I haven't even turned around yet (still heading to Saggi A*) and I was thinking about the return trip through the badlands - it's already giving me nerves. To me that is the essence of the "dangerous" bit of the game - do I spend 2 months out in the black ? or do I turn around early and cash in ?
Explorers - Should they lose their data upon ship destruction?
- Thread starter Lord_Crazy
- Start date
i think the black box idea is a good one. it should either just be found by the original owner (who knows the frequency to find it) or the owner should get a part of the money when someone else finds it (with a special sort of scanner to search for weak/special signals by black boxes?) and sells the data because there's still some digital "watermark" of the original "creator" of the data in there
What am I missing here? I don't understand
EDIT: oh, I see. Wow - that's an even worse than we have now. Not only do explorers lose their data...they become an active target! Cheers FD.
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Should be a black box -or data box if you want to call it something else. It should be like the cargo...able to be stolen by a pirate. So the pilot could give it willingly and avoid destruction. Or face destruction, the data could be lost though.
If the pirate succeeds, they should be able to sell the data, get all the money BUT the first discovered tag go to the explorer, not the pirate.
Would make explorers a hefty and huge target, which I kind of like since I think is pretty safe as it is right now. Some spice to it wouldn't hurt.
Knowing that we come from every corner of the galaxy into every corner of civilized space, it will still be hard to identify a explorer's ship. Knowing that we can always escape a pirate by submitting then boosting, doesn't make this all that dangerous.
Finally, even if so, many people will just go solo when re-entering, because they can and is not cheating.
So yes, please make it so it could be stolen. But credit the discovery always to the explorer. (perhaps pay them only the discovery bonus if the pirate sells it in? <-afterthought)
If the pirate succeeds, they should be able to sell the data, get all the money BUT the first discovered tag go to the explorer, not the pirate.
Would make explorers a hefty and huge target, which I kind of like since I think is pretty safe as it is right now. Some spice to it wouldn't hurt.
Knowing that we come from every corner of the galaxy into every corner of civilized space, it will still be hard to identify a explorer's ship. Knowing that we can always escape a pirate by submitting then boosting, doesn't make this all that dangerous.
Finally, even if so, many people will just go solo when re-entering, because they can and is not cheating.
So yes, please make it so it could be stolen. But credit the discovery always to the explorer. (perhaps pay them only the discovery bonus if the pirate sells it in? <-afterthought)
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I'm with Ziggy Starduster on this one - for the reasons he stated.
Also as an avid explorer myself I think there should be very real risks involved. Coming back in to human space is a nerve racking experience, but it is also a massive buzz.
Also as an avid explorer myself I think there should be very real risks involved. Coming back in to human space is a nerve racking experience, but it is also a massive buzz.
Favorite option here!
And it would not even be hard to manage. Data = cargo, or at least something very similar. Exploring would be more risky but explorers could have a chance to retrieve their data on the other hand. This system is not a safety net, it is more a double-edged sword.
As an Explorer, I see no need to change the mechanics here.
I've been out, far away from inhabited space, for - uh, I can't even remember - probably a month now if not more.
I've travelled to the Great Annihilator, to Sagittarius A*, and I've discovered, scanned and recorded numerous Earth-likes, Neutron stars, Black holes, White Dwarfs, and seen some wonderful sights.
It's been quite a journey for me and my ship Iron Man.
I have been filling my data banks with good data which hopefully will net me a nice financial reward.
I have invested my valuable playing time and you could say my emotions into exploring the galaxy.
I'm still about 21,000 LY from Sol, but I'm on a course back towards inhabited space now, because I've grown tired and weary, and also have heard tell of some major changes in technology under way that could affect me if I've not returned home before they are revealed [my way of saying 1.3 is imminent].
Being out so far away, I run the risk of accidentally blowing up my ship. My data should go with it if that's the case - I'll return home alive though, and I shall think about getting Out There again, maybe repeat my last failed journey with more experience.
