quite as nippy as the Viper, true, but at least against NPCs I don't find it a problem. The flat turn rate using rudder control is bad, mainly, so you don't make flat turns. It does cost more to kit out the Cobra decently, mind. But the better jump range, more compartments etc. for me make it the winner. On mine, I use gimballed E1 beam lasers on the small points (the ones that are around 75K to buy) and gimballed F2 multi-cannon on the medium points. Make sure you have a big enough generator and the best power distributor you can get - I use the beam lasers at longer ranges and to take down shields, then the multi cannon chew up hulls pretty fast if you get close enough (under about 1km).

Another point in the Cobra's favour is it's easier to kit it out and not run out of power. Currently (IIRC) I have C4 generator running C4 shields and thrusters. When I have more money will likely take the shield up to A4, and bigger generator as well.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

I had heard that they were very power hungry, and the risk of friendly fire is indeed increased. It never ceases to amaze me the kamikaze nature of the NPCs in a RES flying in front of my ship when I have a target "lit up"

How about Burst Lasers as a compromise between Pulse and Beam?

They are a nice compromise as you keep the ability to apply trigger discipline much the same as with pulse lasers, plus the damage output is increased and hull penetration is just as good, if not slightly better even. They are just more power hungry than pulse lasers of the same size.

And also they are only available in small or large sizes, not medium.

If you want to use a laser/multicannon setup on the Viper, I would recommend small burst lasers and medium multicannons. That's 1.5 times as power-hungry as medium lasers with small kinetic guns, though. So keep that in mind.

 

[nazartp]

They are a nice compromise as you keep the ability to apply trigger discipline much the same as with pulse lasers, plus the damage output is increased and hull penetration is just as good, if not slightly better even. They are just more power hungry than pulse lasers of the same size.

And also they are only available in small or large sizes, not medium.

If you want to use a laser/multicannon setup on the Viper, I would recommend small burst lasers and medium multicannons. That's 1.5 times as power-hungry as medium lasers with small kinetic guns, though. So keep that in mind.

I second that opinion. Bursts are close in power consumption to beams, so I used to run small pulses on the Viper. The logic of picking up small lasers and medium multies comes from combat zone experience. Even before the hull reinforcement packages the combat zone ships had ridiculous hulls. I never had an issue with stripping the shield, but had a lot of issues destroying the ships after that. After some trial and error I landed on small pulses to take down the shields and medium multies to have some punch against the hull.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

The logic of picking up small lasers and medium multies comes from combat zone experience. Even before the hull reinforcement packages the combat zone ships had ridiculous hulls. I never had an issue with stripping the shield, but had a lot of issues destroying the ships after that. After some trial and error I landed on small pulses to take down the shields and medium multies to have some punch against the hull.

Yep. It all depends what you want to use your Viper for. Conflict zones demand larger multicannons and smaller lasers, as military ships are always heavily armored.

Resource Extraction Sites demand larger lasers and smaller kinetic weapons, as pirate vessels are usually lightly armored if at all, and can be easily destroyed using lasers alone, which helps you save ammunition and keeps you hunting for longer periods of time without having to dock in between.

I'm less a mercenary and more a bounty hunter, so lasers are my weapon of choice. And pulse lasers are the best allrounder weapons in the game I have used so far.

 

[Vin Cross]

I currently have an Eagle kitted out with beams, and they do indeed have issues with sustained fire.

I have a question related to OP's, though. I'm looking at the same choice, and thinkin thinking I will do almost only combat. The thing is, I have friends picking up the game, and they're looking at trade. Would the viper make a decent escort, or would the cobra be better because of its longer range? Cost isn't an issue, because I plan to stay in my eagle until I'm decent at dogfighting.