Also, even returning home has its dangers in this cut-throat universe - I am in danger of the hives of villainy and scum that are some inhabited systems - it's a risk I need to take to get home.
tl;dr : the danger of data loss is part of the gameplay mechanics of ED. Removing that danger makes the journey meaningless.
I've been out, far away from inhabited space, for - uh, I can't even remember - probably a month now if not more.
I've travelled to the Great Annihilator, to Sagittarius A*, and I've discovered, scanned and recorded numerous Earth-likes, Neutron stars, Black holes, White Dwarfs, and seen some wonderful sights.
It's been quite a journey for me and my ship Iron Man.
I have been filling my data banks with good data which hopefully will net me a nice financial reward.
I have invested my valuable playing time and you could say my emotions into exploring the galaxy.
I'm still about 21,000 LY from Sol, but I'm on a course back towards inhabited space now, because I've grown tired and weary, and also have heard tell of some major changes in technology under way that could affect me if I've not returned home before they are revealed [my way of saying 1.3 is imminent].
Being out so far away, I run the risk of accidentally blowing up my ship. My data should go with it if that's the case - I'll return home alive though, and I shall think about getting Out There again, maybe repeat my last failed journey with more experience.
Also, even returning home has its dangers in this cut-throat universe - I am in danger of the hives of villainy and scum that are some inhabited systems - it's a risk I need to take to get home.
tl;dr : the danger of data loss is part of the gameplay mechanics of ED. Removing that danger makes the journey meaningless.
I wish there was a solution somewhere in between like say an exploration penalty of some sort like you lose a percentage of your profits if you do and even that I'm not sure.
I agree it seems harsh to lose your data after weeks of gameplay if you slip too close to a star or whatever...
but A. real explorers (like in the past before the interweb and all that) suffered very real and deadly setbacks in their voyages so should we in an even stranger universe then the 7 seas.....
and B. I'd hate for the game to turn into a mad dash to the other side of the galaxy rapid firing the scanner at each jump and then hitting self destruct or diving into a star to respawn and score some serious bank for your "efforts".
Unfortunately the best thing is to keep it as is and build some serious exploration chops.
I agree it seems harsh to lose your data after weeks of gameplay if you slip too close to a star or whatever...
but A. real explorers (like in the past before the interweb and all that) suffered very real and deadly setbacks in their voyages so should we in an even stranger universe then the 7 seas.....
and B. I'd hate for the game to turn into a mad dash to the other side of the galaxy rapid firing the scanner at each jump and then hitting self destruct or diving into a star to respawn and score some serious bank for your "efforts".
Unfortunately the best thing is to keep it as is and build some serious exploration chops.
Whoa, hang on!
I'm not claiming that'll be implemented in 1.3. Nor that it'll ever be. In fact, I expect to be out and about for around a month until I'm back.
Don't worry, Ziggy - FD's statement is pretty clear....
"Why buy a hold full of cargo, when you can pirate it from someone else? Why go to the bother of exploring a system to sell the data, when you can simply take it from them by force?"
It may not happen in 1.3, but the core concept is being used to sell the game, so its gonna happen at some point. I just hope FD create some counter measures for the poor explorers.
You can argue equivalence (exploration is generally speaking far less dangerous than bounty hunting, for example) but FD tweaked things specifically back in beta (I think) so that bounties and exploration data was lost on ship destruction to make it a more level playing field. As they did this on purpose I suspect that any change like the one suggested would have to go hand-in-hand with an equivalent change to bounty hunting and trading.
Exploration is already the safest role in ED. Traders can lose millions in cargo, so why should explorers be immune to such losses? Comin from some whose highest rank is in exploration: keep it like it is. In theory I like the 'clear black box' notion where every finder can sell it for full profit, but in reality there is noone who will find it but you yourself when you are way out in the dark. So no, just keep it like this and try not to die.
I'm on a long trip right now. If something were to happen and I lost my ship, and weeks worth of exploration data, that would probably be the end of my playtime. I'm not here to grind the same thing over again (which is why I change roles a lot), and my time is precious to me. Losing weeks worth of accomplishments would just be too much of a downer.
This is not the same thing as pvp piracy where you can lose a ship and some cargo, or some combat bonds, because in those instances players have a plethora of opportunities to "cash in" at a nearby station, measuring the risk of pressing on with those bonds or goods onhand vs the chance of being destroyed.
In exploration, you can be thousands of light years away, literally days in real-time, with no option to cut your risk by cashing in early. There are no shortcuts when you're in deep space to get back and turn in your data. The risk in exploration is just different than in trading or bounty hunting, because you're so isolated with no means of cashing out in the short term.
My suggestion would be to have a consumable drone or probe that could take data back to a station or otherwise safeguard it. Only one can be equipped, and it takes a slot in the ship. Then, the risk becomes similar to what traders and bounty hunters face: do I send that probe back now to guarantee a level of income or do I press on and try to add even more into the kitty? And if I send that probe back now but continue to explore, if I'm destroyed I'll have lost the additional data - so do I really want to send that probe now?
Just my personal opinion - I don't expect others to feel the same but there it is.
This is not the same thing as pvp piracy where you can lose a ship and some cargo, or some combat bonds, because in those instances players have a plethora of opportunities to "cash in" at a nearby station, measuring the risk of pressing on with those bonds or goods onhand vs the chance of being destroyed.
In exploration, you can be thousands of light years away, literally days in real-time, with no option to cut your risk by cashing in early. There are no shortcuts when you're in deep space to get back and turn in your data. The risk in exploration is just different than in trading or bounty hunting, because you're so isolated with no means of cashing out in the short term.
My suggestion would be to have a consumable drone or probe that could take data back to a station or otherwise safeguard it. Only one can be equipped, and it takes a slot in the ship. Then, the risk becomes similar to what traders and bounty hunters face: do I send that probe back now to guarantee a level of income or do I press on and try to add even more into the kitty? And if I send that probe back now but continue to explore, if I'm destroyed I'll have lost the additional data - so do I really want to send that probe now?
Just my personal opinion - I don't expect others to feel the same but there it is.
Ever jumped into a black hole system with a cracked canopy whilst 12000ly from civilised space ?
We can't just call into a repair shop out here you know.
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Not the first to suggest this, so the answer has been said before: problem with the "send back" drone is that, right after you send it, you can now self destruct and avoid the long returning trip. That's taking away half of the fun in exploring. That's why this, or any other "saving" method, won't be implemented. Anything that allows you to die while saving the data, will have this exploit.
Saving the data, dying/self destruct, and getting away with it, shouldn't be implemented. Ever.
Self imposed risk that.
To do that was YOUR decision, not a risk the game forced upon you.
I've been exploring, i know what you guys mean....the challenge to keep the error margin to a minimum.
But these are dangers (intentionally or unintentionally) created by the pilot, not the game or the role.
From a game point of view, exploration IS the safest role.....for now anyway, who knows what sort of stuff they're gonna throw out there in the future.
EDIT: As for the poll, keep it as it is.
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If your a trader you take risks in that you can be destroyed on jumping into a system to sell your goods. In bounty hunting you can lose all you have collected in bountys by being destroyed. Pirates are hunted down or pick the wrong target. We explorers suffer loss as does everyone else in the game. Each of the other professions spend weeks or months working to build up their fortune to get the bigger ship. Just as we do. So why should we get a safe get out of free card with a module that send back our data when we feel like heading back to habitted space? The black-box idea is the best solution and been hinted at by FD. It adds another layer to the game giving it depth. It also makes us more of a target for the pirates who could gain big time and give them credit for stars they have never been to which might seem unfair to most but who said life was fair? And out in the dark it is dog eat dog.